Porch Paints Strike Again

[KAIROS]

I have reviewed the many threads about using house paints and house deck paints on boat topsides (above waterline!). I have a couple of months til I refinish (wood) the boat and am taking my time deciding which route to go.

The mahogany hull is currently finished with Cetol per the previous owner. I like the idea of a finish like Certol that does not trap moisture against the hull, and I like how easy it touches up and the no-sand finishing each year. A clear finish also allows keeping track of the condition of all the topside wood.

However, the hull is 43 years old, stained and with other variations, and dark enough that it gets too hot in the summer. A seam opened up above the waterline last summer which we learned about while on the starboard tack when we notice large quantities of water sloshing around in the cabin. :eek:

So, I'd like a Cetol-like substance that breaths a bit but contains solids that would lighten the finish so the hull stays cooler. I came across this Consumer Reports article (link below), which implies that house deck stains by CABOT far surpass Cetol (non-marine version) in durability and quality of finish. And you can get different types of the Cabot stains, alkyde or latex, in a range of colors (opaque) and tints (stains). About $35/gallon.

1. What about using a light colored opaque Cabot stain in place of topside paint to achieve brightening of the hull.

2. How would a semi-transparent house deck stain look and work? Apparently, this would allow some of the hull texture and grain to show, but a light tint would help keep the hull cooler.

Cabot sells 4 oz. cans for test purposes. I could try it and if I don't like the way it looks just paint over. But if I like the looks, that doesn't mean it's a good choice for the boat. I could be convinced to use old tried and true paint.

Somebody who really knows wood boats just told me to use latex house paint. Thought I'd mention that to stir up the forumites again.

Comments Please.

http://www.cabotstain.com/cabot/products/siding_trans.jsp

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/paint/deck-treatments/reports/cr-quick-recommendations/index.htm

[few3]

One of the benefits of using a solid, semi-solid, and toner-type stains on a house is they wear off eventually and do not build a heavy film like paint does. I really can't imagine the cabot OVT and Semi stains lasting any amount of time. Without the heavy buildup of pigment in a solid film, the radiant reflective benefit would be non to zero.

[pipefitter]

Not "Latex" house paint but waterbased "acrylic" housepaint.Huge difference. Latex is liken to putting vinyl wallpaper on wood and alot of times,peels off in much the same way. Only thing I might ever use latex on is sheetrock or masonry. A good test is a day of painting overhead. Latex will come off rather easily in the shower. You won't have such instant luck with acrylic.

Alkyd paints get their bad rep mostly from misuse. A good alkyd solid paint is put on with minimal mil thicknesses and is maintained at near that thickness throughout it's life. The problems arise when repainting over the old with minimal prep which creates layers less than adequate of a good primer. As pro painters,we removed what we were to replace,firstly chalk,chips and flakes were repaired and brought to surface with the rest.Ever notice how the original painting lasts alot longer than the following recoats?

Light colored,semi transparent stains are still going to show darker over dark wood.In a boat,it seems it would look like an unfinished paint job that didn't make it past primer.Maybe sanding and wood bleach are your answer and then following with a normal staining process.

[hansp77]

Latex? Acrylic?

My boat for most of its 45 years has had its topsides (and deck until I changed that) painted with exterior house enamel (oil based).
Acrylic as I understand it is ok for inside the cabin, but for topsides and deck? none of the boatbuilders and boat shop people have ever come across have ever recomended waterbased acrylic.:confused:

Just my 2 cents.

[Kim Whitmyre]

I took the forward beam of my catamaran off and "wooded" it. Covered it with epoxy and fiberglass, and then used Benjamin Moore's Porch and Floor paint. A water-based acrylic latex, epoxy-fortified (whatever that means). This was in April of 2005. I rolled and tipped 3 coats. It sits in the Southern California sun day in, day out, and is holding up very nicely.

My son and I relashing the beam:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/456206199_1509a80110_o.jpg

[Thorne]

Due to VOC regs we can't get most oil based paints here in California, or only with difficulty. They can often still be ordered from out of state suppliers like Kirby.

I agree with Pipefitter. I suspect that a light wash of stain over dark wood will look strange, but try a test patch and judge for yourself.

[Tylerdurden]

One of my boat that I built and painted, five years ago still looking good.. Yes, I am testing it, it sit out there in weather, seasons after seasons, never covered.. I use it quite often, paint is great..
http://www.rustoleum.com/brand.asp?frm_brand_id=14&SBL=1&slid=1
Exterior gloss acrylic latex.. It is much better than "porch paint".. Easy clean up with soap and water.. Good solid pigments.. Stick very well to epoxy directly without primer..
Here how she sat everyday, all seasons..
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_0009.jpg
On my client's boats, I use the real water-based marine paint by System 3 "WR-LPU".. No short cuts allowed..

Dude, I have the exact same pirouge in my back yard doing the exact same thing with exactly the same color. We must be distant relatives or something? It was my kids adventure boat.

[Kim Whitmyre]

Due to VOC regs we can't get most oil based paints here in California, or only with difficulty. They can often still be ordered from out of state suppliers like Kirby.

I agree with Pipefitter. I suspect that a light wash of stain over dark wood will look strange, but try a test patch and judge for yourself.

Benjamin Moore's "Metal and Wood Enamel" is an alkyd oil base, Thorne. Good paint. Comes in all sheens.

[Brian Palmer]

The VOC regs, even those in California's South Coast and Bay Area Air Quality Management Districts, exempt paints in containers of 1 liter (1.057 quart) or less.

So, you should still be able to find oil-based, solvent borne house paint in quart cans.

-- Brian

[hansp77]

What's the deal with the ban on Oil-based sovlent borne house paint over there?
I mean a couple of months ago when I painted our kitchen and bathroom, I did get high as a kite- giggling with my buddy like school-girls, but is it really that bad?:confused:

[Brian Palmer]

The issue is the formation of ground level ozone, smog. The volatile organic compounds (VOC) mixed with nitrogen oxides (NOx) and with sunlight form ozone (three oxygen atoms in a single molecule, instead of two).

States and the federal EPA have regs to reduce VOC from all sorts of sources: auto refinishing, consumer products, metal part finishing, wood furniture coatings, aerospace coatings, portable fuel containers, lawn and garden engines, and, of course, transportation (autos and trucks, etc).

They also have regs to reduce NOx from combustion sources, including transportation, power plants, diesel generators, etc. You have to reduce both, especially in areas that have large natural sources of VOCs, such as some types of vegetation.

[pipefitter]

Florida climate has always been a thorough testing ground for exterior house paints. Water based Acrylic lasts 3 to 1 over alkyd enamel. The first most noticeable attribute is it's resistance to mildew. It also moves with the wood where alkyd cracks rather quickly on places such as fascia trim and such. Especially with the substandard lumber being used in modern construction.

[KAIROS]

...I suspect that a light wash of stain over dark wood will look strange, but try a test patch and judge for yourself.

I imagine it looking like unfinished bleached mahogany if we get the bare hull to a pretty consistent tone. If we can't make the hull nice it would look splotchy and bad, and then we should just go with paint. We'll see how the test goes.

I'd like to be able to keep track of the wood condition. Never liked the idea of a clear-finished hull before, but now that I've inherited one I see the value.

[KAIROS]

One of the benefits of using a solid, semi-solid, and toner-type stains on a house is they wear off eventually and do not build a heavy film like paint does. I really can't imagine the cabot OVT and Semi stains lasting any amount of time. Without the heavy buildup of pigment in a solid film, the radiant reflective benefit would be non to zero.

If I use a semi-transparent stain it is only to arrive at some compromise between a clear finish as I have now, and a lighter finish showing some wood. Any lighter would help, but, yes, I expect the best thing for the boat is white-ish alkyd paint. Thanks.

[KAIROS]

What's the deal with the ban on Oil-based sovlent borne house paint over there?
I mean a couple of months ago when I painted our kitchen and bathroom, I did get high as a kite- giggling with my buddy like school-girls, but is it really that bad?:confused:

For a real good time use paint stripper indoors...causes cancer but only if used in California. Must combine with the other unique chemicals in the air down there or something;)

[KAIROS]

. .... Light colored, semi transparent stains are still going to show darker over dark wood. In a boat,it seems it would look like an unfinished paint job that didn't make it past primer.

Yes. But I lived in a house where all the woodwork had a nearly opaque stain on it. The wood texture and grain showed through the white. There was discoloration here and there, but the trim was probably fir.

At first I thought it looked a little strange, but after a while I got to like the look of it. Seeing the wood, yet it was subtle and protected. And different than the typical.

On a boat the look might indeed be described as '...like an unfinished paint job that didn't make it past primer...'. That would be different. I don't know if it would look bad. Maybe I'm thinking of a lacey nightie I once saw.....