Mcnaughton

[danielcshea]

Does anyone here have any experience with the Macnaughton coin series? Specificly the Shilling, they use strip plank construction.

[Lewisboats]

Does anyone here have any experience with the Macnaughton coin series? Specificly the Shilling, they use strip plank construction.
They have a forum you can peruse at your leasure, and I know there have been discussions on that particular boat.

Steve

[Amos Bechtel]

There is also a new Yahoo group for the MacNaughton Coin series.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/macnaughtoncoincollection/

[PVanderwaart]

The "Coin" series boats are very different from the general run of modern sailboats. Mr. MacNaughton thinks that's good, and it may be, but it depends on how you want to use the boat. They are designed for voyaging, which means long periods living in a foreign harbor between passages on the open ocean.

The displacement of Shilling is listed as 7290 lbs. You can take that to be loaded with an average load of crew and supplies. I suppose empty hull weight is closer to 6000, or even less. A modern boat of this weight would be about 27 feet long, or more, with a lwl of 22+ feet. Shilling's lwl is 16 1/2. This means Shilling's top speed will be quite limited compared to other boats you can build from the same material in the same time. The upside is that by being short and fat, the interior volume is much easier and more comfortable to live it.

[JimD]

Here's a great site on the building of a Penny 25:

http://www.nauticalfollies.com/rollover0051.jpg

http://www.nauticalfollies.com/061227f.jpg

http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/penny.4.gif

http://www.nauticalfollies.com/

Personally, I really like these boats. Wish I had the means to build one.

[Amos Bechtel]

One thing to keep in mind about Mad Dog's "Penny" is that it has not been constructed according to plans. The following is a quote by the designer, Tom MacNaughton, concerning this particular "Penny":

"Please remember everybody that this gentleman has created a highly experimental vessel very different in many respects from the “Penny” design. It is not our design any longer and virtually all the methods he discusses on his site are unconventional and generally not advisable. For a “Coin Collection” type done about 99% the way we would have done it see Matti & Cecilia Palm’s web site on their “Crown Jewel 36” “Linnea”. They are the people to follow and imitate."

Here are Matti's web sites:

http://www.sylinnea.com/

http://www.geocities.com/mattipalm/

[Tanbark Spanker]

I here there is a 19' in the works. I like them.

[JimD]

I here there is a 19' in the works. I like them.

You would have to go and say that!:mad: :D

[paladin]

Just my initial thoughts at looking at that pik for 10 seconds...I wouldn't go offshore with it....

[JimD]

Just my initial thoughts at looking at that pik for 10 seconds...I wouldn't go offshore with it....

Why not? McNaughton seems to think they are purpose designed for offshore.

[paladin]

Jim...I was referring to the particular boat.....where the "frames" were sawn plywood.........not his design (or the the one properly constructed)...but the one that was extensively modified....

[JimD]

Jim...I was referring to the particular boat.....where the "frames" were sawn plywood.........not his design (or the the one properly constructed)...but the one that was extensively modified....

Oh :D . Yeah, what's with the sawn plywood? If they've gone to all the trouble of strip planking a hull why not laminate some decent frames?

[TR]

Yes but the "strip planking" is plywood ripped into strips!!!

Nuts....

Tad

[P.L.Lenihan]

Plywood backbone/keel? Plywood frames/ribs? Plywood strips? All stuck together with epoxy? My oh my! This fellow,"Maddog", certainly is constructing his boat in an odd or unfamiliar fashion.At least that is how it appears to me based on the books I've read.

Striking too is that I have never read nor heard of a boat built this way and actually tested and so it is rather dicey to be very critical at this early pre-launch point unless we desire to parrot what the old books tell us.

If one adds up the nay sayers versus the dreamers, I suspect the nays will win. Another talley of the dreamers versus the doers will, I again suspect, show the dreamers far out-numbering the doers.

What we see here, I humbly propose, is a rare critter indeed! "Maddog" has managed to wrestle his dream out into the real 3 dimensional world and put thought into action. Furthermore, he appears to have managed to very much keep this dream alive through something like 8 years worth of real world living. He is a doer.

This to me is the beauty and magic of his project. The technicians, the worldweary and the "experts" all have their own relatively valid observations/opinions but only one person is actually using his hot air toward the pursuit of this dream.

Thus, I think I will sit back, enjoy his progress as it occurs and look forward to the day when he launches her and begins the next stage of his dreams.

It sure beats the hell out of listening to the rabble lamenting their umpteenth dayboat boatplan purchase,agonizing over "best wood","best epoxy","best fasteners" etc,etc....yet still incapable of putting blade to wood......all for a dinghy,no less!

Sincerely,

Peter

[stumpbumper]

Well said, Peter. I have been following Maddog's odyssey for several years, eagerly awaiting each update. As you say he is a doer, and an inspiration to all us dreamers to get off our arses and build somethin'. Most of us are, however, are quiet, unasuming "rabble" who need to be more like Maddog and just do it. Your Windemere looks great.

Lynn

[JimD]

...As you say he is a doer, and an inspiration to all us dreamers to get off our arses and build somethin'...

Let's hope what he's doin' isn't building a coffin.

[P.L.Lenihan]

His money,his time,his life.No one wishes ill on another in the pursuit of their dreams, at least not while they are pursuing them. In the very worst case scenario, the most tragic of outcomes, will we not be chomping to echo the familiar" at least he died doing what he loved",or the trite,"he would have wanted to go this way."
As for coffins, I imagine there are a whole lot cheaper ones on the market, but not one as handsome as Maddogs.More power to him.

Peter

[JimD]

Any one (such as Maddog) ever do any strength tests on edge glued plywood strips? Maybe I'll try it. But I resist cutting up an otherwise perfectly good piece of 3/4 inch marine ply. Stuff's expensive.

[RonW]

Simply unbelievable, this maddog has glued together 2 pieces of 1/2 inch exterior plywood to make 1 inch x 3 inch plywood frames.
Plywood frames in of themselves is hard enough to believe, but then to go to the exstreme of using 1/2 inch exterior, is definitely the frosting on the cake.
And is it no wonder that mcnaughton wants nothing to do with it?
Plywood coffin may be more appropiate then intended.
With all the plywood and epoxy, it seems as if sometimes the wooden boat world is really degrading itself dramatically and maybe tragedely.

[George Roberts]

"His money,his time,his life.No one wishes ill on another in the pursuit of their dreams, at least not while they are pursuing them. In the very worst case scenario, the most tragic of outcomes, will we not be chomping to echo the familiar" at least he died doing what he loved",or the trite,"he would have wanted to go this way."
As for coffins, I imagine there are a whole lot cheaper ones on the market, but not one as handsome as Maddogs.More power to him."

--- until you are the one asked to rescue him. It seems foolish to incur any risk in saving the fool, but some will say we must and chastise those who refuse to.

[paladin]

He could have saved a lot of money and used vertical grain fir, laminated, had a perfectly good, strong boat......cheaper.....

[P.L.Lenihan]

[QUOTE=George Roberts--- until you are the one asked to rescue him. It seems foolish to incur any risk in saving the fool, but some will say we must and chastise those who refuse to.[/QUOTE]

More of "our" money is blown daily, in our respective countries,catering to the ridiculous needs of our public"servants"..oooops!......I mean politicians,(lunches,drivers,travel,hotels, personal assistants etc) then the if and when of a rescue call expense. At any rate,our countries have first class military/coast guard already trained to pull off a rescue should the need arise.

Only time will tell how his project goes and what his cruising will involve......he may decide to never leave the Great Lakes or the ICW for that matter :-)......and who knows, this fellow called Maddog may have an equally creative idea regarding his own self-rescue in the event of the ultimate failure(sinking).

I'll keep a wait-n-see approach while enjoying his craziness,from afar, with no real cost to me.

Peter

[rbgarr]

I read the website. He's got friends and persistence, doesn't he?? It's a shame about his friend developing the severe sensitivity to epoxy. I'm still unclear about how his deadwood/keelboats structure is supposed to work. The propellor shaft installation is 'eye-opening'. And can someone tell me what "The Big Pink" is?? Is it supposed to be a pattern for his outside ballast? I hope it isn't something structural. :confused:

[paladin]

I have not checked the website, nor am i aware of the hull construction.....but.....
Using conventionally laminated frames, and backbone...it is accepted procedure in S.E.A. to build cold moulded hulls with multiple layers of 5 ply 1/4 inch plywood or it's slightly thinner mm equivalent. The laminations are made with epoxy, sometimes vaccuum bagged, sometimes not, covered with 2-3 layers of fabric and epoxy. It results in an extremely rigid hull without oil canning.
Of course, I have never seen or heard of strip planking with plywood, which to my weak and limited structural background would seem to be self defeating....but who knows.....35 years ago we laminated veneer on baltek balsa and strip planked with it, and built cold mouldings over it...we did the same with klegecell and similar foams...they all worked to variying degrees and purposes...I think it takes an innovative mind to conceive and then put his money where his beliefs seem to be......

[Amos Bechtel]

MacNaughton specifies a strip planked hull of solid wood strips sheathed inside and out with epoxy and fiberglass. There are no conventional frames only bulkheads and other interior structure. There are also deep solid wood floors that are also sheathed. Maybe the plywood strips will work as a core if the sheathing is heavy enough, on the other hand, maybe not. I think I will follow the designer's advice. Solid wood strips are also less expensive than plywood.

[JimD]

... Solid wood strips are also less expensive than plywood.

And probably lighter, too. Glue is heavier than wood. 3/4 solid stock will likely not weigh as much as 3/4 inch ply due to all the glue lines in the ply.

[JimD]

I here there is a 19' in the works. I like them.

From the McNaughton website:

Recently it occurred to me that a 10% scale down of the Shilling would produce a really nice design. This new design will be 19'10" length on deck, 7'2" beam, 3'7" draft, and 5'7-1/2" headroom under the deck. Probably a six footer or even taller could stand in the closed hatch. However, we would probably standardize on the small pilothouse that is shown on Shilling as that would give plenty of headroom. She won't be all that big but there will be a modest galley, room for a head or fitted bucket, and two comfortable settees with fold down Concordia berths above them. I would like to build one. My wife and I would use it for sailing out so my wife could paint at the various coastal islands, while I did some writing. However this would be a fully capable small voyager. I think she could even carry a very small rigid dinghy. I really hope I can get this design done sometime soon. This design has now been commissioned!

[pippo]

I don't know, I wouldn't be that pessimistic. Look how Dudley Dix' Mini is built:

http://www.dixdesign.com/oneill4.htm

Those are TOUGH little boats, designed to cross oceans single handed at incredible speeds. DD is a very serious and reputable designer, and his designs take advantage of the evolving technology, nothing wrong with this...


Plywood frames in of themselves is hard enough to believe [...]

With all the plywood and epoxy, it seems as if sometimes the wooden boat world is really degrading itself dramatically and maybe tragedely.