View Full Version : A question about the Church and sailors.
George.
02-22-2007, 10:56 AM
This is in the bilge because it involves religion and history, which are subjects most often discussed there. But it is about wooden ships and is likely to remain civil, so maybe a link here is in order, to draw some of those who ordinarily avoid the smell down there... :D
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=61953
I have an amateur historian’s interest in the Portuguese navigations of the 15th and 16th centuries, when they discovered most of the great ocean routes of the world.
One thing that I have been curious about is the role of religion aboard. In King’s ships and on official expeditions, of course, there were often priests on board. But the merchant vessels and small exploration ships on which most trips took place had no room for priests. I have a small collection of early logbooks and accounts of voyages, and priests almost never went.
My question is: what religious rites would those crews observe on long trips? Mass? Confession? Six o'clock services? Certain feast days? Who would lead them?
Remember, all Western Europeans were Catholics back then. This is before Martin Luther, and also before the Counter-Reformation.
John Turpin
02-22-2007, 11:14 AM
I'm betting they weren't holding potluck dinners in Fellowship Hall.
Tom Robb
02-22-2007, 12:48 PM
I don't know for sure, but at that time I'd guess that confession and communion were just before setting sail and not resumed until return.
No priest/no mass.
AB seamen were likely unschooled and functioned on a superstition level rather than worrying about fine theological points.
Burial at sea was probably common, and necessary, and probably officiated by the captain.
Any Portugese historians on the forum? I'd expect that there's a museum(s) in Portugal who have lots of information on the subject that beats my guesses.
George.
02-22-2007, 12:59 PM
Confession before imminent death was taken quite seriously back then. One reads of men confessing on stricken or plague-ridden ships, and praying in thanks when the storm or pox abated.
I assume that they were confessing to someone, and being led in prayer by someone. In the absence of a priest, who might that be?
Tom Robb
02-22-2007, 01:25 PM
If I remember correctly, in extremis and no priest being available, you could confess to anyone willing to hear it. There's biblical justification for that. And if alone, and you feel the flames of hell licking at your feet, you could always go straight to the top and confess to God. I know that sounds flip, but it was serious business, and still is to anyone who is commited to a serious relationship with God. For others it may be mere "fire insurance."
I suspect that there were few athiests on the discovery ships.
ken_nyus
02-22-2007, 02:02 PM
There is also the ritual prayer called The Itinerary, from the Divine Office, to be said when departing on a journey.
I agree with the other posters, that it seems like the administration of The Sacraments would be the primary reason to have a priest, but as others have mentioned, even this can be dispensed with when needed.
Charles Burgess
02-22-2007, 10:04 PM
European sailors were always rather unorthodox...borderline blaphemous sacriligious heathens at times. The Sea is its own priest...pronouncing blessings and the last-rights in a single breath of wind.
George.
02-23-2007, 09:55 AM
I suspect that there were few athiests on the discovery ships.
But plenty of "converted" Jews and Muslims.
Some had converted, some pretended to. Without them there would have been no voyages, since pilots in particular were sometimes Jews or Arabs, and the "sailing cosmographers" that mapped the world were often so.
In Portugal (and Spain) at the time, there was constant "testing" of "converts" to see if they were faking it - requiring them to eat pork or attend mass, for instance.
One would hope that the world's best mariners (at the time), on a demanding voyage would be above such petty harassment, but one wonders... :(
Tom Robb
02-23-2007, 05:35 PM
Putting ourselves in others' shoes is difficult at best. When they're 1/2 century removed and had different ways of looking at their world it may be nearly impossible.
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