I'm so confussed (sail question)

[cs]

Went out just now and laid the sails for the Balboa 20 out, just to get a warm fuzzy. I ain't got a warm fuzzy.

At first I thought that maybe I had two jibs, but when overlaying them it doesn't appear because they are differnt sizes and shaped a little different. One thing the jib is of a heavier material than the main. Another thing is and a list to follow,

For one thing the foot of the sail has no bolt rope nor does it have any eyelets. Near the clew there are a couple of small eyelets. The head of the sail appears normal. It has a eyelet on it for attaching the halyard. Here is where it gets strange to me. The luff has a boltrope for where it fits in the mast track (that is okay) but it also has some eyelets and in these eyelets are some sort of plastic shackle thingamijigger which to my untrained eye will not let the boltrope fit in the track.

So any clues? Photos to follow after supper.

Chad

[Concordia...41]

For one thing the foot of the sail has no bolt rope nor does it have any eyelets. Near the clew there are a couple of small eyelets. The head of the sail appears normal. It has a eyelet on it for attaching the halyard. Here is where it gets strange to me. The luff has a boltrope for where it fits in the mast track (that is okay) but it also has some eyelets and in these eyelets are some sort of plastic shackle thingamijigger which to my untrained eye will not let the boltrope fit in the track.

Venturing a couple of guesses -

1. I think you're better off without a boltrope foot - wasn't that a common comment on your tread about the boom?

2. If you're talking about eyelets near the clew on the main, at least one is an outhaul.

Post some pictures and I bet Todd Bradshaw will answer your questions.

- M

[Figment]

The little plastic shackle thingamajigger attaches to some slugs which ride in the track. This allows the sail to flake over the boom without completely re-feeding the luff into the track with every hoist.

The foot has no rope or eyelets because it's a loose-foot main, attached only at the tack and clew. I favor this arrangement for a number of reasons that I won't bore you with.

I'm guessing that the little eyelets at the clew are for a leach-line and possibly a foot-line... a.k.a. "schtoppitfromflappin".

[Todd Bradshaw]

Yup, that's it. There should be some plastic or plastic and metal slugs attached to the shackles which are the only parts that actually slide into the mast's boltrope tunnel. There is also usually a loose metal slug with a thumb-screw on it. After the first hoist, this is stuck into the very bottom of the tunnel just above the flared opening where the slugs went in and tightened in place. It keeps the slugs from falling out of the tunnel when the sail is later lowered and flaked.

These systems are helpful when you store the sail on the boom under a sailcover as it makes assembly and hoisting (as well as furling when you're done sailing for the day) faster. For daysailing where you're stepping the mast every time, you may or may not find it helpful. If desired, you could always remove the shackles and just run the boltrope up the tunnel with no slugs or shackles (as long as the person who installed the grommets, which are likely a retrofit, put them far enough aft of the rope that they don't interfere with getting the rope in the tunnel).

[cs]

Okay, I'm done with the flame grilled T Bone and the photos have uploaded.

Sounds like you guys have hit the nail right square on the head. I knew Todd would have the answer and Margo and Figment were right on it. I'm glad I was having a heck of time figuring it out, being as I've only dealt with sailboats that I have made. But here are the photos and you can confirm your educated guesses.

Sail laid out in the yard.

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/208533047/512/null/image.jpg

The Clew

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/208533048/512/null/image.jpg

The tack and one of the thingamijiggers.

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/208533049/512/null/image.jpg

The head and another thingimijigger.

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/208533052/512/null/image.jpg

and just a thingimijigger.

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/208533053/512/null/image.jpg

So now it appears that all I have to do is take one of my old yards off of the SH-14 and make it the right length, add a gooseneck of some sort and I'm in buisness. Wonder how come I couldn't find any reef points on this sail?

and hey any drawings that any of you have showing how all this works would be great. I'm still a long way off from needing them, but it helps me visualize and I can always print it out for later.

Guess my description up top was fairly good, or at least good enough for you guys (and gals) to figure out what the heck I was talking about.

Chad

[Concordia...41]

Have you got a copy of The Complete Sailor?

It has good drawings of thingimaggers ;) (and what they do)

[Figment]

Wait, no that's not a mainsail, that's a foresail. the thingamajiggers are plastic hanks, they clip onto the forestay. As you suspected in your first post, you DO have two jibs.

[cs]

Are you sure? Man that sux if so. That means I still need to get a mainsail. :confused: :(

Chad

[paladin]

Nope one izz a storm trys'l and the other is the backwinded jib....can't youse guys get anything straight......;)

[Thorne]

Try Bacon Sails website - great deals and a good selection of used sails. But if they say it is rough, believe 'em!

;0 )

http://www.baconsails.com/

[Hwyl]

Yes, you have two jibs. Should be relatively easy to find an O.K. main in that size.

[cs]

Okay I bookmarked that site. Just a real quick look and I found this;

Catalog No 39-HEG8-152 Luff 20' 0" Foot 8' 0" Leech 18' 9" Head 0' 0" Price $ 50.00
MAIN FOR A "TRY FLY". SORT OF LOOKS LIKE A LARGE WINDSURFING SAIL. 3.0 OZ. DACRON. TEXTILENE (NYLON MESH) SLEEVED LUFF FOR MASTS UP TO 6". TWO CUT OUTS FOR BOOMS. COLORS ARE WHITE, LIGHT BLUE AND ROYAL BLUE. VISIBILITY WINDOW. PEEL OFF NUMBERS AND INSIGNIA. TAKES 3 BATTENS, INCLUDED. FADED RED BAG. GOOD.

I will keep and eye on their site.

Chad

So translate some of that for me "Try Fly"? Two cut outs for booms? Sleeved Luff?

[cs]

and another thing. Is 3 oz to light?

Chad

[John Bell]

Three oz. is too light for that main. You don't want a sleeved luff either.

You need some water time, Chad. Why don't you come down and help me move my boat in a couple of weeks? Wait'll it's warmer, tho'

[Hwyl]

Same offer as John Bell, in York Maine.

[cs]

John let me know when you are going to move your boat. I might can work that in. Gareth you are still just a little far away.

It just clicked on what a sleeved luff is. Is that where the mast would slide inside a sleeve sewn into the sail?

Chad

[John Bell]

John let me know when you are going to move your boat. I might can work that in. Gareth you are still just a little far away.

It just clicked on what a sleeved luff is. Is that where the mast would slide inside a sleeve sewn into the sail?

Chad

Going to move to a new marina on the other side of the lake, a short run of about two hours to do it. Getting on the water is always good for me. I don't think you as many opportunities, hence the offer. It'll be mid to late March.

You are correct about the sleeved luff.

[cs]

I might can work that in. Usually around the first of the month is a drill weekend. The middle of March is not good for me, but I think I can make end of March work.

Chad

[Todd Bradshaw]

You need a regular cruising Marconi or Bermuda-style mainsail with a luff boltrope. It could be either a roped foot of loose foot, since you don't have a boom yet. Fabric should be no less than about 5.5 ounce cruising Dacron. Dimensions for the stock sail are as follows. You could go a bit shorter on most if you bought a used sail made for something else and get away with it, but going longer can run into some pretty serious fit problems that may not be cheap to have fixed.

Luff 21ft (6400mm)
Foot 8.67ft (2642mm)
Leech-AftHdBd 21.95ft (6690mm)
Tack Ang 85.91 degrees
Diag (clew/head) 22.14ft (6748mm)
Headboard width 4in (102mm)
Area (not counting Roach) 93.82ft2 (8716mm2)
Tack pin setback 3.5" aft of mast

[cs]

Thanks Todd. I will use those numbers to price a sail and look for a used one. Do you think the foot length can be increased some if it helps to find a used one?

Chad

[Todd Bradshaw]

I officially don't do this anymore (burned-out) but since you asked about something I posted last night, I'll answer the question.

You could certainly increase the foot length a bit, but a lot probably isn't a good idea as it might create balance problems. Since you know how to find the CE, draw the sail out on paper for the dimensions shown above and cross check any potential candidates against it while trying to keep the sail area and CE location similar. A CE shift, forward or aft, of a couple percentage points of waterline length isn't likely to hurt you on a cruiser with multiple headsails available and the typical sheeting/trimming options for balance adjustment. but a big shift may cause lots of unwanted helm.

[Figment]

Since you can build your boom to whatever length you like, I'd suggest that you try to find a very popular one-design boat with similar mainsail size, and design your boom to accommodate. This will ensure a ready supply of deeply discounted moderately used sails.

[cs]

Thanks a lot guys. I will be looking for a mainsail in that size are before I do anything with the boom.

I also wonder if the orginal owner has forgotten just where he put the boom and sail. Surely it is laying around somewhere in some storage shed.

Chad