Where to paint

[jamanderswan]

Hello ~ I would like to know if anybody could help me with a slight
issue I am contemplating. I would like to paint a 16' canoe I am building out of red cedar. I am going to fiberglass it but would also like to paint it. My question is wouold it be terrible to paint the hull before I fiberglass? I think it seems like a good way so save work down the road, but I am worried that the epoxy used would react poorly with paint. Am I correct? Should I paint the outer hull After it has already been fiberglassed?

[Brian Palmer]

I think you will get better adhesion between the epoxy and bare wood than between epoxy and paint over wood. You may also get a reaction between the paint and epoxy, if the epoxy contains any solvents (although most do not).

It would certainly be alright to paint over the epoxy and glass since the paint would help protect the epoxy from UV damage better than varnish. Unprotected epoxy is very susceptible to UV damage.

I personally think it is a mistake that almost every stripbuilt canoe needs to be varnished. Most would look great painted in one of the traditional colors used by companies like Old Town and Chestnut.

-- Brian

[Thorne]

My recommendation, in order from the wood out:

CPES (warm the wood if you can & **wear a respirator**!)
Epoxy
Glass
Epoxy, epoxy, fairing fairing scraping sanding etc
Paint, paint, paint


Try some searches here regarding how to wet out the epoxy, and for possible alternatives to glass cloth, and/or what weight cloth to use.

[jamanderswan]

awesome guys thank you so much for all of your help. you have made my day!

Thanks again

[Thorne]

There are some very experienced canoe-builders on this forum, so I image they will have some excellent advice. Can you tell us more about the canoe design, thickness of materials, and planned use?

If lightness is critical to the design and/or use (lots of long portages) then you may wish to use less epoxy and possibly an alternative to the usual fiberglass cloth -- dynel or ?

Let's see what they say...

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I'm not experience but, I've read most of the literature.
Number one-you didn't say what type of construction is involved?
If this boat is being strip-built the fiberglass /epoxy lamination MUST be applied to raw wood to get the proper adhesion. Strippers are not wooden boats. They are wood-cored fiberglass hulls. If the various layers aren't properly glued to each other the hull will fail.
As a general principle, if you have a layer of paint in any laminated structure the entire lamination is no stronger than the layer of paint.

[jamanderswan]

That is what my thoughts were, I wanted to solidify them against somebody with more experience than myself.

As far as plan and all that rut. I am using Gil Gilpatricks book I got from Amazon for short money. I went the easy route in creating the templates for the stations. I photocopied the double page layout in his book then went down to my local kinkos and enlarged them. I then traced them onto a large 1/2" piece of plywood. no muss no fuss. I have a strongback made as per what the book has implied. 2 2x6x14 planks using 2x4's as the cross members. I haven't decided upon what wood yet. I have only found one Place in the area that would have lumber long enough, and not place that would mill it. I do have a nice bandsaw & a table saw if need be.

I am not too concerned about wieght. However I do not want a 200lb canoe. My thoughts were( as the book said ) 1/4"x3/4" strip of red cedar, and ash for the gunnels.

[Todd Bradshaw]

Epoxy and fiberglass over bare wood should be the first layer(s).There is nothing to be gained by using CPES under epoxy resin, so don't bother with it. Use fiberglass cloth if it's a stripper as it's the only type that will provide enough stiffness to keep the hull from flexing to the point of breaking the wood. The other synthetics (Dynel, Xynole, polypropylene, etc.) have high tear strength, but provide minimal stiffness. They are generally useful in canoes and kayaks only as selective additional reinforcement to the glassfiber and don't provide enough beef for building a hull without something else providing the needed stiffness and doing most of the work. Most of them also soak up lots of resin and add a lot of excess weight.

You can fill the weave of the fiberglass with either plain resin or a resin/filler powder mix. Plain resin generally resists the type of scratching that canoes get from running over rocks much better than fairing compound mixes. After filling the weave and sanding the surface smooth (I would not go any finer than around 100 grit paper) you're ready to paint. You can use primer for your first painting layers if you really want to, but assuming that the surface is properly prepared, it doesn't seem to add anything to the paint package. Above all, the best way to fiberglass and finish a canoe hull is to get a good book on stripper building and carefully follow the directions - something that an amazing number of new builders choose not to do. All too often, they pay the price later when the boat breaks or during the glassing process when they end up with some sort of serious problems.

The lower boat in this photo has been sheathed with WEST Epoxy and fiberglass and then painted.
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sails/big%20move%20016%20copy.jpg

[George Roberts]

I agree with Todd Bradshaw's advice.

[jamanderswan]

Thank you all agian you have proven your worth 100 fold. Makes me excited to begin the guts of the project. Again thank you all for your help.