Airhead head

[moTthediesel]

Talking now about the Airhead composting marine head, not an aircooled BMW bike, anyone have first hand (or lower) review to give?
moT

[Lew Barrett]

Wasn't there a review in WB a couple of months ago?
Lew

[webfoot]

What issue?? I'd like to see some feedback, too.

[Hwyl]

I think Mark V had one and he got rid of it. He's not on here much anymore (more's the pity) this is his website http://markvdesigns.tripod.com/boatbuilding/

[HR]

Practical Sailor did a review of it, but I lent my issue to someone and never got it back so I can't tell you which issue it was. You can check their on-line index.

[dredbob]

My friend installed one of those on his Alberg 30. He lives aboard about nine months out of the year (usually gets a house-sitting gig during the winter). He has had it for I think going on two years now, and is very happy with it.

Bob

[StevenBauer]

I thought Mark Van spoke highly of the composter. Anyone remember the thread?

Steven

[Dave B]

We're seriously considering putting one in our boat when it's done. At the last Port Townsend, Washington WB Festival one of the very nice sailboats had it listed on their list of "equipment" on board. I finally screwed up my courage and asked the lady who was one of the owners how they liked it. She said it worked as advertised and would recommend it.
The best part of the story however was the look on the lady's face when I asked her. There she was showing off her beautiful boat, and the only thing I wanted to know about was their crapper!:D

[John Turpin]

It's a tall unit, so make sure you have enough 'head' room for it. The only negative I've heard involves the amount of 'volume' it can process. I've heard that it easily keeps up with one adult's full-time use. Two adults might be pushing it. A family of four liveaboards doesn't have a chance. Again, I've heard these comments second or third hand and have no personal experience with them so your mileage may vary. Also, they need a vent pipe and you won't want this near the cockpit, so the location of your head is a factor too.

[Ross Faneuf]

We installed an Air Head in Ceol Mor in 2005, and so far we absolutely love it - well, to the extent that phrase makes sense when describing a marine toilet. We sailed a full season using it last year, and that only confirmed that for us, at least, it's a great choice.

In fact, after the first season (2004), I felt that the Air Head was so superior to conventional wet toilet/holding tank, that I removed the tank, all the plumbing, and the two through-hulls, filled all the mounting holes, filled and blanked the through-hull holes, and painted the head. You now can't tell there was ever any conventional toilet plumbing installed in the boat.

We have the vent for the Air Head connected to a solar vent, instead of using the supplied low wattage fan; this seems to work very well.

Note: our rules are that all toilet use is seated, no matter the gender. But that was our rule for a conventional toilet as well.

Air Head pros:
1. Cleaner and less smelly than a conventional toilet. For the most part, easier to clean.
2. Easier to use - really. This is true in rough weather as well.
3. Doesn't clog. Doesn't leak. Doesn't drip.
4. If someone doesn't obey the rules, and puts in something they're not supposed to (like a tampon), the result is unpleasant rather than catastrophic.
5. Much less cluttered installation - effectively more room in a small head, like ours.
6. You get to freak out conventional boaters, who think you're weird.
7. You get to give the Coast Guard interesting answers when they ask about the position of your discharge y-valve.

Air Head cons:
1. You end up with a lot of pee to deal with; we typically empty the urine tank over the side. Since it's sterile, this isn't a big deal, but we don't really want to advertise, either.
2. You don't ever want to let the urine tank get to the overflow point.
3. You have to carefully explain how to use it to guests. Come to think of it, this is a con for conventional toilets...
4. You get to freak out conventional boaters, who think you're weird.
5. You get to give the Coast Guard interesting answers when they ask about the position of your discharge y-valve.

So far, we haven't needed to recycle the solids during the season. We let it compost until spring, then put it on the lilacs. It's as inoffensive as advertised.

[moTthediesel]

Ross,

Thanks for that first hand report, it sounds ideal for the kind of minimalist long range cruiser I've got in mind. As someone who has spent a good deal of my working life in building maintenance, I say "death to plumbing!"

What about the "volume" thing. I talking about cruising full time with a crew of 2, occasionally 4 for a few days. Would that be more than it can handle? (Not expecting it to keep up with a dozen frat boys and a keg of "Country Bear Wizz Beer")

moT

[David W Pratt]

but Truth has a composting head by SunMar. Works fine. Throw in a handful of earthworms in the spring, and a scoop of peat moss after each movement. Hasn't been emptied since 2000.
I recommended the AH to friends and they are happy.
Good luck.

[Ross Faneuf]

Most of our cruising is with 2 people for a Maine summer - that is, 4-5 months. Last year we did 4 months including a 2 week cruise, and the Air Head wasn't full yet. Probably the guidelines which the maker supplies will give you your best info. I believe he uses one himself as his home toilet, so he ought to know. I suppose we'll eventually find out the hard way, and then we'll know.

Certainly, if I were in any doubt before the cruise, I'd make sure I could swap the compost unit out at that point, or take it home and add it to a compost unit there. It comes with a cover for the lower unit so you can do just that.

[Ian McColgin]

I just got one, yet to install, but I got the big push from an occasional contributer here who has two in his trawler and a couple in other boats.

Two people three day weekends four or so month season will about fill up the bin for solid compostables. Such folk generally let it cook a bit longer before putting in the compost. If you take it out when about full but with recent use, it's recommended that you leave it in a bag for a while to finish cooking.

It's definatly possible for a live-aboard like myself to get it full before it's much cooked. Just bag it and stash it for the final composting.

Also, again a live-aboard's issue, it won't cook so well when the temperature is low. Again, the solution when the tank is full is bag it and let it cook.

I've become convinced that all this is still less work than fussing with a holding tank, pump out stations, conflicting regulations, and holding tank odor.

[Gold Rock]

Great topic. I've looked over my friend's unit and was impressed. Don't know if he thought it was wierd when I stuck my head in the compartment where it was installed and took a big sniff, but I came out smiling. Utterly odor free. One question; are the paper (?) filters that look to be used for solid waste something that can be purchased from sources other than AH? More specifically, they look like pleated coffee filters. True? No?

[Ross Faneuf]

They are coffee filters, available anywhere. And not needed except in rough weather.

[raymacke]

There is a new unit which will soon be available. It advertised as having some improvements over the Air Head. Here is a link - http://www.firstmatescabin.com/

[Mark Van]

I had the Sun-Mar composting head, which I got rid of. I was not satisfied with it at all. It was cheaply built, and a poor design. It looks like Air head is better, especially the way the liquid is dealt with.

[Dave Lesser]

I spoke with the guy at http://www.firstmatescabin.com about their composting toilet. The photo on their site is of a half-size prototype. They are just starting production and hope to have them available in May. The production model will be gray granite color, ventilation will be with an internal "computer" fan. Price will be $850.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/448849036_943f02d6e2_o.jpg

The guy who is producing these is a sailor, and to me, this looks like it belongs on a boat more than the Air Head or Sunmar did.

So why haven't these caught on? Seems to me to have major advantages:

1. No holding tank
2. Two less thru-hulls
3. No plumbing to clog or pumps to wear out.
4. No complicated instructions for guests.

Other than capacity, does anyone have info about the disadvantages?

[raymacke]

After looking at all available technology I have personally decided a composter is the way to go. I am waiting on production of the “Natures Head” and will install it in the 27’ Hankinson True Grit I am building. Can’t figure out why I would want to carry around a 30 gal tank full of s**t if I don’t have to. :D

[Concordia...41]

Apparently the firstmate guy spends a lot of time sitting. :D

http://www.firstmatescabin.com/06boatingProducts/cruzinBrandProducts/cruzinCoolerMotorScooter.jpg

ROTFLMAO :D

I tagged the site though and will "revisit" the issue when the time comes ;)

[katiedobe]

Of course you are more interested in the electric version right?
Jimmy

Apparently the firstmate guy spends a lot of time sitting. :D

http://www.firstmatescabin.com/06boatingProducts/cruzinBrandProducts/cruzinCoolerMotorScooter.jpg

[Dave Lesser]

Got this email from Larry Stearns of First Mate's Cabin (http://www.firstmatescabin.com/) regarding their new composting toilet. I have no financial interest in this, just passing the info along:


The Nature's Head units are going to be available for shipment May 15. We are offering a pre-production discount of $50.00 off the regular price of $850.00 if purchased by May 7. If you are interested email your number and we can discuss it.

Regards, Larry Stearns

[duck builder]

Dave L.,
1. Geoff Trott, the owner of Air Heads is a sailor and his product was designed specifically for boats.
2. The Nature's Head looks suspicously like an Air Head
3. I am not sure I can fully appreciate your "objective" preference for this "new" product over the Air Head based on what you have offered here.

As to capacity; when it's full, you empty it. Even if its twice instead of once a season that's a huge advantage over pumping out every weekend.

[Dave Lesser]

duck b.,

I have no preference for the Nature's Head over the Air Head or Sun-Mar.

The advantages that I listed were for composting toilets in general over traditional marine heads with plumbing and holding tanks. I didn't mean that they were advantages of the Nature's Head over the Air Head.

As far as appearance goes, that's just personal preference.

Air Head:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/484476237_86e95b8b05_o.jpg

Sun-Mar:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/484446136_f3006d732b_o.gif

Nature's Head:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/448849036_943f02d6e2_o.jpg

It would be nice to get some neutral, independent evaluation of these and other marine composting toilets with regard to capacity, durability, odor, power draw, features, ease of use, quality of construction, cost, etc. Maybe we can get Practical Sailor to do some testing.

************************************************** *****

After searching the Practical Sailor site, I see that they did a comparison of the Air Head and the Sun-Mar Ecolet in Volume 28, #22, Nov 15, 2002. Anyone have access to that article?

[py]

Well, going back to the original post, I've just got to say last weekend I bought a 1998 oilhead BMW touring bike. R1100RT. Flew from Adelaide up to Alice Springs Saturday morning to pick it up. Rode down to Coober Pedy Saturday afternoon (700ks) and then on home to Adelaide sunday (900ks). Absloflaminlootly awesome motorciccle

[moTthediesel]

Excellent!! Though I'm a "NORTON" man myself -- more like "Oilfoot", I'd guess.

Now then, what about Oilhead toilets?

Sounds like something the "Exxon Valdis" might have been fitted with.

moT

[Jay Greer]

I hear that the cedar bucket can be lined with a plastic bag filled with peat moss and the contents later disposed of, bag closed, like a disposable diaper. Might be even simpler than the air head. What would L. Francis say!
Jay

[Paul Fitzgerald]

The Pardy's recommend these:

http://www.thepett.com/index.php?PageLayout=PRODUCTS&headerID2=33&pageID=95

They should fit in a bucket, cedar or otherwise, or even in a normal marine toilet.

[Dave Lesser]

Here's the Nature's Head production model from First Mate's Cabin (http://www.firstmatescabin.com/):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/492762663_4cd595fcb0.jpg

[Jay Greer]

Replicated prototype.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pf74f15643432764c11ac06eaa76901e4/e9906585.jpg

[Woxbox]

4. No complicated instructions for guests

Assuming you can convince anyone to visit.
...and judging by what I've read, plenty of instructions are needed.

[SV Papillon]

I've decided it is worth it to deal with the composting unpleasantness rather than fix a plugged marine head, above mentioned etc... With two woman on board having a seperate pee container cachment thingy seems the way to go.
I was trying to convine my wife of the merits a composting head would have on board. Unfortunatly I made the mistake of mentioning the 'bagging to cook longer" comment of a previous poster:(. After that it was "You want to store bags of What!! on board, Are we going to use them as fenders??":eek: The end result was that she doesnt have to deal with the plugged toilet etc.. so if I want a composting one and will continue to deal with it thats fine, just no bags of poo in the lazaret.:)


Jake

[Mad Scientist]

Wasn't there a review in WB a couple of months ago?
Lew

Joe Youcha gave it a positive review it in WB #191, starting on p.107

[Bagheera]

First post to the forum here, so please be gentle.

I installed an Airhead on my Wells 34, "drifter", a few years ago. The original head was a direct discharge type that was legal when the boat was built (1964), and I didn't relish the idea of cutting various holes to install fittings and tankage. Mounting the composting head required drilling one hole for ventilation (to make it pretty, we built an extension to one of the dorade boxes and ran the vent out there). No tankage or other plumbing.

Using it's easy enough, though it's a good deal taller than the original marine head it replaced. For weekend use with a small crew, the solids tank can easily go a full season without needing to be emptied. We emptied the liquids tank more frequently, but it's hassle free to remove and take ashore or just pour overboard (where appropriate).

Upsides:
Incredibly simple installation and maintenance.
Actually less unpleasant to empty than dealing with normal pumpouts.
Easier to use than a normal marine toilet.
Excellent customer service from the manufacturer.
Cheaper than a conventional system (at least if installing from scratch)

Downsides:
It's tall. (We had to add a removable step in front of it for easier access)
The air vent must be routed somewhere where water won't flow back in, and the fan needs constant power.
It's fairly expensive for what's involved (though admittedly well made).
Some passengers may be uncomfortable with the whole Coffee-Filter and Peat Moss thing.
Dealing with the compost may be unpleasant (but less so than a leaking waste tank)

I had a couple of opportunities to deal with Geoff's customer service, and each time was impressed. We broke the cap for the liquids tank the first season, and he sent me two replacements free of charge. Later, when the liquids tank itself showed fatigue cracks and started to leak (they use a new design now, with a much sturdier material) I ordered a replacement of the new design and noted it was because the original cracked. They upgraded my shipping (I went for the lowest cost option) to Express Mail and I had the new tank in two days.

If you've already got the plumbing for a head, it might not be worth it. But if you're replacing a now-illegal direct discharge type, or regularly sail in a no discharge area, it might be a better option than a port-a-potty. Just make sure there's enough headroom!

[katiedobe]

Bumping this to the top because I want to hear if anyone has bought or used the First Mate's Nature Head yet. If so any feedback. Also another round of progress reports on Composting toilets would be nice. Are all the units spoken about above still in use and everyone still happy with them?

[Nicholas Scheuer]

We have friends sailing an O'Day-26 equipped with a Nature's Head for a year. They seem to like everything about it.

I've been interested in Air Heads (Nature's Head appears very similar) since first seeing one at Strictly Sail Chicago several years ago.

We have not experienced any real problems with our SeaLand Sani-Potty orther than the customary irritants, but an Air Head would extend our range between pumpouts considerably.

My principal concern is the size of my stools. Not meaning to brag (talk about a 'pissin" contest) but mine are very large. I had to install new toilets in our home having larger trapways. Anyway, anyone have experience filling an Air or Nature's Head "to the max"?

Moby Nick

[Tom Robb]

A whole new take on the mine's bigger 'n yours thing:rolleyes:

As long as we're getting gross, a related question: the mini seat - women and little kids only, or do they make one to fit men, or is it a one or the other question - piss or poop - but not both?

[Stiletto]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/484476237_86e95b8b05_o.jpg
I suppose it could come down to whether you want one that looks like a
potato peeler or a coffee machine.:rolleyes:


.http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/448849036_943f02d6e2_o.jpg

[Tom Robb]

I think I'd be a bit nervous about squatting on something that reminds me of a potato peeler:eek:

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Continuing the "grossout"; the guy with the Nature's Head in his O'Day-26 brought the NH to a meeting of our RYC a couple of months ago. He had it wrapped in a plastic leaf bag.

I thought he'd done a pretty good job of cleaning out the lower compost cntainer when we disassembled it.

I used to be in the toilet equipment business, so I notice things others might miss, such as the Air Head having a conventional hinged seat and lid, while the nature's Head has only a hinged cover. One sits directly on the NH, with the lid's perimeter sorta "wrapped around" the edge of the seat. The spaces between a conventional toilet, seat, and lid are intended for ventillation. It would seem that the people who designed NH wanted to "contain" any odor left in the bowl.

Moby Nick

[WX]

I will most likely go the compost toilet route myself. I don't want to install a though hull head with it's associated holding tank and I dislike porta-potties.
This seems the best option, particularly now as the Aus $ is fairly strong against the US $.

[Sven Heesterman]

Here in Holland it will become illegal to flush solids in 2009 so this issue is becoming interesting for us too.

Am I correct that in the US it is illegal to have a toilet that flushes outside the boat so everything that you put in the toilet has te be removed from the boat rather then put in to the sea? In Holland it will only be illegal to FLUSH SOLIDS. Grey water flushing will be ok, as well as using a bucket.
Sven

[George Ray]

http://www.boatus.com/cleanwater/environmental/MSD.htm

The US Law:

Federal law says that untreated sewage (even if it's been dosed with a deodorant product) can NOT be discharged in U.S. waters out to 3 miles offshore. This means the sewage from a portable toilet or a Type III holding tank can not be discharged unless you are in the ocean more than 3 miles offshore.

You are not required to have a toilet/head on your boat. (In fact, many people choose a portable toilet on their boat.) However, if you do have an installed toilet on your boat, you must have a USCG certified MSD Type I, II, or III attached to that toilet.

Federal law states that if you have a holding tank for untreated waste with a "Y" valve, it must be secured in the closed position while operating in U.S. waters. Using a non-releasable wire tie, padlock, or removal of the valve handle is considered adequate securing of the device.

**************************************
A composting toilet is in our future and I am watching this thread with interest. The boat I sailed on in this years Great Chesapeake Bay Schooner Race has an Airhead and the owner has mixed reviews. However, The complaints were not directed at the toilet itself but the difficulty in getting a large partying crew to pay attention to the special requirements of the unit.