18' Chesapeak Bay Sharpie

[Honda_Shadow]

I just got my plans in for the 18' Chesapeak Bay modified Sharpie Skiff from Ruel B. Parker. The plans aren't exactly what I'd call detailed, but certainly well enough for a residential architect like myself to figure out. I know there's a couple of folks out there that have built one, and I'm curious how she handles. I know it's a safe boat, but how would it be for short offshore excursions for fishing? I'm not saying I'm going to cross the atlantic in it or anything, but I don't want to be stuck in lakes and sounds either.

Mack Horton: You lived Down East, NC (Anyone who's from that area knows what "Down east" means) How would she handle going to Shackleford Banks and the like? You've got an outstanding website by the way, your boat was the decision maker for me on this boat.

Here's Mack's BEAUTIFUL example...

http://mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images%203/beached%201.jpg

[JimD]

I'd carry lots of floatation, a fast manual pump, and sort out a way to lock to CB in the down position so if you're knocked down you can haul/stand on the board, using your body weight for righting arm. Not that I know anything about these boats except that they are very pretty.

[pipefitter]

That is a beautiful boat that Mack built. It has me looking hard at Gato Negro(the 19ft Ohio pound sharpie) for the shallow waters of Tampa Bay.

[leaotis]

You guys make me blush, thanks.

The 18’ CBMS tracks like a dream. A friend and I were on Port Phillip Bay in what I guess were 14 -16kt winds, both of us were sitting on the thwarts sailing on a close reach. We averaged 5.5 kts (GPS) with my wrist resting on the tiller. I didn’t have to consciously steer. The boat just went. If there had been a little more wind and we’d hardened up, at least one of us would have been sitting on the deck and there would have been the occasional pounding with spray blowing back.

I would not hesitate to take this boat to Shackleford, Harkers Island or outside to Cape Lookout on a pretty day.

I thought about floatation but where to put it? I don’t feel there is much danger of capsize. In weather bad enough to capsize, you wouldn’t be able to bail it out anyway. I do carry several buckets though.


With all that keel running from stem to stern I had my doubts about coming about. (One of the many unfounded worries I had while building the boat.) However she tacks in a slow but dignified manner. To tack, I sheet in and slowly push the tiller to lee and drop the end of the hiking stick inside the toe rail (to prop the tiller over) so I can leisurely move to the other side of the boat. It has never failed to come about and I have never been in irons… so far.

Last weekend a friend and I were sailing when a gusty front came though. By flatting the sail with the snotter (which runs to a jam cleat on the centre board trunk) and with much luffing we made it to shore. We didn’t get there fast but we got there without being scared.

I think the boat is conservatively canvassed with only 103 sq ft of sail. I’m going to look into a removable bowsprit and jib for light airs. A taller mast and ballast would be another option but you’d compromise the easy trailering and rigging. The last time I was in light airs I simply rowed till the wind came up. During construction I pondered where to mount a small outboard but haven’t thought about it since.

Construction wise I don’t think making the hull sides from ½” ply instead of 3/8s made much difference except in weight. Adding a stringer at the water line turned out to be a very good thing. I strongly recommend adding something similar so you have a place to secure stuff.

I made the mast step adjustable fore and aft so I could fine-tune the mast rake. After a few sails I moved the step about 3/8” fwd to increase the mast rake so to create a little weather helm.

Main Sheet, Centre Board Pennant and Snotter are all 2 to 1. Centre board has 3/4 of a sauce pan of lead inside.

pic.s - http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/details.htm

[Honda_Shadow]

Jim D: You've got to understand that most folks that I've been out boating with on Bouge Sound and Shackleford had milk jugs with the tops cut off for bailing buckets, and if you didn't have wet feet, then you weren't boating; that 18' CBMS is a cadillac.

Leaotis: Until seeing yours, I was pondering building the 18' Sharpie "Idie" from the Beaufort Maritime museum. I got a ton of bad comments from the forumites about it being too much sail, or not enough freeboard, ect, ect... I still think it's a great design, after all, it worked 100 years ago, why not now? Bogue sound sure hasn't changed except maybe the shoreline... Too many rich people moving in, but that's another story... It was originally an oyster boat and it's got a bit over 200 s.f. of sail, maybe something like that to modify your rigging?

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-45081188800216_1933_770753

[JimD]

Some might say that a v-bottomed sharpie is really a skipjack:

http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/water%20line%202.jpg
















http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/flip.jpg














http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/topside%20paint/port%20aft.jpg

Lovely, however one chooses to define it.

[johnw]

Jim D: You've got to understand that most folks that I've been out boating with on Bouge Sound and Shackleford had milk jugs with the tops cut off for bailing buckets, and if you didn't have wet feet, then you weren't boating; that 18' CBMS is a cadillac.

Leaotis: Until seeing yours, I was pondering building the 18' Sharpie "Idie" from the Beaufort Maritime museum. I got a ton of bad comments from the forumites about it being too much sail, or not enough freeboard, ect, ect... I still think it's a great design, after all, it worked 100 years ago, why not now? Bogue sound sure hasn't changed except maybe the shoreline... Too many rich people moving in, but that's another story... It was originally an oyster boat and it's got a bit over 200 s.f. of sail, maybe something like that to modify your rigging?

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-45081188800216_1933_770753


I personally think people who haven't sailed flat-bottomed sharpies underestimate their stability. For their weight, length and beam, they are very stable but not terribly easily driven. They are also at their worst in light air. As a result, what looks like an overcanvassed boat by modern standards is just fine in fact. I regularly sail a 35' sharpie with more than 400 square feet of sail. The boat weighs about 2000 lb., and I take out 1,000 to 2,000 lb of passengers. The boat is stable and sails very well. When I owned a slack-bilged keel boat with almost 3000 lb of ballast and a hundred square feet less sail, she was faster, because she was more easily driven, despite the extra weight.

The gaff-rigged boat you show may have sailed with some ballast--most boats did back then. I think it's fine. I'd worry more about helm balance than stability.

V-bottomed boats have less initial stability but are more easily driven for their dimensions, so you can get away with a smaller rig.

[J. Dillon]

I built my boat along the lines of the boats in Parker's book, including the ample deadwood aft. After launching I did indeed found her too slow tacking so took off the deadwood . Now just a little skeg remains and that's just something to hang the rudder on. I also added to the sail area with a 30sqft jib which much improvedthe boats performance:) JD http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9388/carriannefromofftheport9co.jpghttp://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3584/carriannebeamshot5le.jpg

[leaotis]

Honda_Shadow (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/member.php?u=11912): I don’t think Idie has too little freeboard nor too much sail for her weight but I bet she had several reef points. I like the way R. Parker redraws those beautiful time tested sharpies making them lighter, stronger, faster and more easily used. A 4 cyc Camry wagon pulls my 18’ CBMS with no problem. The trailer does have brakes tho. BTW, Clorox bottles make better bailers than milk jugs. Gourds are the best because they don’t wear a hole in the bottom of the boat, heh.

johnw: Let see some pics of that 35' sharpie. What kind of rig? 2000# is seems very light. I’d love to sail a big Sharpie.

[johnw]

It's the Betsy D on this page:

http://www.cwb.org/BoatDatabaseSailLarge.htm

[erster]

I would never build a sharpie without foam blocks hidden all over the boat especially when sailing Down to the Nawtherd in an Nawtherd much less Downeast.;):p

[Honda_Shadow]

Erster: The plans show a bulkhead fore and aft. I was planning on making these water tight compartments for floatation, as well as storage for life jackets, flare gun, self inflating vulcanized rubber life raft... (just kidding) But hey, based on how I built my deer stand I figure I can just barely fit a plasma TV under the tiller, they just need to make one that's water resistant; of course the signal's probably gonna suck.

I also spoke with the guy at Southern Crown Boatworks about a bunch of stuff, amongst those, we spoke about MAS epoxy system. It sounded pretty good, not real cheap, but good stuff. Incidentally, when I brought your name up, he knew you right away, and I told him that you recommended him to me.

What about fiberglass? Ruel Parker suggests the Xynole Polyester for his boats; is it good stuff? Why or why not use it instead of, say 6 oz. fiberglass cloth?

[johnw]

Some nice, fat fenders stored under the side decks will help give her a little stability if she swamps.

[leaotis]

Honda_Shadow: glass adds strength, Dynel and Xynole add abrasion resistance, supposedly 10x more that glass. On my Boat’s first day out I sailed over a shallow rocky area. There was a lot of noise and the centreboard jumped up and down (don’t sit on the CB trunk in thin water) but the only was evidence was missing bottom paint.

[erster]

This is eight plus inches which gives the boat a continuous straight line of the keel from the centerboard. The boat sits upright pushed up on the beach since the entry and forefoot creates a nice six inch foot. Just curious as to how this compares to your hull Jack. I also used the yellow polypropelene rope on the edges of the centerboard for abrasion resistance and glassed over it with biaxall.


One issue with using alternatives to fiberglass is if you are unfamiliar to wetting out fabrics with epoxy. Some practice should take place ahead of doing the actuall hull, and can even be done on the centerboard.

As far as glass giving the hull strength, that really depends on the type of glass that you choose and can alter some scantlings. If its just a coatings glass, such as a finish 4 or 6 oz. cloth, not much is really gained from using it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/P5100015.jpg

[J. Dillon]

Mike,
Here's the best shot I have of the bottom. Originally I had a full skeg from the CB trunk right to the transom. I found that combined with the full external keel it made tacking slower. So I cut the skeg down as shown. Now she tracks nicely and comes about easily.

I had to strip down the bottom a couple of years ago and took this shot. JD

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7098/carreening5jpgsmalleroo0.jpg

[erster]

Thanks for that shot. On my new boat I actually cut it back a bit in height and in distance aft for a couple of reasons, one being the rudder shaft inside and the other was the issue of the typical tacking issue, which in light winds on the one pictured it does require some back winding on ocassions. I have over time gotten use to this and take it off wind for some additional power.


But another issue for me was that I trailer every one of my boats and want a good solid structure for over the road trailering transfering the stress evenly across the framing and maybe keeping the solid planks working as little as possible. The skeg is drifted along the way at intregal points to the keel inside and saddle butts. So far the combination and thought process has worked. Not one bit of problem after beating the heck out of it even dumping it off an old trailer after attempting to transfer it to a new one. The sound was worse than the results, or so shows up in paint work.;)

[johnw]

Honda, I am concerned with the balance of the rig. I think you should calculate the center of effort and the center of lateral resistance and make sure the CE isn't too far aft. If it is, there are a couple things you can do about it. The boom on the sailplan shown droops a bit. Most boats of that era have booms that are cocked up toward the stern. Shortening the leach a little and raising the boom would reduce sail area aft, and make it easier for the boom to clear your head. It will also make it less likely that the boom will trip in a wave, which is dangerous. Is there a skeg in front of the rudder? Skegs reduce manueverability a bit, but they do help you bear away when you're traveling at low speed. That's often helpful when you're coming off a dock.

[Honda_Shadow]

JohnW: Well, I would calculate the center of effort, but there's one small problem with that... I ain't got no clue 'bout buildin' nor sailin' boats. That's why I'm building the 18' Chesapeak Bay Sharpie from Ruel Parker's book. I KNOW that boat's got at least one happy owner and I'm certainly willing to take his word for it. As for the sharpie "Idie" that I posted a picture of, there's no skeg at all; it's strictly a flat bottom boat with a good size centerboard.

I'll be lofting the Chesapeak Bay Sharpie on AutoCAD from my plans and getting some dimensioned patterns for the transom, stem, rib thingies, ect... (That way I don't have to use the garage floor) I've been drawing houses for over 10 years, it's quite a different matter altogether drawing a boat, this should be interesting.

[johnw]

Well, you can figure the CLR by cutting out the profile of the underbody and balancing it on a pin. This really gives you the center of area, but people like to call it the Center of Lateral Resistance because it sounds scientific. With triangular sails, you get the center of area by drawing a line from the middle of the foot to the head, and from the clew to the middle of the luff. With quadrangular sails, go from the middle of the foot to the middle of the head and from the middle of the leach to the middle of the luff, and X marks the spot. Anyway, that's how I remember it. Again, it's really a center of area. Once you've got the center of each sail, figure the areas and draw a line between them. Figure the proportion of area between the sails and use that to figure the center between them.

Anyway, I hope I've remembered all that correctly. I recently drew up a new sail plan for one of the Center for Wooden Boats sharpies, and the NA who reviewed it liked it.

[JimD]

The illustrated explanation courtesy of Ted Brewer:


CENTER OF LATERAL PLANE (CLP): Also called CENTER OF LATERAL RESISTANCE (CLR).http://www.tedbrewer.com/imagebucket/CLPdrw.v2.gif This indicates the center of the hull's underwater area as viewed from the side. The CLP is readily found by tracing the outline of the underwater hull on paper, cutting it out, and balancing it on a pin. Some designers omit the rudder area when finding the CLP; others use 1/3 to 1/2 the rudder area.


http://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html

[JimD]

Sail area math courtesy of Jim Michalak:

http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/1aug06.htm

[J. Dillon]

Sometimes it doesn't quite work out in reality from the math and drawing board. I remember in the past they had to move the mast fwd by 18" on one of the America cup boats.:o

In my own boat above I made a temporary mast thwart and step and played with it's location to get it best with just the right weather helm. Just enough to give it "feel".:)

JD

[mizzenman]

I find this boat very beautiful:)

Question: When the stern already has a V-shape, why not let the V of the bottom continue all the way to the forefoot? That would seem easier………:confused:

[erster]

I find this boat very beautiful:)

Question: When the stern already has a V-shape, why not let the V of the bottom continue all the way to the forefoot? That would seem easier………:confused:


There are numerous ways to deal with a vee entry and bottom configuation. Most sharpies were designed for shallow waters. This created a whole new set of building issues if you maintain a tuck and contant deadrise with a vee entry. Thats another story. Most here are now building with plywood. Multiple layers glued together with epoxy creates a vee entry and shallow draft in a short distance.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/bowshotprincess22.jpg



If you are building with solid planking, this requires a technigue of either logging of staving the bow.
This is a website that shows one of the technigues employed for wood planking.
http://skipjack.net/article.cfm?StoryID=12

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/veeentryprimed.jpg


This shows a hull that maintains the constant deadrise with the vee entry and the varible beam keeping the draft to a minimum. The foot or shoe is clearly shown allowing for incredible beaching and maintaining the upright postition. These hulls are typically shallow water sailors that were also used for working in the older era of time in commercial fishing. These boats were also known as the pickup truck for many that lived on the barrier islands and had no other water to civilization on the weekends.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/paintedbottomrolloverspritsail.jpg
This is yet another way to acomplish the bow using chunks of wood and then sand the exterior down to conform with the entry.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/insideloggingrawspritsail.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/loggedbow.jpg

[Paul Pless]

This is yet another way to acomplish the bow using chunks of wood and then sand the exterior down to conform with the entry.
Mike, you ought to share with the others here what tool you use to carve that solid chunk down with. That some kinda impressive what you do with that tool freehand.:)

[JimD]

That's great, Mike. But that wasn't the question. :D The question was 'Why vee at the back yet flat at the front?'

[erster]

That's great, Mike. But that wasn't the question. :D The question was 'Why vee at the back yet flat at the front?'

The question was as follows:
why not let the V of the bottom continue all the way to the forefoot? That would seem easier………:confused:

If there is no vee in that bow, there is no oxygen in the air that you are breathing. :rolleyes: And for what its worth, thats the hardest style to create of all bottoms, keeping the same when changing the beam and rocker. Later

Its actually a concave vee.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/invertedbow.jpg

[erster]

For the ones thats just come upon this sharpie thread and inquirying, I think this thread needs this one again. This was taken at the museum and represents the traits of Ida.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/sharpiebowstem-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/roundsternsharpie.jpg

[ishmael]

Nice boat, Oyster. I think that's the first I've seen it off the building platform.

What, exactly, is a "sharpie"? I know a high length to beam ratio, usually flat bottomed, but sometimes V. Though when I lived down on the Cheasapeake people tended to call the V hulls a deadrise. The boat in in the original post looks a lot like an enlarged Cheasapeake Bay crabbing skiff. It looks aces!

Even though I'm not sure of the book definition, I know a sharpie when I see one, LOL. They really are the most boat you can get for the money. The propensity of the flat-bottomed to pound in a chop is a bit overblown if the boat is under sail. Powering into a chop they can knock your fillings loose, but under sail, with a heel, the boat is presenting the V of the chine to the waves, more than just the flat of the bottom.

Great boats.

[pipefitter]

If light air is a concern,does the same hold true for the sharpies with 2 masts? Like the small Ohio pound boat shown in Ruell Parker's book? If I recall correctly,the boat is designed to use one or 2 masts depending on what time of year or probable weather conditions.I had only read excerpts online somewhere and have yet to get to that section in the book. I don't recall if it specifically addresses the differences at great length. I am sure this is mentioned in other books or that many here may even have direct experience with such.

[erster]

Ish, I hope you are doing well. The boat is two years old this May. If I made an attempt to define either term, Sharpie, or SKipjack, I would propably be called on it as being ignut.;) Over time there has been so many builders that have changed ratios and configuations of sails and even bottoms, that the words really have no concrete meaning as far as I can pinpoint that would stand up under scrutiny by so many "authorites" on the two types of hulls.;) Pipefitter, I cannot tell you the difference. Maybe someone with some time on both will add to the discussion.

[JimD]

Erster, ok, fair enough, I stand corrected - at least literally. I interpreted the question to mean why so much vee at the stern but have the dead rise diminish to almost nada at the bow:

http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/side%20templates.jpg
















http://www.mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/chine%20shear%20stem.jpg

Edited to add: To answer my own question (I think I sorta asked a question in there somewhere :o ) I suppose if you deepened the vee at the bow there would be no reason to make the boat 'sharp' and it wouldn't be a sharpie any longer.

[erster]

Jim I think there was a couple of discussions taking place. I believe you brought up the issue of the Skipjack which also brought about part of my detailed response. If that is what he meant, then I stand corrected. He ask about carrying the vee all the way foward. I think we have several offshoots here, which is noted from the original posting, which you referenced as being a skipjack which my hull is more in tuned to, and Jack is a blend, or so it appears from the angle shot. I also think that from a novice point of view, the flat bottom, which I surely would tag on the bay sharpie, is easier to build.

[Philip Maynard]

Question: When the stern already has a V-shape, why not let the V of the bottom continue all the way to the forefoot? That would seem easier.

Yes it is once you have the vee through most of the hull. That is what Mack's 18 sharpie has, with the vee angle fairly constant from amidships to the bow. It's hard to see that in his photographs. What erster is showing is very different and more difficult - a twist as opposed to constant deadrise.

[erster]

Question: When the stern already has a V-shape, why not let the V of the bottom continue all the way to the forefoot? That would seem easier.

Yes it is once you have the vee through most of the hull. That is what Mack's 18 sharpie has, with the vee angle fairly constant from amidships to the bow. It's hard to see that in his photographs. What erster is showing is very different and more difficult - a twist as opposed to constant deadrise.


The problem is when you use sheet plywood, unless its thin plywood is making it twist into a vee in the bow. The boat may have an inch of vee across the foward most bulkhead. But I see the bow as being flat in the bay sharpie, especially when you look at the chine batten shot.. The boat surely has enough rocker in it to create a small vee in the bow. The B&B designs do a pretty good job in creating a small vee shallow craft hull. But as you can see, the bow requires some additional work which is not that much but makes the boat an entirely different hull.


The "twist" that you see is created by the short transfer of the vee actually turning the short chop away. If you view the hull up close, it really looks flat until you scan it from a distance. This allows for these hulls to sail in some form of correct direction across sandbars in almost no water as long as about six inches of board can be held down. Twelve inches of water on low tide with people in the boat gives many power skiff folks fishing for their favorite drum in some areas a fit with confussion.:)


http://mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/knees%20in.jpg

http://mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/chine%20shear%20stem.jpg

[JimD]

Here are similar lines for an Atkin design, the 20.5' Jaqueline:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/Jaquelin-3.gif
And text regarding the deadrise:

...the deadrise increases from bow to stern. The advantages of this are: there is a nice tuck-up in the after buttock lines permitting easy water flow along the bottom when the boat is heeled down; the bottom is very easy to frame and plank because there are no violent twists to overcome; there are no acute angles forward at the chine corners;

Plans also call for about 1,000#s inside ballast.

[erster]

Jim, you are addressing a vee in the tuck of a flat bottom boat in that example. But even with that example, you have not addressed or Adtkins is not addressing the contrasting sailing characteristics with a vee hull hardchine hull, or even a round bilge boat and the nature of a flat bottom under sail which is represented by your example and the bay sharpie. Also your example is a long ways from a simple day sailor as the bay sharpie and any other example that is represented in this thread.I cannot speak for the designer, and you maybe addressing the comment, as you see it, but I have an opinion that there are reasons for the design of the bay sharpie bottom that has nothing to do with sailing characteristics either. I addressed this several times and while I feel there are advantages and disadvatages to both, down the road a vee hull or deadrise hull runing the complete length carries numerous advantages in the large hulls such as a 20 footer.

The original hull is just not a skipjack, as you have called it, or defined by most people But then again as I typed in another post above, the finelines of differing descriptions of the two seems to get lost in most generic conversations today. So call it whatever you wish. But this boat is a flat bottom hull as is your presented example above, that sails a bit different than a hard chine shallow draft hull with any amount of deadrise that runs throughout the length of the hull.

This is a perceived easier hull to build, even with the tuck, since you have the longer distance to bend thicker sheets of plywood in the aft section than you would creating any substantial vee in the bow. There maybe some others that come into play, one biggy being most efficent use of a minimum amount of plywood, too. Many plans figure around this sometime keeping in mind ending up with the least amount of waste when you are done. I understand that this is an offshoot but may indeed come into play in some hulls.

A common misconception with newcomers is flat bottom boats are easier to build. I say given some thought time by the same, and upon further review, its no harder to build and a much better hull long term even in small craft that any flat bottom boat on the water. Of course thats my opinion.;)

[JimD]

I didn't have any specific point in mind with the Atkin design except to throw it out there because the hull has considerable deadrise aft diminishing to little to none forward which seemed to relate to the thread. Personally I've never built a flat bottom boat. They have all been typical vee bottoms with increased deadrise at the bow, presumably for finer entry. More like this:
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOats-3.gif
Easy to build in plywood, too. But a very different kind of boat. Anyhoo, when I first commented in this thread I hadn't realized the CB Sharpie had any appreciable vee forward. It was hard to tell from the photos.

[Honda_Shadow]

JimD: That last picture you posted has got some nice lines, what design is that? Is it an Atkin's as well? (Just curious)

[JimD]

JimD: That last picture you posted has got some nice lines, what design is that? Is it an Atkin's as well? (Just curious)

Yes, a very simple 18 footer, Wild Onion:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-1.gif
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/WildOnion.html

[mizzenman]

Well thanks for sharing your knowledge guys;)

leaotis, That Billy Budd looks cool too. What design is it, does there exist a web-page on her?

[leaotis]

Billy Budd was built by an experienced amateur boat builder and is his own design based on several Crabbing Skiff designs. Billy Budd carries a lot more sail than Tempo, has a deeper draft and carries about 130kg of lead ballast inside. BB is also 18' but a little wider and, I hate to say this but BB is... slightly faster.

as far as I know there is no info on this boat on the web.

[Honda_Shadow]

Leotis:
I hope you don't mind me kind of going off of your boat as an example for my own build, but you've done such a great job. You posted new pictures of details on your site and I actually cussed at my computer because my printer's color cartridge ran out of ink... This weekend I'm gonna be using AutoCAD to lay out dimensioned drawings of all it's parts, I noticed that you didn't go exactly per plan on your seating arrangement; was that to be able to get in behind the aft bulkhead? I also thought I'd ask if there's anything you'd change about the thing since you've sailed it a while now.

[Dan St. Gean]

I've often thought of building a sharpie from Parker's book especially since his book give general construction details and a table of offsets. I actually lofted the 36' New Haven sharpie and a neighbor started a build on the same boat. Tough set of circumstances saw the boat cut up, but I always thought the smaller boats would be fun camp cruisers. The BandB boat are great as well and Graham's new 22' boat being built for the Watertribe race he won last year in his 17' boat of similar design. Anyhow, sharpies are seemingly perfect for a lot of the camp cruising and daysailing I aspire to do. I also am conflicted by the love of multihulls and am building a new rig for my Gary Dierking designed Ulua. So many designs...

[leaotis]

Mr. _Shadow: I'm flattered that you would want to use my boat as a guide. I had many ideas about seating but the aft thwart went in simply because I couldn't make up my mind and I wanted to go sailing. The thwart will fit on either the upper or lower stringer anywhere in between the aft bulkhead and the next knees. I found it most comfortable on the lower position, and yes it does allow better access to the area under the aft deck. Trim wise it's best not to sit too far aft in less you have some weight fwd.I raised the hull @ 1.5" which may not have been necessary.

The shear came from a day at the beach with my then girlfriend. She had been laying on her side on the sand. When she got up, I laid a yardstick longwise across the imprint she had left in the sand and divided the space in between her waist and knees to get 5 stations. Then measured from the yard stick down to the sand. These ratios were transferred to the lofting board and became the shear.

As for what I'd change.... I'd spend more time shaping the rudder to a foil shape (as Reuel suggest) and mount the centre board further aft in the trunk to reduce the turbulence caused by many liters of water being scooped up by the gap in between the back of the back of the CB and the trunk.

Cheers, Mack

[johnw]

You can solve the problem of water burbling up the back of the trunk by raking the back of the trunk forward.

[leaotis]

The back of the trunk is raked but perhaps not enough. Maybe I can glue a block up there or something. I really want to go faster than Billy Budd.

[Honda_Shadow]

Leotis:
That figures... The most pressing problems in artistically designing anything can always be solved by an in depth scientific study of the female body. In this process however, one must always be cautious not to be doing anything important at the time, say, like driving; to avoid such catastrophies as driving your car up a building. One must also be cautious not to allow the present company of a "significant other" notice this study of form in other specimens, so as to avoid her driving a car up you. And if this "then girlfriend" is not a significant other any more, then you can certainly get away with calling your boat "The Other Bitch." (If you married her, understand I'm just joking!)

[erster]

The back of the trunk is raked but perhaps not enough. Maybe I can glue a block up there or something. I really want to go faster than Billy Budd.
Change the centerboard shape at the bottom and on the aft side of your existing board, and install a wedge to the slotted width in the aft section if you can access it. The change maybe or quite possible be required if you do not have the clearance inside now when it pivots down. Your rake is to straight up, partially to blame and add that to the positioning with the flat bottom, the angle under sail is catching the water. I would add a bit more of a curve to the bottom slot and bottom of the centerboard trunk, which may change the bottom lofting lines. But you can address this on the jig by forcing the keel up with a small wedge between the keel and the jig.
http://mackhorton.com/Sharpie%20web/images/glueing%20sides.jpg

Of course, this is changing some of the bottom to more of a vee in that area. Just a thought.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00850.jpg

[erster]

This was another solution that seems to work well in deep water when it gets sloppy and I get some up the aft end when sailing. I made a small piece of wood with two size strips that fit nicely into the slot. The top piece which is wider with a narrower one glued to the bottom of it for good measure. Its really dry and is held in place by a small bungie that rides across the top of the slot and the aft section just wedges in place between the added pieces that the centerboard pin rests on protecting the cap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/PB190013-1.jpg

[Honda_Shadow]

Here's a general opinion question on design as I'm drawing the boat this weekend...

Option #1:
Since it's always a good idea to have a bilge pump on board, what if I designed a manual bilge pump to be attached to the rear of the centerboard trunk; I would then drill a hole through the width of the keelson (and line it with pvc) to be able to draw water from either side of the keelson and at the lowest point of the boat, the water would then be dumped inside the centerboard trunk to sea. Everything in the design would be hidden from sight within the woodwork except for the handle of the bilge pump when in use.

Option #2:
Put a bilge pump under the seat.

I've got a NASTY habit of overcomplicating things, and this is probably one of them, but I just wanted folks' opinions. (Incidentally, the last time I over complicated things, I designed and built a deer stand based on North Carolina Residential Building Codes complete with carpeting and mobile home sand anchors...)

[JimD]

Somethin tells me your boat might come in a bit overweight :D. Just kidding.

[J. Dillon]

I'm guilty of over engineering things but when it comes time to get water out of the open boats like those above, there is nothing like a bailing piggin now made from old cut up plastaic bottles. Now for some serious bailing like when your open boat is unattended during a heavy all day rain I beleive in power. My 18 footer"Carrianne" when at the dock has Rule pump that cycles on every 5 minutes or so and if there is any water aboard .... out it goes.:D

JD

[erster]

I'm guilty of over engineering things but when it comes time to get water out of the open boats like those above, there is nothing like a bailing piggin now made from old cut up plastaic bottles. Now for some serious bailing like when your open boat is unattended during a heavy all day rain I beleive in power. My 18 footer"Carrianne" when at the dock has Rule pump that cycles on every 5 minutes or so and if there is any water aboard .... out it goes.:D

JD

Speaking of over engineering, I have a simular rig for my bailing too. But when my bailer is not bailing sea or rain water, it also doubles as another type of bailer in the form of a "his" head and my motor well is a "her" head, or so I tell the guests if there is some question by prospective guests. :D :D

Of course I adhere to the prohibited pumping in coastal waters or inland waters. I keep the valves shut[black screw on lid and dummy block] on the hers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00923.jpg

[Honda_Shadow]

Erster:
That's an interesting system, but would make it quite difficult to tack if someone's in the process of chumming. :D

[mizzenman]

Iordered The Sharpie Book today. looking forvard to reading it :cool:

[Honda_Shadow]

Well, I've been lofting the boat all Saturday on AutoCAD and I spent most of the day trying to figure out a "glitch" in Parker's drawing of the full size and shape of the transom. When I projected for true size, true shape, my transom was coming up 0-0-7 smaller on both the top and bottom. Later, it was realized that he drew his transom on the plans that much larger to allow a bevel at the top and bottom due to the rake in the transom. DUH!

My next question is this... The Chine logs are 1x2 and he states that the tops should be beveled level so as to allow drainage. (creating a parallelogram in cross section) Is this REALLY necessary on a 3/4" thick piece of lumber? I mean, the bevel would have to be different at each station. How is that done anyway? Scarf the log together, then use a plane to make a rolling, gradual bevel between the stations?

Here's a few pictures...

http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.1&disp=emb&view=att&th=1108d738e48a45e0

http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.2&disp=emb&view=att&th=1108d738e48a45e0
http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.3&disp=emb&view=att&th=1108d738e48a45e0
http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.5&disp=emb&view=att&th=1108d738e48a45e0
http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.4&disp=emb&view=att&th=1108d738e48a45e0

[leaotis]

I carefully levelled the top of the chine using a 4” angle grinder after the sides were glued on. Chine near knees didn’t get levelled. I then filleted chine/hull joint which filled low areas near knees so there’s no place for water to stand.

[Honda_Shadow]

Groovy... I knew there had to be an easier way.

[pipefitter]

Why not just cut it beforehand to the maximum bevel? It would just create more of a fall away on the less angled stations to nearly level at the ones with the most angle. This would lend for water that may hit the chine logs on the higher ends to fall away before it runs to the low points.

[JimD]

A nice cat ketch from Jay Benford:

http://www.benford.us/images/header-scp.gif18' Cat Ketch http://www.benford.us/images/clear.gif
Design Number 204
1982

http://www.benford.us/images/clear.gifhttp://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-sailplan.gif (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-sailplan-large.gif', 472, 600, '18 Cat Ketch Sailplan'))This design followed the 16' Sailing Tender (http://www.benford.us/scp/16tender.html) by several years. During this interval, I'd had quite a bit of experience with the 16-footer as we looked after her for ten to eleven months a year. This experience with Conch Ad Libitum led to a number of thoughts and ideas on how she could be changed and/or improved.

The commission for the 18' Cat Ketch came from a client wanting to try out sailing a cat ketch on a smaller scale before owning a larger cruising boat with the same rig. He felt that this would give him useful experience and knowledge about how to sail a cat ketch and confirm his desire to own a larger one.

http://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-plan.gif (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-plan-large.gif', 800, 308, '18 Cat Ketch Plan'))http://www.benford.us/images/clear.gifIn creating her, we knew that she was to be sailed off a trailer. Reduced structural weights would make this easier to do, and make her more lively to sail. We also decided to increase her sail area, based on our experience with the 16-footer. We came to realize that most all the sailing of a small pleasure craft was in lighter wind conditions, rather than thrashing through heavy weather. More sail area would make her more fun to sail, and we've done that with the 18-footer

http://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-pq.jpg (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-pq-large.jpg', 800, 582, '18 Cat Ketch'))
We've also given her a longer foredeck. This will provide shelter for bagged camping gear and a place for kids to hide from the weather. We've kept the cockpits more open, making more room for camping aboard. There is only one rowing position, well aft where the helmsman could row. Another position could be added forward, but this would mean adding another thwart, taking away from the open layout.

http://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-pb.jpg (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-pb-large.jpg', 734, 600, '18 Cat Ketch'))http://www.benford.us/images/clear.gifhttp://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-sb.jpg (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-sb-large.jpg', 800, 561, '18 Cat Ketch'))
For a heavier duty version of this boat, I would suggest adding 1/8" to the plywood thickness of the hull and deck. This will add about 150 to 200 pounds to her structure. A heavier boat will carry her way better through some conditions, but I would not recommend doing this unless your usage calls for a very rugged boat.

http://www.benford.us/images/clear.gifhttp://www.benford.us/images/scp-18catketch-dock.jpg (javascript:Start('../images/scp-18catketch-dock-large.jpg', 665, 600, '18 Cat Ketch at Dock'))The photos on this page show Dr. Jerry Limbers' 18' Cat Ketch built as preparation for the 34' Sailing Dory (http://www.benford.us/dories/34.html) he now has under construction.

Particulars:ImperialMetricLength overall18'-0"5.49 mLength datum waterline16'-0"4.88 mBeam6'-0"1.83 mDraft0'-8"/4'-6"0.20/1.37 mFreeboard:Forward2'-6"0.76 mLeast1'-6"0.46 mAft2'-0”0.61 mEstimated structural weight200 lbs.91 kg.Displacement, to DWL800 lbs.364 kg.Displacement-length ratio87 Sail area155 sq. ft.14.4 m2Sail area-displacement ratio28.78 Prismatic coefficient.567 Pounds per inch immersion280 Entrance half-angle22°

[Osborne Russell]

Nice boat except for the 6 foot long, 21 inch wide daggerboard that gives her a draft of four and a half feet.

[mizzenman]

So Honda, how is the build going, any pix coming soon?
I’m headed out to the garage now to clear the building space. I’m going for a slightly modified design with a “skipjack bow”.

[katiedobe]

Great discussion guys.
I like the Atkin design, Jacqueline.
Might have to build it since it is the name of my wife, and she liked the drawing.

[Bill Perkins]

Getting back to that branch of navel architecture based on the female form : check out MMD s Avatar . The man is obviously contemplating a female nude while trying to get a start on his next commission !