construction in dry climate?

[larry wave]

Living in central california(3000 ft, very dry) I've been wondering about the feasability of building traditionally, solid wood ,lapstrake without epoxy. A friend of mine has a lumber yard at the old North Fork mill site and deals exlusivly with reclaimed lumber, except for a few huge red cedar beams logged about twelve years ago. I've been drooling over that cedar for a few years now ( 25tf long 17'' by 24'' clear vg on wide face tight:eek: ) Would building a trailered boat,maybe coquina, with cedar in this climate be feasable? My concerns are temperture varience and lack of humidity- winter =20deg at night 65 at day-summer 60 at night 105 at day. The boat would be on a trailer in the winter. Seems like it would be tough to minimize wood movement in this climate. I've used epoxy alot( boat yard s. Cal) in in the past and would like to try to build a boat with out it. Any comments?

[larry wave]

Thanks for the response. Sorry it took so long for me to reply- became an uncle yesterday! One of the reasons I posed the question was from watching what Santa Ana conditions have done to my boat( 1944 Angle man ketch). Planking is Honduras mahogony and it loves to leak just above the water line after a good Santa Ana. Granted, Santa Ana's are prety extreme conditions. It dosen't get quite that dry up here but it is close at times. Also wondering if anyone has any experience with incence cedar. It's very common up here, but mostly is used for firewood. I have never heard of it being used for planking, mostly I assume becase it is difficult to find clear lenghts free of "peck". I was wondering since I have access to some trees that have been dead and standing for about 50 years. Its amazing how long they have stood sine the last fire went through. There must be some info on this somewhere.I guess I don't want to cut them unless I know I can use them( they are the tallest trees on the property and the prefered hangout for the hawks and falcons).Thanks again for the reply. Oh yeah, found an interesting articale on on wood movement in the Dec issue of Fine Wood Working(it's another insperation for my original question) about seasonal moisture content change relative to location in the U.S.

[J P]

20+ years ago I cut a lot of incense cedar in Plumas county. Mostly for split fence rails and posts. What wasn't suitable for that got cut into firewood. I still have a couple chunks stashed away for guitar tops. I wish I had kept more of it, it's nice wood to work with.

Do you have experience falling big snags? It's dangerous. Those cedars are often hollow in the middle making it difficult to set up a reliable hinge. The wood is brittle, limbs and tops can snap off with just a little movement or vibration, for example, from driving a wedge. The bole will often bust on impact with the ground, (which as a rail splitter, I thought was pretty handy) and compression fractures across the grain are common. They are often full of ants. One time I started my falling cuts on a large snag to discover it was full of bees. I couldn't leave it because I had created a hazard with my initial cuts. Ended up dropping another tree into it to bring it down and came back a few days later when the bees had simmered down. Anymore, I would be inclined to leave them for the wildlife. I'm not sure how one might determine if there is pecky rot in a standing tree. Some have it, some don't, and some only have it in small areas. If there are some candidates that you really think might be suitable for your needs maybe you could take some core samples.

[larry wave]

No, I have no experiance felling snags, but I wouldn't mind getting some. On the other hand, I dont want to waste good habitat. So thanks for the advise, I really hadn't considerd some of the things you mentioned. I' ve split some for posts and had some milled for interior paneling. The stuff I had milled was from trees that had been down for 50 years covered in brush. Many of the logs already had all the sap wood off and no peck. I had it milled to three quarters and put it up right away thinking that after fifty years it would be settled. I was wrong. Some of the tounge and grove opened all the way up and a few pieces were worse than that. After that long on the ground it may not be stable, but it proved to be very rot resistant. It may have still been wet from the winter snow when it was milled which would account for all the movement. Anyhow thanks for the reply, it givs me more to consider. Not sure where Plumus county is, but this stuff is in Fresno county right around Shaver Lake, on an in-laws property. Oh yeah, these relatives are trying to decide between buying a Lucas Mill and an old mobil dimensional mill. I think they are leaning towards a Lucas right now. Anyone out there have an opinion on these two mills. I've only seen a mobil dimension mill at work. It made a lot saw dust.

[Bob Smalser]

Here's the sawmill thread:

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1425050#post1425050

A Lucas or Peterson would be the most versatile for your logs and use. Dimension mills are for fast and rough framing lumber from big logs.

[J P]

larry wave, good on you for considering the habitat.

Achieving wood "stability" is a moving target. If you are re-sawing old timbers or salvaged logs you might want to devise a way to initially saturate the mill product and then dry it down.

Plumas county is in NE CA, up by Mt. Lassen.

[larry wave]

Thanks for the info. We'll probably experiment with some of the stuff thats already down this coming summer. The relatives that own the property are doing some really innovative stuff clearing and replanting the property. Much of it was covered in white thorne after the fire, and impossible to move through. They masticated what they could get to and pulled the roots with an okie engineried minature backho. I shouldn't really call it "okie" engineried, as it worked really well. This property has an A1 rating from the forest service- which I think means it has lots of water and trees grow very well on it. Anyhow, the forest sevice has really been interested in there clearing method, mostly I think because they are having to do very little burning after all the masticating.You would have to see the size and density of the brush to appreciate this process. The forest service has givin them thousands of one and two year old saplings to plant, besides the thousands that my in-laws have grown in there own nursery. Anyhow, I trailed way off here. I was trying to get to another question about planting coastal fir and other softwooods in a non native invironment. But I'll put that in another thread on another day. Thanks for the mill thread link Bob. I always enjoy your threads.I appoligize for the spelling and long trail offs. New to this, so still tring to figure out the ettiqute.