Wooden boatplan...

[byggeren30]

I want to build a wooden boat on 50 fot. :)
The boat must have a:
Wide beam,
Big mirror in the stern,
Straight bow/stem,
House on the deck,
With 2-two mast,
"popup deck" in the aft.
Long keel
:) :rolleyes: :eek:
The rigg is not that important, for i am going to have a special rigg, design for one man sailing.
Is it ment for living in the boat, :)
so i need the beam and draft in the boat. :)
I have found that program, FreeShip, but i do not now have to use it.
Can anybody helpe me to a suggestion to some source on the internet,
or elsewere where i can get hold of the drawings to a boat like that.
Or where i can learn more about FreeShip.
I hope that some one with good knowledge will reply, and learn me some thing new.
A am a woodenboat builder from Norway,
so a can some things, but not finding the "Perfect" boat fore me.

Greetings from Kenneth Gjerde from Norway...! :D

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I am not certain that Freeship is powerful enough to design a successful sailing boat of the size you want. Naval architects use more powerful professional programs like Rhino, and others, which allow the designer to test all the options available.
A successful large sailboat is a compromise of many factors some of which cannot be reduced to numbers. The latest commercial computer programs allow the designer to test all these assumptions before he completes a design.
Plans for a 50 foot sailboat are normally produced by a naval architect and can be very expensive. If there are such plans available free on the internet I have not heard of them.

[byggeren30]

Can you put me in contract, or name some that is not expensive for me..?I have not that big budget fore the boat.
Tusen takk for din hjelp... (from Norway) :)

[Bruce Taylor]

Actually, quite a few professional design outfits are using FREE!ship/DELFTship. Here's a partial list:

http://www.delftship.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=55

The FREE!ship/DELFTship design database includes vessels of all types, from wind surfers to container ships.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p98327730fcb0899c4ac0de63075c3f4c/e9bbcb4e.jpg

There are other choices of course, including Maxsurf and RhinoMarine. For a fairly complete list of the various design options, see the software forum at boatdesign.net: http://boatdesign.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

The two polls ("best design software" and "best free or low cost design software") are a good place to start.

[Ian McColgin]

Some of your terms - big mirror in the stern - are a bit opaque. Some considerations, the pilot house and what I take to be a poop deck to accomodate a capacious after-gallery, perhaps with a mirror over a nice big double berth, make sense. Some - like why insist on beamy right off the bat? and what's with the straight stem? - are not clearly indicated.

It would really help to specify the number of live-aboard people, anticipated cruising ground, experience of skipper and crew . . . you know, useful info.

This boat will not be cheap no matter what. Figure costs in quarters - hull a quarter, accomodation a quarter, mechanicals a quarter and rig a quarter. (That's why a motor boat is only 3/4th of a real boat.) Against these, the cost of competantly developed plans is trivial. Not the place to save.

Among US designers, Dave Garr, Phil Bolger, George Buehler, and Ted Brewer have stock plans that meet what might be your needs. Some (google Ted Brewer) even have what amount to study plans - profile and accomodation drawings, not lines - right on the internet. If you like traditional and have a designer who can work from it, something like L Francis Herreshoff's partially developed "Manana" might be pretty nifty.

One of the benefits of actually working with a living NA, even if you purchase a stock design, is that you can get the why of some features that you might otherwise change for the worse and you can get good thoughts on what modifications make the boat better suited to your needs.

G'luck

[byggeren30]

Thanks fore all your help mister Bruce Taylor.. :)

To Ian McColgin:
First i am going to live in the boat my selfe, than whit a woman, baby....
I no that the boat is not going to be cheap, but i will hold the cost down.
Maybe it vill cost from 400.000,.- to 600.000,- kr (Norway).
Because i am going to build the boat my selfe.

[paladin]

First....you are not going to build that boat for 600,000 Kronur.....You cannot build the hull and deck for that amount, nor can you afford the ballast in that price..... and as stated previously, the sails and rigging will cost about that, but not to the point that you can single hand the boat.....expect to pay about 4-5 times that amount to get the boat in the water, and another 400000-600000 Kro9nur to outfit it properly to sail away......
To be realistic...you can build a 40-44 foot good quality hull/deck/interior for that amount in good quality, expect to spend 600,000-800,000 for sails and other equipment.

[byggeren30]

I get most of the wood fore free, and alot of free help. So you can just go away, for you do not no what your talking about. Go paddleing...

[Ian McColgin]

I take your price range as capping out at about $100,000 US. It can be done. Especially if you keep things simple. For example, I've lived aboard for 25 years with no pressure water system. Foot pumps are better. And no hot water system. Heating on a good stove and using a modified hand pressurized garden mister for hot water for showers and cleaning is a very cheap, easy and cost effective system.

My current boat has refrigeration, came that way, but former boats did not. It's utterly not needed and not worth the price, compared to ice or just not bothering.

Granuaile was 55' - the Herrashoff Marco Polo with only 10' beam but way more than enough room for a family of however many. Tonnage gives a better idea of both cost and accomodation.

And the ongoing costs are quite important as well. Granuaile - 20 tons, took almost thrice as much bottom paint as my previous Alden 43' and 12 ton schooner Goblin. My current catboat Marmalade - 25' and 6 tons - uses less than half that.

Same with rigging and everything. You'd not believe the exponential rise in costs for turnbuckles, wire, sails, anchors, dock fees.

If you're on a life budget, stay smaller. Maybe try a nice 35' boat with a seriously personalized accomodation. The life afloat is too wonderful to saddle yourself with too much boat and not enough freedom.

You've not mentioned your experience. There's no reason a dab hand can't handle a 20 ton or more boat alone. I'm far from the best sailor on this forum and I've done it in all conditions. But it does take skill and practice. If you get into a boat too large for your skill, you'll just not sail as much.

Keep posting and G'luck

[byggeren30]

http://www.norgesbat.no/asp/3023-Lt.jpg (http://www.norgesbat.no/DB/bildeside.asp?RefNr=3023)
This is a god boat...
This is L: 40 fot, B: 3,85 m, D: 1,8 m, Weight: 12000 kg.

[byggeren30]

Thanks Ian McColgin.:)

That was a positiv letter.
I am going to have it simple and easy, and build it my selfe.
I am a wooden boat builder.:)

[Willem]

So you can just go away, for you do not no what your talking about. Go paddleing...

From a medieval prayer: "Save us, Lord, from the fury of the Vikings."

(I guess I could act as a wise guy and ask if manners and politeness are scarce commodities in Norway. But then again, I'm still new on these forums, have only 15 postings. It's not up to me to have a big mouth, if you get my drift. :p)

[StevenBauer]

Kenneth, I think Willem has a point here. I know that you are new here but rude behavior is never a good way to start out. If you had been here longer you would know that Chuck (Paladin) has solo-circumnavigated three times in boats that he built himself. And he's one of the most generous and helpful people that post on these forums. You would be wise to listen to what he has to say.

Steven

[Bruce Taylor]

you would know that Chuck (Paladin) has solo-circumnavigated three times in boats that he built himself. And he's one of the most generous and helpful people that post on these forums. You would be wise to listen to what he has to say.

Ditto. Both Ian and Chuck deserve your complete attention and respect (even when they disagree).

[cjp63]

For a wooden boat builder he asks alot of questions that one would think a wooden boat builder would already know. Well put Willem.

[byggeren30]

First of all will i say sorry to Paladin. But i am tired of people that is just trying to put me down. You can`t do that... you can`t make that...
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT. All of this word are puting me down, and i do not nead that... I am just locking for the perfect drawing to my boat, can some of you help me whit what...?:)

[byggeren30]

http://cache.finn.no/mmo/2/976/608/2_878640442.jpg
This is a fine boat to...

[Bruce Taylor]

Ian mentioned George Buehler, author of Backyard Boatbuilding.

http://www.paracay.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/INT174.jpg

He would be a builder/designer after your own heart, I think.

Here's a list of his stock plans:

http://www.georgebuehler.com/photothumbs.html

[katiedobe]

Ditto on using Buehler's designs. He has some wonderfully large boats in there.
And really what you are thinking of doing is a huge project, I mean Huge!!
Do you have a place to build it close to water?
Do you have lots of help around to move the large planks around?

I have no doubt that you can build this boat, but at what cost to you in terms of not just money but time and life.

The 40 foot motorsailer is very nice, do you have plans for that?

[paladin]

My remarks were not meant to be disparaging....rather more realistic. First you asked about a 50 foot boat, then you posted a 40 foot motorsailor........My remarks were based on mean average income and costs in your area. You state that the wood is free, and you have free labor.....that is well and good...the wood will be perhaps 10% of the cost of your hull...which as you say is free....The labor which is expensive...as you say is also free......a properly ballasted boat of 40 feet will have 16000 to 17000 pounds of ballast, if you purchase lead in your country and have it cast into a keel the approximate end cost will be perhaps on the order of 90,000 kronur.....please correct me if I am wrong. The price of copper is also very high...so the cost of bronze fasteners for the hull will also take a substantial portion of your available cash.....
I have to Idea as to the building technique that you will employ, but should you decide to use iron nails it would of course be much less expensive.
I assume that the engine is free or you will rebuild a marine engine, or perhaps an automotive engine....unless you obtain the marine manifolds/exhaust/cooling system etc free of charge you will find it also expensive, or perhaps you are going to a marine salvage yard....you will also need the shaft log, propeller and drive train components.......I suspect that at this point that you will have spent your entire budget...and you still have no internal systems, electrical, plumbing, water........no sails or rigging, nor the equipment to single hand the systems...
I was trying to be realistic so that you might consider other alternatives or possibly a smaller boat to get on the water, rather than spend several years trying to get to your goal and go far beyond your budget. The larger the boat the more capitol required to operate and maintain it.
...and....I have lived for a few months in your country....and did some repairs to my 44 foot boat, and worked on a friends 42 foot boat, and have some ideas of costs for materials and services.....from nearly thirty years ago....and it would have been difficult then to build the boat you envision for 600,000 kronur.

[Ian McColgin]

byggeren30, I don’t know if you cruise the whole forum, but here’s a cautionary tale. Why not put all that free wood into a boat that needs some rebuilding?

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=64572

[byggeren30]

Thanks to all people for god idea`s...
But i do not want to start on some others people`s boat...
The boat that is 40 fot is just similar to that one i whant...
That book "backyard boatbuilding", i have it...
I want a boat that is 50 fot long, as wide as posible, and similar to that boat on the photo, that is 40 fot.
Mayby close to a boat name "Jakt" (from Norway), it is to be hoped to be a old kopy, so i can get some fondings (mony).
Help me...:)

[James McMullen]

Why don't you give your list of requirements to a naval architect or two and at least get a quote on what it would cost to have your perfect design drawn for you? :confused:

It might not cost as much as you fear, and of course every øre you spent would be worth it if it saved you from an expensive or dangerous mistake in dimensions, scantlings, or seaworthiness issues. :eek:

Maybe you could save money if you could get a student naval architect to do it for you as a way for him to develop experience. :rolleyes:

I've never used so many smilies in a post before--you've corrupted me! :D :D :D :eek:

[byggeren30]

Thanks for so many :D :D :D . It is a god ide. But i nead to find a drowing that is wery close, than i can re draw it...:D :D I am locking fore the shape of the boat, not the sitse. :D :D . Kenneth.

[Uncle Duke]

A few questions out of curiosity -
What construction method is your preference (you mention that, for you, wood is free - does that imply plank-on-frame only?).
Are you set on monohull, or would multi-hulls be in consideration?

[kc8pql]

Buehler's 50' Melquiades fits your description.
http://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/JHvoorklein.jpghttp://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/Mel%2050%20profile.jpg

[byggeren30]

That is a beautiful boat....:D
I am only thinking of a mono hull, and moust of the wood is "free". Pay him back in helping him whit tings.
Back to the boat... The stem is perfect, and it is just missing a big "mirrow" in the stern, and a "popup-deck" in the stern.
Beautiful boat.... And the length is perfect... :D
Where can i find the drawings of this boat...?

[paladin]

If you "google" George Buehler" you will find his address and phone numbers. He sells study plans and the complete plans sets.

[kc8pql]

:D
Where can i find the drawings of this boat...?

The plans, less offsets of course, are here:
http://www.georgebuehler.com/Melquiades%2050.html

[byggeren30]

Thanks for the idea of the boat, but this one is a litle to smal in the stern (back). Thanks anyway..:)

[byggeren30]

Do any one else have a proposal to a boat on 50 fot long, and enormous behind and waist. A boat to live in, an sail in..

[jp4sail]

Hi

Have you thought about getting a trawler? It might be worth it.

JPaes

[Wild Dingo]

If memory serves wasnt forumite "George." s boat "Dalia" a Buelher design?

[Pierre LaRochelle]

Iv'e been patient long enough.........get some experience on this subject. Perhaps you can start with Dave Gerr's book "The Nature of Boats," as your line of questioning borders on what one would expect from a "Greenhorn"......i.e. Rookie!

PL

[Uncle Duke]

It's a pity that you are restricting yourself to such a small boat - a design like the Thames River sailing barges might meet your needs but those, of course, averaged around 80-90 feet.
They are surprisingly fast and are, of course, roomy. Perhaps you could get enough more free wood and free labor that this would be a candidate, though. The originals were usually sailed by a crew of two, so your "special rig, designed for one man sailing" might be a natural fit. Or perhaps your wife and baby could help, although it seems apparent that you don't really want any help.

Thames_sailing_barge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_sailing_barge)

[James McMullen]

Pierre,
There's no question about it. . . .it crossed that border long ago. . . . .
But one can only lead a horse to water. . . .

Byggeren30,
How about a scow schooner like Alma? They have a big wide stern--and a big wide bow to boot!
http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/5009/2495451300088484686S425x425Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2495451300088484686kYDWIt)
http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/5249/2255932350088484686S425x425Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2255932350088484686pNKbBL) http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/5777/2092468920088484686S425x425Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2092468920088484686zIGfzk)
http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/5643/2282573150088484686S425x425Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2282573150088484686YKhNhv)

That stern wide enough for ya? 22.6 feet across! The construction method was designed from the start to make them relatively inexpensive and easy to build by non-professional shipwrights. Alma's been sailing since 1891!

[Uncle Duke]

But one can only lead a horse to water.
:D
"You can lead a horse to water
But you can't make it drink"

is followed, of course, by:

"You can lead a horticulture
But you can't make her think".

[S.V. Airlie]

Can you put me in contract, or name some that is not expensive for me..?I have not that big budget fore the boat.
Tusen takk for din hjelp... (from Norway)

Umm figure depending.. Chuck ( Paladin ) will give you details on Asian.. builders.. but anyway, 2500.00/foot US.. It is not so much the hull but everything that goes on it.( rigging.. lines, sails, stantions.. my god a long list of pricey stuff.. engine depending 4-6grand type of wood ya want ) Even if you build it yourself.

Is there a reason that you want such a large boat?

[paladin]

Perhaps I misread something...but I think he's looking for something unique so that he can get funding from another source.......or he's trolling...my opinion which isn't worth much.