Been Working

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ahhh topside air is so clean and fresh , been down in the bilge too long.

Trying to get Dove ready for the spring ( feels a lot like spring today ) and learning at the hands of a skilled shipwright. It has been like a little apprenticeship, I'm learning things I never knew from basic tool use and carpentry to the intricacies of the proper way to do boat work. Eric is as skilled a teacher as he is wood worker. So I have been logging some shop time with Eric, my shipwright. He keeps telling me Dove is going to look beautiful come spring, but he keeps taking her apart :( . I half believe he is part of some woodenboat destruction society sort of the opposite of OEX woodenboat rescue. Every time I ask when can I start looking at topside paint he says well lets just take look under here and of course we have to remove some part of the boat.

Some serious archeology has happened from this deconstruction. Eric believes that the planking is not cedar but clear pine, which kinda was a bummer cause the plans call for cedar, but she is well planked and no rot what so ever. The frames are oak. We removed the garboards to clean the edges and plug the existing screw holes to ready her for refastening and seam shim and re-calking, The screws along the bottom of the garboard were not in the wood they were screwed between the top of the floor plank and the top of the edge plank :eek: no wonder she sprung so easy. It would be hard to hit the screws in such a wrong place if you tried. So what would a Joe post be without some photos.

Pine planking not cedar as the plans indicated.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid179/pd7998362cf0edb98b85857edd2aba912/f30f3a75.jpg

Removing bungs on the garboard, each screw has its own private war with me.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p5624db7213100f1829e8ad23ca77df99/f09e1f37.jpg

Garboard's removed

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p4b29d4645168da0a0337e1f6eee05593/f09e1fa0.jpg

Think she will float on her lines ??????

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p93b5cd53d674d09688dae48e84adb2c4/f09e1f56.jpg

Eric wanted to remove this stem piece to check for rot. He thought because of the gap and the coloring there may be rot under it. So we had to remove the through bolts and the forward mast step.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pe614b81f440a0bfcef029d17042e6a91/f09e1ebe.jpg

So after all this work

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p55260bb35b5cd6399b8cdbedf5269959/f09e1ed2.jpg

The stem and everything around it was in perfect condition no rot at all. See I told ya Eric just want to take the boat apart. But he assures me the pendulum has finally swung as far as it can go deconstructing the boat, now we move to building. First thing we are doing is fairing the deck and prepping it for Dynell and epoxy. Then the coaming and rub-rail are put back. Then the garboars are finished and calked. She will be wet come April. I hope

[ 01-12-2006, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Keith Wilson]

Very cool! Nothin' wrong with good pine, BTW. Bill Atkin turned out one plan a month for MotorBoating Magazine for years (and got paid damned little for it) and I'm sure he didn't have time to think too hard about alternate kinds of wood. He was a reasonable fellow, and I'm sure if you could ask him he'd say something like, "Well, she lasted this long; must be OK."

Although the process of destruction looks alarming, just think how good it will feel out on the river, knowing there’s no rot in the stem and the garboards are screwed on like they should be.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

You look like one of Santa's elves in that toque Joe... :D

Like I told you, that will be a GREAT boat when you're done. ;) ;) ;)

[dmede]

Very cool. Keep the updates coming.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Thanks Joe.
Great photos. :cool:

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine:
You look like one of Santa's elves in that toque Joe... :D

Like I told you, that will be a GREAT boat when you're done.Yea it's kinda hard to see her finished. Phil was kind enough to work on some of the scroll gold leaf filigree for the bow. Tell me which one suits your fancy ? We have agreed on the topsides, Kirby dark blue with a white boot stripe and red bottom paint.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p4315e8db98026bd452a04a954773e7d2/f09a38a2.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pa571e73a5ce8975cda77ceb81f6c7d9f/f09a3879.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pf1cc9936c6e2a31549c904385ac7d629/f09a383e.jpg

I cant wait until we get to the pretty parts ;)
Im good at pretty :D

[ 01-12-2006, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[dmede]

One or two. The third option doesn't suit her, too fancy for such rugged looking boat.

[Keith Wilson]

All three are too fancy IMHO. She's not a fancy boat; just a sailing dory. A simple line, possibly a little nearer the sheer, with maybe just a litle doodad at each end would be fine, but not all that gingerbread. The colors are great! It's hard to go wrong with Kirbys, except the pink.

[ 01-13-2006, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[FSS172]

Totally agree with Keith. What a pretty boat. Hope to bring my Friendship up your river someday; will keep a lookout for you.

[Russ Manheimer]

Joe,

I agree with Keith, fresh paint will do just fine. That deep sheer is accent enough.

With respect to the decks, are you going to add a layer of ply to the deck before applying the Dynel and epoxy?. It looks the decks been ground down before as you can see the wood above the groove is less than below. This will help prevent the deck from moving too much and spliting the Dynel.

Alternatively, have you considered a traditional canvas deck? Since there is little deck area to begin with it would be an easy job and in keeping with her age and style.

Great to see some progress. You have a real winner there.

Russ

[Brian Palmer]

Good to see some progress and look forward to see pics on the water.

Wasn't there some recent discussion about dynel over tongue and groove decking (or was it fiberglass?) that indicated canvas may be a better fit?

Just wondering,

Brian

[Ken Hutchins]

Are'nt you 'sposed to be selling houses? :confused: The boat sure does look good and soon to look better. smile.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

In regards to the fancy scroll work. I remain undecided as yet myself. But you should all know that although Atkins Active III has a work boat dory origin Akins yachted her up quite a bit. She is much more of a refined daysailer with fine lines than a humble working fishing dory. She was designed from a simple dory hull but the details are pure yacht aesthetic. Like the scroll work or the tiller and the fancy bronze rigging and the note on the plans that Louis Larson of NYC should make the sails, Larson was the premier yacht sail loft for all the high end City Island & NYYC set. This Atkins deserves a nautical blue hull and taupe deck, with a white boot-stripe and some gold leaf along the sheer. She will have mahogany thwarts some with little storage draws with nice knobs . Some of the side thwarts fold up with bronze hardware and comfy sewn cushions. When she is completed she will be the prettiest dory at the dance.

As for the sheerline detail I originally wanted a simple graphic dove terminal at the bow. Kinda like a Hinkley or a Concordia Something simple and small. I kinda worked with the Dove™ soap logo, I know :rolleyes: but I thought it looked appropriate.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p778690716ac6d9fb550689151a0cb04a/f098e382.jpg

Small little dove at the bow end of a gold pinstripe along the sheer. what do ya think of that ?

[ 01-13-2006, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[dmede]

I like the idea, but see if you can find a less commercial looking dove sample. You'll hate it the first time someone makes the connection.

Gotta be some graphic artists on the forum who can help.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

dmede to be honest I kinda like the pop advertising reference I'm weird that way ;) But I'm not 100% it's the correct look. Thats why Phil did his magic ;) Oh and we have a loooong way to go before we are at that detail, so it may just come to me by then ;)

[ 01-13-2006, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[dmede]

well it certainly doesn't look bad and you have a lot of time to work it out. Thats going to be a lovely boat, I'm a big fan of the Atkin's designs. My next project is an Atkin skiff. And then on to an Atkins inboard perhaps! I could spend a lifetime building just thier boats.

Keep pluggin ahead, I want to see pictures of her all done and on the water this spring smile.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

So spent some more time working on Dove today. One problem we are addressing before we put the garboard back on is the sawn oak frames. They are three pieces with small screwed gussets on only one side. So we are removing the small gussets and replacing them with 1/2" marine ply on ether side then through bolted. The ply will have a longer " webbing" .
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pca4be93a670e3714a8c712953599cf41/f097e799.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p38fdbbbbb1c67011cddf552cfa67e52c/f097e7bb.jpg

Lot's of scraping and sanding later

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p59dc07ee29bf525a865804a4fa9ed0b6/f097e7dc.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/p5cdd3bece1c0684e83c89c95f000b308/f097e7fe.jpg

Next the "webbed" plywood.......

[ 01-13-2006, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Jagermeister]

Joe, any particular reason with choosing plywood rather than solid wood for the new gussets?

I'm certainly no expert on this area, but my limited experience with removing parts from my 59 year old boat leads to to think plywood holds up less well than solid wood. The plywood knees and seat supports that I removed seemed far more deteriorated than any of the parts sawn from solid plank.

Just a thought.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Strength and not having to deal with grain direction and splitting.

[Donn]

:confused: Doesn't plywood move at different rates and in different directions when going through wet-dry cycles like a winter on the hard?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Donn:
:confused: Doesn't plywood move at different rates and in different directions when going through wet-dry cycles like a winter on the hard?I'm working on the sound advice of a competent shipwright who recommends : epoxy encapsulated, through bolted 1/2" marine ply. It will act only as a gusset and it will be much larger going up and across. Also on both sides, as opposed to the small current one sided small gusset that is limited to size and strength due to grain direction. That was not working by the way. They cracked and provided very little structural support. The frames were slopping around and pulling the whole boat out of whack.

[ 01-13-2006, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[FSS172]

Joe - I like the idea of a small dove leading a cove stripe a lot. It's a fitting design motif and would be expecially classy if carved - which would also help disassociate the shape from the flat graphic of the commercial trademark. For your consideration, I took the liberty of modifying your graphic in a way that, to my eye at least, gets even farther away from the product logo, fits in more with the horizontal line of the sheer and cove, and gives more of an impression of speed. See what you think.
http://www.dickinson.edu/departments/drama/public/dove.jpg Jim

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

FSS172 I love it thank you. Can you possibly email me the image so I can make a template.

Thanks
Joe

[FSS172]

Thanks Joe, that's done. Look for it in your inbox. Jim

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Got it, thanks Jim

[Bill Perkins]

Joe ; MMD had an interesting post that relates to drawing the boottop stripe .

web page (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=010516&p=)

To summarize , you curve the ends of the line up very slightly , twice as much in the bow as in the stern . This is to counteract an optical illusion which makes the straight line look like it's dropping at the ends . I see this in your drawings .Maybe a 1/4 in. lift at the bow , and 1/8th in. at the stern would be worth a try .

He also suggest the painted waterline be held 2 in. above the actual waterline so scum doesn't discolor the boottop stripe . I would think this would be especially important when using white .

[ 01-13-2006, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[Dave Fleming]

Dhowman, you gonna update those photos showing how the hull is shored and braced for all this repair work?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Tomorrow full photo disclosure ;)

[OEX]

Destruction is fun too (OEX WBRF) smile.gif I'm up to my ass in it.

I go for the middle scroll and no dove. Ever think of setting the sheer off with a rub/whale strake or sorts---seems the type of boat that would look nice that way. Maybe finished bright?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by OEX:
Destruction is fun too (OEX WBRF) smile.gif I'm up to my ass in it.

I go for the middle scroll and no dove. Ever think of setting the sheer off with a rub/whale strake or sorts---seems the type of boat that would look nice that way. Maybe finished bright?There is a nice bright rubrail with a 1/2 round brass on top of the rubrail. It will look stunning. But alas they have been removed like many things else during the restoration. :rolleyes:

[Dave Fleming]

The blazes with the aesthetics at this point.

Lets get that boat repaired/restored correctly and, THEN you can tart it out like a Doge's Barge.
If that is what you want. :rolleyes:

Remember Dhowman, the axiom...repair/restoration costs many times more than building anew.

Focus Focus Focus, if ya get my drift.

[OEX]

like this?
http://www.woodenboatrescue.org/image.php?Id=521

I like her, she'll be great however you go at it. great color too.

[OEX]

If money and time run out and can't keep you going; fuel yourself with dreams!

DREAM and work. Dream and work.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

O&O West the vision of aesthetics keeps me working repair/restoration. When my knees are in the bilge scraping crud and calking seams, and removing rotten wood, it's the vision of topside paint and fancy scroll work that keeps me going :D

[ 01-17-2006, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[OEX]

Joe your welcome to start a restoration log on the WBRF site...it may be easier for dial up people to see it as it grows, and it will stay in one place. Also it does not run the risk of this server lossing it as it lost many threads in the past. Just an idea. All you have to do is send me e-mails with text and pix separate, let me know where to put the pix and I will get them up.
Like these if you have not seen the4m yet. LOGS (http://www.woodenboatrescue.org/Woodenboat_Restoration_progress_reports.htm)

Cheers.

p.s. maybe I missed it, but tell me more about your boat, or is there another thread I can read?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thanks for the offer I will send you an email

Originally posted by OEX:
p.s. maybe I missed it, but tell me more about your boat, or is there another thread I can read?Check this old thread out.
http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=011031&p=

[WoodenBNut]

Joe,
I don't think you will have any trouble with the plywood used for bracing. But after you cut out the plywood bracing, I would apply at least a couple applications of CPES to them and then at least seal all exposed grain surfaces with epoxy. Also, make sure that when you drill holes in the plywood that you seal those holes with CPES & epoxy before putting the bolts/screws in.
Your boat looks great!!!

[Dave Fleming]

Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )
.
Member # 4659

posted 01-17-2006 09:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow full photo disclosure Tic Tock Tic Tock???????

[ 01-19-2006, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

;) Dave, I went to the shop in the morning but Eric was at Condon Lumber getting supplies. I'm working with him on Friday, and as you know I'm never shy with a camera ;)

[Dave Fleming]

Enough with sales rant in the Bilge. :rolleyes:

Where are the PHOTOS????

tongue.gif

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Dave Fleming:
Enough with sales rant in the Bilge.

Where are the PHOTOS????

Here they come some ya might not like but so be it ;)
by the way After my morning bilge rants I did the best thing a boat guy can do I went to work on the boat to clear my head.

This is some of the clamping in place we have done:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p8291aaff176d6448249e239ededf58e9/f07e27bf.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pc89c79b91bbce5137d57e12492aaac15/f07e27b3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pbd5c2dd0ea3d68a6e2d6459ba7319221/f07e2787.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p009f61b153e5cac58ff2bdad865feddb/f07e2781.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pf9ec6ffd87e18fd9b284c220afd958bb/f07e2777.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pa859c68f0f7b49af5a3b6f2007c415ca/f07e276c.jpg

By the way I forgot my Leica digital and when I got there I thought O MY GOD Dave is gonna kill me. Ahhhh but then I remembered I always have a camera on my phone.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

So today we cut the new marine plywood gussets. Each one with the correct angle each one unique.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pf28e3b594e7c51c6ca97879c8c76a17d/f07e2795.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p228e23e3bcea225cc47c311e9d72db3f/f07e279f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p7e8f4b7f6f5d7701272e95eb2c35521a/f07e27ac.jpg

Not bad for a lil camera phone got the job done. We then soaked the marine plywood gussets in penitrating epoxy overnight.

[Dave Fleming]

Nope, didn't pull the side frame pieces tight to the bottom frame/floor pieces.

Still not braced enough for me.

Ya fix those splits in the bottom frame/floor pieces?

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Dave Fleming:
Ya fix those splits in the bottom frame/floor pieces?Yup replacing them with fresh oak, that'll fix em ;)

They were all wrenched down to split and some were so busted up that they were just wobbling in place :eek:

You are talking about the blocks that go across ?
You can see them removed and the bolts exposed in this photo

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p8291aaff176d6448249e239ededf58e9/f07e27bf.jpg

[Dave Fleming]

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL780/3097474/6292566/126481483.jpg

This is what I am talking about, see the way the side frame is not fully landed on the bottom frame/floor?

The hull should have been braced to pull those pieces back in alignment before cutting those new gussets, no?

[ 01-20-2006, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Dave Fleming]

BUMP

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Momentarily Bumped (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013036)

Shipwright continues to work I will stop by tomorrow if work doesn't bump me ;)

[Dave Fleming]

'at's right Dhowman, ya gotta make da bucks ta pay da piper/boatrepairer. ;)

[ 02-03-2006, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Leon Steyns]

Great work, Joe! Thanks for the pictures. Those fixes for the frames look really well. I'll keep this one in case I might need it!

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Still working

Fresh oak

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/p70ac77d9975f1f2ecbe0c2166c60520b/f0381342.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/p706acd71796baf3bdd3bf07891ddffbf/f0381337.jpg

Knees epoxied

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid201/pbf12675acf1300e271860f6d93e6242f/f038132b.jpg

Slow but steady. I didn't forget about her with the new Cat in the house ;)

[Dolly Varden]

wheres oyster when you need him?

Dutch

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Who are you and why are you here, when we don't need you ? :D

As for Oyster we email and talk on the phone regular. But I do miss his contrabution to this section of the forum.

[ 02-10-2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]