Standing rigging re-do shoo-be-do

[David C]

I'm looking at replacing the standing rigging on my 36 LOD Novie-built gaff schooner, which is currently a hodgepodge of galvanized, stainless, and bronze, some of which with unfortunate galvanic consequences. (We won't go into the aluminum port lights...sigh) As of this moment, the plan (still open to modification) is SS 304 5/16 7X7 wire served with copper or annealed ss wire and spliced on oversized solid bronze thimbles, seized at the throat to permit changing the thimble and easy inspection, and finally bronze toggles and turnbuckles so that hopefully everything will be compatible with my bronze chainplates.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

Is it my imagination, or is the rigging in the current WB article on the Liverpool splice a lot like this? Sure looks like 7X7 ss but the article doesn't say. The thimbles are from Bristol Bronze in Rhode Island, I know.

1x19 is a possibility, but it is ugly and hard to splice. I've thought about galvanized, which virtually every professional rigger I've talked to has discouraged. Brion Toss advocates for it in The Complete Rigger's Apprentice which is what got me going on that track in the first place. I finally found a supplier for it--in England, in metric, but Geez! Loos makes 7x7 ss right here in Connecticut....

Finally, my current rig has 3/8 galvanized wire for the uppers and 5/16 for the lowers. It has been suggested that I could go with 5/16 on the uppers as well as generally there is more strain on the lowers anyway...

Feedback anyone? Please?

Thanks,
David

[Hwyl]

As of this moment, the plan (still open to modification) is SS 304 5/16 7X7 wire served with copper or annealed ss wire and spliced on oversized solid bronze thimbles, seized at the throat to permit changing the thimble and easy inspection, and finally bronze toggles and turnbuckles so that hopefully everything will be compatible with my bronze chainplates.



Do you mean served as in "wormed parcelled and served" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm,_parcel_and_serve

or just whipped at the thimble. Seems like a good plan.

I agree with the 5/16 thing and if I were going to go with galvi, I would worm, parcel and serve. But I'd paint the serving rather than tar it.

Are you close to Stamford, MacDonald rigging =, is exeedingly expensive, but you'd probably get lots of free, good advice. I should imagine Scotty himself is no longer terrorizing the place.

[Thad]

Lowers are generally heavier. I used 1x19 ss in rerigging my Triangle, spliced around eyes, based on Toss's suggestion and instruction. Worked good. 7x7 is a more flexible, thus easier to handle but not as strong in tension. You want a little oversize in the thimbles to account for compression in turning, but much oversize should not be necessary. Gareths suggestion to talk to the people at MacDonald Rigging is good. They might be a source for wire and solid expertise would be worth paying extra. Toss's splicing instructions are good, including his "suggestion" that you practice with multiple splices until you can do tight good looking splices that will be as strong as the wire. You need a good rigging vice. Have fun.

[George Ray]

Wonderful .... I just parceled and served about 200' of 3/8 galv 7x7 and in fact will be hanging it back up tomorrow. Using 7x7 stainless wiht splices and bronze thimbles will be a classic. What I have read and experienced is that worming is not needed for smaller wire (less than maybe 5/8") except for the splices. Not that it would hurt. The parceling (friction tape for me) is squisssssshed into the valleys.

[Gold Rock]

I'm rigging my 8 ton sloop w/ galv. parceled & served wire. Spliced eyes around bronze thimbles. Bronze turn buckle assy.s and bronze chain plates. I considered every option out there and chose this. Couldn't be happier.

[David C]

Thanks for the prompt feedback, gentlemen!

I have been diligently practicing my splices on scrap 7X19 stainless supplied free by a local industrial rigger on the rigging vise I put together from scrap plywood, angle iron, and 3/8 threaded rod (If I can find someone with a digital camera I'll upload a picture one of these days). They're starting to look good and go in fairly easily.

I was actually thinking of serving, (and parcelling without worming) around the eyes only and leaving the wires themselves bare for now, perhaps to be fully served later on.

Several of you are using galvanized 7x7. Where'd you find it? Overseas or locally?

Thanks again,
David

[George Ray]

An old thread:
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?p=1511343#post1511343

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George Ray:
When I started my schooner overhaul project, I looked long and hard for 7x7 galv,crs (3/8", 5/16") just in case I needed to replace any of my rigging. The most promising source of 7x7 was a firm in the UK that had both EU and Asian manufactured wire. I emailed them and they were very helpful, but I lost the address when MS Outlook fooled me into thinking I had backups all my emails for a two year period and a crash wiped the infomation out.. It was not the first time microsoft had charged me big $ and then let me down. I was steaming and switched to firefox and thunderbird and have not looked back. Where was I, Oh... back to wire,

Digging around I think that this is the UK firm that I corresponded with that had 7x7 in galv and CRS.
http://www.southernrigging.co.uk/

Galv 7x7: => http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/s...YCAT&catid=110

CRS: => http://www.ekmpowershop2.com/ekmps/s...LAYCAT&catid=9


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There must be a source in the US but it never jumped out at me.
West Coast wire was a lead I never followed up but looked promising.
How about those poured sockets?


http://www.wcwr.com/
http://www.porttownsendfoundry.com/id62.htm
http://www.glenmartin.com/index.html
http://www.wescovan.com/default.asp

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Don Kurylko:
Thanks for the links George. So far only Southern Rigging in England seems to still carry 3/8” 7x7 316 SS and 7x7 galvanized wire rope. It appears to have all but disappeared in North America. 7x19 316 is available in larger diameters, but I don’t like the idea of using it for shrouds - too many little wires in the make up. 7x7 galvanized in larger diameters is only available coated in plastic. Lots of 1x19 316 SS around though. I’m sure it will be available for a long time yet, but anyone who is contemplating rigging or re-rigging a larger cruising boat with hand formed splices and soft eyes may be in for a bit of a shock by the apparent scarcity of high quality 7x7 316 wire. 7x7 304 is still available, which is okay for northern waters maybe, but for tropical cruising it’s less than adequate. It just deteriorates too quickly.

I would also recommend that anyone contemplating buying wire these days should NOT purchase it sight unseen. It appears that there is a lot of “offshore” crap out there manufactured to very poor standards. At least purchase a sample first so you don’t get burned on a big order.
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Roger Cumming:
Jakob, Inc
400 Gulfstream Blvd
Delray beach, FL 33444
561-330-6502
866-525-6226

Swiss manufacturer of ss wire rope and fittings for architectural applications, mostly in type 316. Very high quality. They may have a product appropriate for marine use.
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George Ray Update: I hung the foremast and mainmast newly served shrouds yesterday. I have to go back up and seize them where the they cross over after wrapping. and then I have to finish the steel work on the new railing on top of the bulwark and then mount the lower deadeyes. Here are some pics of what it used to look like.

As found:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pf6a028090f5f0745c8181131b78eddde/ea34bd54.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p34af5fd0ce6ffc7fc9953c2387ec676f/ea34bd3e.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pdb2d5eb3b8e3563fbee688433d2f918a/ea34bd29.jpg
Mockup of new handrail on top of bulwark. Pins are fitted and welded and steel pipe just needs to be fitted in place of the pvc mockup.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p1f95996eb84452e971ec71bf87830758/ea34b9fe.jpg