rove sets

[chergui]

I attempted riveting my boat last night after completing the planking. I just drove the rivets through and left all the roves to the end. Maybe this wasn't a good idea because it's hard to get at them but that's the way it is.

Does everyone use a rove set to set the rove? I drilled a hole in a piece of mahogany and used that as my set. I bent over the rivet over almost every time. Does a rove set help much?

The roves are also very tight. I tried widening the holes with a nail set but it's hard to get the size right. I have roves for 12 and 14g rivets, but the holes in the roves are the same size even though the diameter of the rivets are different. The only thing different about them is the diameter of the rove itself, not the hole to receive the rivet. Is this right?

[Jay Greer]

I use a hunk of drive shaft that I drilled on my lathe.
Jay

[Clencher]

You really need a rove set/roving iron/burr set/rove punch call it what you will, to do the job properly. They are commercially available here in Britain (but a bit pricey!) so assume they must be in Canada and the U.S. Wood with a hole in or pieces of pipe which I’ve also seen used don’t do the job like a proper rove set. You could well distort the nails/rivets within the planking which you don’t want, and the roves may not sit tight and even against the planking either.

If you can’t get one commercially they are fairly easy to make/have made. I had a couple made from some old heavyweight centre punches I had spare. I took the temper out by heating to make them easier to drill then had the local engineering works drill a hole in the end, just oversize for 12 and 14 gauge nails, and dish the end with a countersink to suit the head of the rove. A couple of different sizes is ideal. A piece of tapered steel bar about ¾” in diameter tapering to about 3/8”, drilled and dished will do the same job. Armed with one of these the fact that the holes in the roves are the same size will make no difference.

Much better to rove the nails/rivets up as you go along, it keeps everything ‘roved up tight’ and is far less tedious.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I use a bit of mild steel rod that I drilled down, but when I had to use humungous roves over size 1 nails, I used a bit of pipe - it worked quite well!

You do need to use quite a lot of effort to get the roves down the nail properly. This is normal and correct.

[yorgie]

Jon,Are you ready for your frames yet?

Chris

[chergui]

Hey Chris. Depends on how exact you would like the length's to be? My plan was to rivet it and get it off the jig and then bend in some temp frames for exact measurements for each frame. It sounded like that's what you preferred so as not to waste any of that nice wood. But let me know. The riveting might take a bit longer than I had hoped.

[Thorne]

Doesn't this also depend on the shape of the roves? For flat roves, I'd always thought a chunk of pipe was fine -- but for the dished roves you'd sure want a shaped rove set.

[nedL]

I've always just used the same 4" length of brass (something or other...., actually looks like a piece of brass cutain rod, like 1/4" brass pipe), its worked fine for me for over 30 years now. Though it is getting a bit mushroomed on one end. :)

[yorgie]

Jon,aproximite lengths are fine.Just bend a tape measure into where the frames go and add on several inches extra.Just let me know how wide your frames are and I can mill the boards to that thickness.Having the lengths also lets me buck the logs at the bow and minimize grain runout.

Chris

[chergui]

Ok Chris. I'll get you the measurements this weekend.

The roves are dished. A local machine shop didn't want to make it so I'm going to order this one: http://faeringdesigninc.com/tl-rove.html
Looks like it will do the job.

[wbrent]

The last time I did some riveting I had the same problem with the holes in the roves. No matter which size rove I was using, the hole in the rove was the same size. This made it impossible to get the rove over the nail without doing damage. After some calling around I was told that now you need a "rove punch" to get the proper size hole to match the rivet. Of course the punch cost more than the rivets and roves so I ended up drilling out each rove individually before using. That worked ok but was a bit time consuming.

[Bob Cleek]

To get back to the topic at hand... Why pay $18 for something you can make for free in ten minutes? Just take a piece of solid rod (old bronze prop shafts are great), or anything, really, and drill a hole a bit bigger than your nail shank in it. If you want to get fancy, dish it out with a countersink. (Not too much, though, because you want to flatten the dished rove just a little bit.)

Now, somebody screwed up. Roves are supposed to be matched to the nails. In the better catalogs, they will have charts telling you which roves go with which nails. As I expect you know, the hole in the rove is supposed to be just a bit smaller than the nail shank diameter so that when you drive down the rove with the set it will bite into the shank a bit and stay put. Flattening it just a tad will make it grab a little tighter at the very bottom where you want it to.

If you are bending your nails trying to drive the roves, the holes are clearly too small. You've got a bunch of mismatched roves and nails there, my friend. I'd opt for trying to return them and expect the supplier to make good on the order. They should have made sure you had matched roves. Yes, I suppose you could drill them out, or you could mount an iron nail the right size in a vise and and stretch them a bit, but that's really doing it the hard way.

[chergui]

The last time I did some riveting I had the same problem with the holes in the roves. No matter which size rove I was using, the hole in the rove was the same size. This made it impossible to get the rove over the nail without doing damage. After some calling around I was told that now you need a "rove punch" to get the proper size hole to match the rivet. Of course the punch cost more than the rivets and roves so I ended up drilling out each rove individually before using. That worked ok but was a bit time consuming.

Well that's very interesting. But the diameter of the roves are different. I specifically asked for a 14g rove to fit the 14g rivet when I ordered from the Wooden Boat Foundation in Port Townsend. And the roves are different sizes for sure. The holes aren't. I don't see why I should have to modify the roves. I will call them and ask what is up. But I think their answer will be a rove punch.

Before getting the rivets from the WBF I bought some 14g roves from Lee Valley. I assumed I bought the wrong ones. The WBF sent me the exact same thing. WBF also sent some 12g roves rivets. So the 12/14g roves from the same source are different sizes but with the same sized holes. How annoying.

[StevenBauer]

I use a big brass plumb bob from the surplus store (Mardens for you Mainers) Unscrew the steel tip and drill out the threads to fit your rivet.

Steven

[wbrent]

Wooden Boat Foundation is where I got my roves and rivets too. They are the ones who told me I need the "punch." I'll be interested to hear what they tell you. Drilling out the roves was no big deal if you don't want to buy the punch.

[Bob Cleek]

These guys seem to know what they are talking about. Never did business with them. Maybe somebody else can comment.

http://faeringdesigninc.com/fst-rve.html

[chergui]

I went through the 12g roves more carefully and it appears that only some of them have a smaller sized hole. Most of them are actually slightly bigger. They still look too small though.

[DDan]

I wonder if part of the problem with rove hole size is the style nail they are meant for: either plain copper nails or the rose head version - which I believe have shanks that are not quite round. Could it be that you need different size roves for the same size nail depending on style?

I'm planning on using rivets on plywood plank laps shortly, but haven't done any riveting yet. I haven't decided which style nail to use yet.

[waters'l]

These guys seem to know what they are talking about. Never did business with them. Maybe somebody else can comment.

http://faeringdesigninc.com/fst-rve.html


I got my rivets and the rove set tool from these guys this winter. give them a call and talk with them. They really seem to know their stuff. The rove set tool worked really well for me. It drove the rove down smoothly and bet the dish just enough so that the rove held the nail in place while I was preparing to peen it. I don't think that it's a bad idea to make one, but if not, the tool that Faering designs sells is pretty good.

[dmede]

I'm using flat burrs on my rivets, got them from Jamestown and they are a tight fit. When held in place with the rove set and just tapping the nail in they set over the nail just fine and give a good tight fit. I bent a couple of nails but I think it was becasue I was trying to get them in faster with heavier blows. The tapping seems to work, the burr or rove will resist setting at first but after a few taps it slips on nice and easy.

I could have used the next size larger burr but they would have been a slip fit and would not stay on the nail until after peening over the head, too much work to chase all of those burrs across the shop floor so I went with the tight ones.