Smallest practical circumnavigator

[slusher_ben]

Hello, I greatly enjoy reading the threads posted here, such as the most recent prettiest boat under 30 feet. I'm curious what some of you might consider the smallest boat that you would feel comfortable in alone and a thousand miles from shore. I realize some intrepid sailors here would put a junk rig on a bathtub and set course but I was thinking more along the lines of Benfords HAPPY, Atkins PERIGEE or MacNaughtons FARTHING. If you couldn't tell I just read John Guzzwells account of Trekka (again).

Thanks

[George Roberts]

Alone, 1000 miles from shore ---

Any boat that comes along is good enough for me.

---

The answer to your question depends on how much you wish to be alone 1000 miles from land. If you want to leave because guys with torches and guns are chasing you you might settle for a boat much different than if you wish to run your business as you float along.

[Ian McColgin]

Trekka certainly did some amazing stuff. The question comes down to your longest leg. There are ways around the world that easily contemplate more than sixty days at sea, which is somewhere past the max one could provision a two ton boat for unless you take the Lindemann approach to drinking salt water and living on raw fish.

A slightly larger yacht and avoiding the stormy capes, ala Tanya Abai et al, would be more comfortable and normal.

G'luck

[slusher_ben]

While I haven't been chased with the threat of bodily harm in quite awhile I was thinking of the minimalistic approach simply because you want to be there.

[JimD]

...along the lines of Benfords HAPPY, Atkins PERIGEE or MacNaughtons FARTHING.

Here's one I have the study plans for and still haven't completely talked myself out of building:

TIDEWAY 14
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Tideway14d1.gif The Tideway 14 is a modern stitch and tape version of the old heavy displacement pocket cruisers that were popular in the 30’s and 40’s. By using modern construction techniques (using pre shaped ply hull panels, frames and transom) we have brought back to life a type of boat that offers good long distance cruising in a small package. She has 2 full length berths and plenty of stowage space and indeed, could be fitted out with a smaller cabin and larger cockpit to suit your needs. The standard arrangement shows a long ply box keel filled with concrete and scrap iron but she may also be fitted with bilge keels (also shown) or a centreboard. She may also be fitted with internal water ballast making her lighter to trail. All fittings have been kept to a minimum to keep costs low and if you would like to fit her out in a different way (ie. an open layout), we can supply all necessary new frame shapes and details. LOD 14’6’’; Beam 6’1’’; Draft 2’1’’; Weight with 700lbs. of ballast 1900 lbs. NOTE - Details are now shown on the Tideway drawings for round bilged strip plank construction and a junk rig. http://www.selway-fisher.com/Tideway14p1.jpg

Edited to add: That reminds me. Think I'll email Paul Fisher and ask him about stretching Tideway 14 to about 16 feet. She might go a bit faster and could really benefit from the extra storage space for long legs.

[Tom Lathrop]

One sailor who has been ocean sailing in very small boats for many years is Sven Yrvind of "Bris" fame. You might know him by his original name of Sven Lundin. Yrvind roughly translated is "whirling wind". I was able to meet and have some conversation with him this past weekend at Cedar Key Florida where he gave a short talk on his life at the annual small boat gathering.

His website is: http://www.yrvind.com/ Most of it is in Swedish but is slowly being translated into English. The first page shows him on a Swedish postage stamp. The little device he is holding to his eye is a sextant of his own devising which is about the size of a dime. He described to me how it worked but I was not able to follow it. He still plans to make a full circumnavigation by way of Cape Horn is his next tiny boat. Very interesting fellow with some iconoclastic views on how to design a seaworthy small sailboat.

[JimD]

His website is: http://www.yrvind.com/ interesting fellow with some iconoclastic views on how to design a seaworthy small sailboat.


http://www.yrvind.com/images/blek2.jpg

[JimConlin]

If the cost of acquiring and later selling the boat is a concern, the glass cruising boats of the sixties are worth a look. Ther were wholesome designs, robustly built and are quite inexpensive. I'm thinking of boats like the Triton and Vanguard by Pearson.

[outofthenorm]

Ian got it right of course - the size question is really a capacity question. How many people, how much water, food, stores and gear, for how long at a stretch, with a good amount in reserve. That gives you a ballpark minimum displacement, which gives you parameters for length beam and draft. The fun part is that every single thing is a variable - trade speed for comfort, convenience for cost, upwind for off-wind, deep draft offshore or shallow draft gunkholing, etc, etc.

It's a fun exercise. I've day-dreamed about it often and decided that about 32-odd feet and 8 tons or so would be about right for me and my mate. And Jim is right - you could do worse than a sound, vintage 60's cruiser. I think Tania Abai went round in a Contessa 32 IIRC.

- Norm

[Wild Dingo]

Smallest PRACTICAL circumnavigator

Emphasis mine... while some mad men and women have set forth in the proverbial bathtub I think as a PRACTICAL boat for circumnavigation goes Coot would be right up there.

[Iceboy]

John Welsford's Swaggie perhaps

[MarkC]

Welsford's 'Swaggie'

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/swaggie/index.htm

I think it has enough volume to carry supplies.

Snap! with iceboy - like minds!

[Brian Palmer]

As described in "My Old Man and the Sea," a father and son sailed from Rhode Island, through the Panama Canal, and then counter clockwise around South America, passing Cape Horn to port, in a FRP Vertue 25.

The author of "Sailing the Pacific: A Voyage Across the Longest Stretch of Water on Earth, and a Journey into Its Past," sailed a 28 foot sloop from England, to New Zealand, then to South America and back to New Zealand.

Both good reading on small boats sailing around big chunks of the globe, if not complete circles.

-- Brian

[YMT]

Not so small at 26' (8M). but practical. And doing it.
http://www.kayitsiz.com

[John E Hardiman]

Here is how I think it plays out...

~33'+ : easy for 2 or a family with kids, done many times.

26-33' : ok for 1 or 2, have to watch passage length and loadout weights, commonly done.

22-26' : Spartan and loadout weight a concern. Possibly singlehanded for the long legs, weather and currents a big player. About minimum for effective and timely trans-Pacific or upwind route. Uncommon, but a fair number accomplished.

<22' : Heroic adventure. Singlehanded almost exclusively. Weather planning and downwind route a must. Starting to get into custom design territory. Newsworthy, but several accomplished.

<18' : Custom boat for a record stunt.

[PVanderwaart]

I can't speak for him, but my guess is that John Welsford would rather you to with Sundowner than Swaggie:
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sundowner/updates.htm

[paladin]

I dunno......depends on whatcha have in mind. A few years ago I gove my son a Pelican that I played with when I was working in Milpitas....and it's literally falling apart. He wanted something that was a bit bigger but could use the same sails and such/spars, similar rigging.....I read about a couple of guys that built a stretched Pelican and sailed it to Hawaii........so.......
I redrew the basic lines of the Pelican giving it about 3 1/2 more inches of beam, a couple of inches to the depth, gave it a "V" bottom with a flat making it a multichine boat, and giving it about 160 more pounds of displacement, then I made the topsides curved so as to use strip planking to increase the bouancy..........and a few other things.....so far it looks like it would be a really neat coastal cruiser at about 16'8" and would be substantially more capable of crossing to Hawaii.....the ballasted board (135 pounds) helped quite a bit......all up dead weight for a trailer is about 580 pounds.
For something elese.....I looked at Swaggie....because I was also looking at something similar to a Flicka....so I drew a couple of pictures and now have a rough set of lines at 25 feet with a 10 foot beam, about 3 1/2 foot draft thingy....sides are a smooth arc so as to use 3/4 or 7/8th spanish cedar tongue and groove from the gun'l to the keel with a triple layer of marine ply for the very bottom of the boat, or a single layer of ply over tongue and groove.....but fir could be used throughout without very much plywood if you really wanted to be cheeeeep.......The idea being....what if I were doing this again on a shoestring. It seems to be good and comfortable for one and possible two if they are really good friends.......it's easy to draw this stuff out if'n ya dunno got nuthin better to do......;)

[Tristan]

Yrvind's site is great. Thanks for the reference.

[GregW]

Here's YMT's little 28 footer...looks good!

http://www.tantonyachts.com/IMG_0036%20(2).JPG

[Dave Lesser]

Some interesting boats on this site:

http://www.microcruising.com/

Click on the "Famous Small Boats" link on the left side of the page.

[Tanbark Spanker]

Always a fun topic. MacNaughton's little junk rig cruisers are great.

[JimD]

Benford's Happy was built by a local guy about 15 minutes away from us at Maple Bay.

http://www.benford.us/images/14-happy-bow-quarter-large.jpg

[Woxbox]

But is the boat to be small just to be small, or because there's a notion that small will be cheaper?

When I look at the used market, I see lots of boats under 30' pretty cheap, with no particular relationship between the size and the cost.
Given that, I'd be looking at boats around 26-30 feet. That would give you the displacement you need for a good supply of water and other gear, and it would move along much better than something under 20 feet would.

It's true that costs escalate rapidly as boats get bigger, but a 28 foot sloop, for example, can be set up and maintained on a pretty tight budget.

[John E Hardiman]

Some interesting boats on this site:

http://www.microcruising.com/

Click on the "Famous Small Boats" link on the left side of the page.

Check out the survival rates for the guys doing a crossing in under 12feet...not too good.

[paladin]

JimD...HA! My reworked Pelican is bigger'n your Tideway.........:D

[Bob (oh, THAT Bob)]

Here is how I think it plays out...

~33'+ : easy for 2 or a family with kids, done many times.

26-33' : ok for 1 or 2, have to watch passage length and loadout weights, commonly done.

22-26' : Spartan and loadout weight a concern. Possibly singlehanded for the long legs, weather and currents a big player. About minimum for effective and timely trans-Pacific or upwind route. Uncommon, but a fair number accomplished.

<22' : Heroic adventure. Singlehanded almost exclusively. Weather planning and downwind route a must. Starting to get into custom design territory. Newsworthy, but several accomplished.

<18' : Custom boat for a record stunt.


As usual John, thought and analysis are in evidence :).

As for me, my queeziness quotient is more of a factor than the seaworthiness or space for provisions. I don't think I would feel comfortable in anything smaller than an Aegis class cruiser. From what I have heard and my tolerance, I don't thing a 'can (destroyer, corvette to you 'Brits) would suffice for me :(. Unfortunately. I would love to have sufficient experience and fortitude, but I don't think so in this lifetime. I have careful respect for the deep.

[JimD]

JimD...HA! My reworked Pelican is bigger'n your Tideway.........:D

Yeah, but Chuck, isn't this the impractically small circumnavigator thread??? And a nother thing, Tideway 14 is really 14' 6". And 700# ballast otta count for something, shouldn't it? But Cathy (Mrs JimD) wants no part of it. So I got to build her a tug boat first...

[Wild Dingo]

Slight thread drift coming up!! ;)

Not so small at 26' (8M). but practical. And doing it.
http://www.kayitsiz.com

Good to see you again Yves... mate which one of your designs is she?

[willmarsh3]

A couple of my favorites would be the 18' Bruce Roberts Spray design "Pere Peinard" in which a couple crossed the Pacific.

http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/HTML/R19.htm

Also the Flicka 20 has sailed oceans.

http://www.flicka20.com/

I have considered the Bruce Roberts Spray as a possible boat to use to sail in the Dry Tortugas or the Bahamas in that it can be easily trailered to a launch point and sailed there and back over say a 2 week vacation. Also the Paradox mentioned in an earlier post. That could serve as a trailerable rough water boat for short trips or maybe as a dinghy for my larger boat.

But for more long term cruising I'd like a somewhat larger boat that I can stand up in.

[Tom Robb]

NASA Mercury space capsule from the 60's.
Small and fast, but a bit expensive.
If you're thinking of smallest and circumnavigating at the same time, you're in the relm of pointless stunt. Have your fun, but don't call for help if your stunt is about to kill you.

[MTRiverDrifter]

If you're thinking of smallest and circumnavigating at the same time, you're in the relm of pointless stunt. Have your fun, but don't call for help if your stunt is about to kill you.

Well Said,

I am fatigued with the "Outside Magazine" risk your neck and those that have to rescue you stunts. I have worked professionally in the outdoors for over twenty years. This has involved grizzly bear research, wilderness packing and work from fairly small boats in the Cook Inlet. Using appropriate, properly maintained gear is inherent to being competent.

I have met several, somewhat well known, expedition junkies who are not very competent. They are real proud of being the first to do something inane and insignificant, however. I have never circumnavigated, but doing so in a really small boat seems like a long and drawn out trip over Niagara Falls in cooperage.

Thus, my answer would be about 40 feet.

[MarkC]

PVanderwaart said;


I can't speak for him, but my guess is that John Welsford would rather you to with Sundowner than Swaggie:
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...er/updates.htm (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sundowner/updates.htm)


yeah, that is interesting! And this straight after the first Swaggie was built. I dont know why he would favour one over the other.

A big update section regarding the Sundowner, but I dont see the plans for sale.

To me, the Swaggie seems in the micro-cruiser theme (18' long, enclosed cockpit, simple easy to handle single lug sail, full-keel, wide and deep but in a short length).

The Sundowner seems to be a progression on from Grahame Shannon (bruce Roberts) Thomb Thumb? 6.5 m (24') Full-keel, wide, sturdy.

The Sundowner's sails dont seem easier to tend as Swaggie and is there so much more sail area?. Sundowner is a bit longer - but what am I missing?

Long-distance cruising in both would be an adventure.

[Lewisboats]

I don't mean to be too critical but just looking at Swaggie it seems that the balance would be off. Just an eyeball estimate but the CLR seems way too aft for the CE of the sail...it looks like it would have a heck of a lee helm. I do hope I am wrong but that's it looks like.

Steve

[JimD]

I don't mean to be too critical but just looking at Swaggie it seems that the balance would be off. Just an eyeball estimate but the CLR seems way too aft for the CE of the sail...it looks like it would have a heck of a lee helm. I do hope I am wrong but that's it looks like.

Steve

I think you are going to get what you hope for as I'm quite sure you are wrong. John knows how to design a boat.

About Swaggie's size, John said somewhere, I am paraphrasing, that Sundowner is the boat he would have designed in the first place except that when Swaggie was commissioned the fellow paying the piper was adamant that she be no more than 18 feet, or there abouts.

[JimD]

As for Sundowner, not exactly minimal:

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sundowner/images/06-12-15b.jpg

[jp4sail]

Check this one out....

www.aroundinten.com

...... JPaes

[JimD]

Check this one out....

www.aroundinten.com (http://www.aroundinten.com)

...... JPaes

Ok, this is crazy enough. Some interesting boat designs:

http://www.aroundinten.com/matt/3mVoyager-KeelRoundBilge.jpg

[jp4sail]

Another design, I guess this is from John Welsford

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3475/10pgimlilr6.jpg

and this from Eric Sponberg

http://www.captainhumphreys.com/images/boat.gif

[alkorn]

http://www.dngoodchild.com/5399.jpgA small cruiser that has always intrigued me is Chester Nedwidek's 26 foot ketch Porgy. This picture doesn't show it, but she has a traditional deep, straight-keeled underbody. Lots of storage space. You can get plans from DN Goodchild - I don't know if they are large-scale or a reprint of the MotorBoating Ideal Series article. You could build from the article plans if necessary.

[Woxbox]

Right. The word "practical" is in this thread's title. And I would say that somewhere in the range of 25-30 feet is practical. Below that, the practicality of the enterprise becomes questionable. Some claim the H28 is the design that has more cruising miles to its credit than any other. I don't know if that's true, but that too is another exmple of a boat that is small but capable and has the displacement and volume necessary to carry a skipper and his stores long distances. Why torture yourself in a too-small boat for the job?

[htom]

I'm sorry, the Around in Ten folk are looking for the smallest possible, not the smallest practical. I'm surprized that there isn't a cat or tri in the contest.

[JimD]

I'm sorry, the Around in Ten folk are looking for the smallest possible, not the smallest practical. I'm surprized that there isn't a cat or tri in the contest.

I imagine there would be capsize issues with a multihull that small. You couldn't make one wide enough.

[MTRiverDrifter]

The earth is about 25,000 miles around and continents get in the way of making a straight line circum-navigation. There are quite a few 25-30 footers that have the displacement to safely tackle the deep. These, and especially, the sub 20 footers are not going to be near the "rule of thumb" 1.34 multiplier for hull speed. At 2.5 to 3.5 knots average this will be really long trip on boats that are going to feel smaller and smaller as the voyage progresses.

[JimD]

Remember Clandestino? Maybe not quite circumnavigation material but an interesting small cruiser none the less:

http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/ansicht_1.jpg

http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/stabilitaet.jpg

http://www.emubo.com/e/boote/kueste/innen_trans.jpg

http://www.emubo.com/emubo_boat.html

[zenda]

I'm planning a solo circumnavigation via the southern capes, and I chose Atkin's "Inga" at 28'3. She's a buxom lass who can carry the groceries.

[zenda]

[QUOTE=JimD;1572324]Remember Clandestino? Maybe not quite circumnavigation material but an interesting small cruiser none the less:]

This reminds me of some of Dudley Dix' designs.

[Woxbox]

I'm surprized that there isn't a cat or tri in the contest.

It's not just the problem of capsizing. A multihull at 10 feet would not have carrying capacity or the volume to live in. If it were a trimaran, and the main hull was wide and deep enough to live in --- well then you'd have a mono like those designed with appendages added that would pretty much prevent self-righting.
Multis, if they're any good at all, displace lots less for their length than monohulls do.
Which raises the age-old question, why does the person who dreamed up this 10-foot race believe that length is the true measure of the size of a boat? It just plain isn't. Displacement is the real measure of size in boats.

[JimD]

... why does the person who dreamed up this 10-foot race believe that length is the true measure of the size of a boat? .

I doubt if he does believe that. But for the Guiness Book of Records ten feet long is a much easier number for most people to get their heads around and for the purposes of racing, overall length places an absolute limit on waterline length and hull speed.

[Woxbox]

overall length places an absolute limit on waterline length and hull speed.


And I'm thinking that some designs are already trying to cheat the rule a bit by stretching the rudder out to create some unmeasured length. How about a bulb on the bow? What if you entered a sub with a 10-long conning tower? It's gonna get silly as those claims that the America's Cup is now the "people's race."

[JimD]

A contest based on displacement could be interesting. Presumably one would see designs with the longest possible waterline for their weight. You might end up with boats that looked a lot like Tilikum, the native duggout canoe from Vancouver Island that crossed the Pacific, Indian, and Atlantic (twice) over a hundred years ago.