Cracked Frames on a Landing School 2004 Haven 12 1/2

[Seastone]

I have a Landing School-built carvel-planked 2004 Haven 12 1/2 that is currently in storage at a boatyard. The boatyard has recently informed me that, while they were doing some varish work on the boat, they noticed that six of the oak frames are cracked. The boatyard clams to have no idea how the frames became cracked.

The boat was hauled out at the boatyard last fall using one of their sling cranes. I have a naval architect friend who believes that the frames may have been damaged during the haulout, by the slings being inproperly spaced, resulting in crusing force being applied to the hull and frames.

Is anyone aware of such frame damage having taken place during a haulout? Are they any other likely causes of such frame cracking? Also, the boatyard suggests repairing the frames by installing "sister frames" for each damaged frame. Is this an appropriate way to repair cracked frames? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[JimConlin]

Such damage would be consistent either with the boat being dropped or in a serious collision. It could also be from errors in construction like over caulking or too-dry planking stock.
I would contact the builders, too.

[nedL]

Looking at the crack (at least from what is visable in the picture) I don't think I'd be inclined to go after the yard as the cause of the problem (unless there are other indicators elsewhere of improper handling). I would think that it would be pretty hard to crack ribs on a small, light boat such as this by lifting her with the slings in the 'wrong position'.

[Brian Palmer]

I am not a boatbuilder, but I think it is interesting that it appears that there is caulking coming through from the outside on the seam just above the cracked frame. If I understand correctly, the seams on the inside of the boat should be wood-to-wood and the caulking should not be coming through.

From this, I would guess that the boat had dried out, and the seams were overcaulked to fill the expanded gap in the seams. As it swelled, the pressure cracked the frame. This plank and seam should probably be corrected when the frames are repaired, or it could happen again.

Hopefully, someone with more expertise than me can contribute.

What sort of experience does your yard have with wood boats? Do they do building or repair?

-- Brian

[Bob Smalser]

Bent wood is most prone to cracking in normal use when there is some grain runout in the bending stock.....runout meaning all the wood fibers aren't in play, resulting in overstress of the ones that are.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/239346948.jpg

Assuming there is no knot or defect on the stessed face of the frame, in this crack there are no growth ring separations except at the top of the crack, the fibers broke straight across beginning at the planking, and the separated growth ring is exactly parallel to the frame, indicating no or minimal grain runout.

The last set of bent frames I saw cracked like this in a boat this new were in a light open skiff damaged by the owner who mounted it on its trailer using a large trucker's ratcheting tiedown strap running 360 degrees around the boat. Could also be a collision. Are your cracked frames in the cockpit or elsewhere not supported by a deck beam?

While possible, if the boat is planked in cedar, I believe the cedar edges would more likely crush without cracking frames if they were installed exceptionally dry. Doug Fir or another species as hard, strong and prone to large seasonal movement used as planking might be a different story.

[pcford]

Where are the busted frames? Were the frames cracked before haul-out? Are you sure?

I doubt if the yard is to blame. Sounds like you are trying to find someone to help pay for normal maintenance on your boat. Fix the frames.

[Jeb Fowler]

I would not sister the frame but replace it. Especially if in plain sight. Go easy on the landing school (class of '93 here) That crack/split could be the combination of a bum piece of oak and heavy cycling of planking/ extra caulking etc. The builders really can't know at this point if they are culpable.

-Jeb
Austin, TX

[few3]

Tension/compression break fer sure. It's gone. It almost looks as if a screw ( no pilot/ or bad pilot ) stressed or split the frame enough to weaken an already weakened ( by bending) piece of lumber. My guess would be to "work" with Landing on a solution.

[Rick Starr]

I'm using this as a learning experience so I can't offer any useful commentary.

But I'm very curious--you say there are 6 such cracked frames; are they all identical? Are they adjacent? Are they all on one side? Opposite sides? Randomly distributed throughout the boat? The distribution may shed some light enabling more knowledgable folks to offer you more relevant commentary.

In any event, good luck.

[erster]

My vote goes for improper pilot, oversized fasteners, improper flush fit to the plank, and stress that was actually built into the frame for that size and build from the weakening of the fastener, as it appears you have a filled voided area at the seam. Travel lifts are the devil on wooden hulls, especially when they roll across potholes or dips in the yard. This is a very very common problem even without travel lift haulouts in most all of the Egg Harbor, Posts, and simular wooden hulls that had round bilges and steam bent frames. If you are looking for some information that will give you support for making the yard pay for it, unless you have a good attorney, or one yourself, I personally have never seen a yard pay for such repairs, especially if its inside the hull with no apparent exterior punctures. I bet there is a fastener that created the stress right about the side crack area within a 1/2 inch???? leading towards the seam.

Disclaimer: This is all speculation, and not to be used as reference in determining guilt or innocence, only for future knowledge for personal use when determining another haulout.

[OEX]

I have seen this on every Herreshoff we have had come through the WBRF. Yes they are much older, but they seem to have had the cracks all along especially at the turn of the bilge. Got to tell you. Herreshoff scantlings are just a bit too small even on a small boat like yours. A little error in steam time (too long), amount of caulking, to small or wide a caulking bevel----all mean crack!. Tight radius means this will happen even within hours of putting in the frame, those cracks might have been there from day one and now with caulking and drying you see them. Read Ed McClaves article on frames and you will see what they feel as well. Do not waste your time sistering on such a very simple boat to work on, replace the frame with black locust (always say this) so you can keep the scanting size original, but increase strength considerable as wall as rot resistance.

My take is its the building, wood quality, and design that failed, not the yard unless they have been caulking every year without reefing out the seams a bit. If you see a chine-look to the outside of the planks near the crack---look to the caulking first, not only cause, but your first clue.

Cheers, Bruce
www.woodenboatrescue.org (http://www.woodenboatrescue.org)

[emichaels]

Check for the fastners , like erster suggested. I also think the plank looks a little wide for that area of the hull. Was the boat lined out correctly. Wider planks mean fewer caulked seams to take up seasonal movement.

[Chan]

Built by the Landing School in 2004
My first response would be to make them aware of the issue. That is thier small boat building project part of the curriculum.
I think they might be interested in the failure of the frames ,and might want to correct it, as they produce one every year for sale.
They might also want to correct the problem on your boat as a study exercise.
I'd go back to the Landing School, they have an excellent reputation and am sure they would like to maintain it.

[morton caplan]

It is very interesting to read the expert opinions as to the cause of frame cracking. I had always assumed it was inevitable with sharply bent steamed oak ribs. I had a Schock PC, an R Boat (Pirate) and a David Stevens Schooner, all had cracked ribs which I sistered by laminating new ribs in place using 3/16" oak strips. The laminated ribs sidn't crack, although the ones in the schooner haven't been in long enough to tell.