Hail call to Thorne

[Rick-Mi]

I'm not a sailor (yet) but love the idea of a combination row/sail boat. From what I've seen, the Chamberlain design sits high on the list in this department. My question is; how easy is it to capsize your boat under sail in open water on potentially heavy seas?

My sailing experience consists of many hours in a Sunfish as a teen where a capsized boat was a good way to cool off in the hot summer. However, thirty years later in a much bigger boat on the great lakes in potentially ice cold water and this type of unintentional event could easily get one's name in the wrong section of the newspaper!

How tender are Chamberlains and what is the potential to capsize? How about righting them from the water if they did?

[Thorne]

My Blushes!

There are a lot of much more experienced folks on this list, but I can answer some questions about the CDS.

The Chamberlain dory skiff was designed for launching through the surf (hence the steeply-raked transom that won't take an outboard), and mine is surprisingly stable -- the heavy fir over oak construction helps. It rows well, but not as well as the longer 16-18' boats that I row with at Northern CA TSCA events -- longer waterline = better speed.

Check out this page for some photos of Ed Foster's boats (and others) on a TSCA row/sail on Tomales Bay last year -=- the longer mostly-double-enders row faster and sail better than my little boat.

http://www.luckhardt.com/Tomales/Tomales10-06.html

For an open boat to use under sail and oar in normal small boat conditions (reasonably protected waters) the 13.5' CDS is fine. A ply boat will weigh less and so be a bit less stable unless ballasted -- but easier to row. I prefer the rounded-hull dory designs to the Banks dory's straight sides and infamous tenderness without 300lbs of dead fish as ballast...

I haven't capsized it yet, as my spars tend to break before that happens (two masts and one bowsprit), but with no additional floatation it wouldn't be fun to bail out and reboard. I've had the rail down a few times but my crew tends to mutiny if I push my luck. Nothing magical about the design, much like any other open round-hulled boat of similar size.


As for the "open water on potentially heavy seas" part, I'd strongly consider a larger partially-decked boat with a small outboard -- perhaps Welsford's Navigator?
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/navigator/nav.jpg

If you look at the boats that the old guys like Blackburn and Johnson rowed and sailed across the Atlantic, you will see that they were usually partially decked and often very large for a one-man pulling boat.

http://www.capeannhistoricalmuseum.org/fisheries/blackburn.htm
http://www.sandybay.org/images/oldphotos/saildory.jpg

http://www.gregcookland.com/johnson.html
http://www.microcruising.com/Graphics/CNTNNIAL1r.jpg


Again, for more extreme conditions and open water I'd want something larger with a small outboard kicker.

[Rick-Mi]

Thank you for the information and well thought out response Thorne. Yes, you certainly have earned the right to be considered an expert (of course, there is plenty of super knowledgeable company when it comes to experts on this board). I've read about the painstaking renovation of your Chamberlain and found the thread you started about combination row/sail boats (who's time has come) to be very interesting. Lots of good input from a variety of contributors. Of course all boats are compromises of sorts, but it seems quite possible to enjoy a boat that rows and sails well in open water.

I've already got an 18' banks dory with a motor well that does an outstanding job of being seaworthy in combination with an extremely loooooooooong range if required or desired. It rows acceptably well for it's intended purpose (fishing and recreational rowing) with the added important benefit of a motor when needed.

I'm considering a Chamberlain because of the round sided characteristics and the apparent ability to be quite capable rowing and/or sailing. A motor is asking too much and is out of the question in this application. My main concern is accidentally dumping it over under sail in ice cold water on one of the Great Lakes.

You also bring up a good point about the benefits of length. The Chamberlain I'm considering is 14 feet and it might be a tad short for the task called for which is open water rowing with occasional sailing thrown in. The boat I'm looking at has wonderfully designed rigging, tilt up rudder and lead weighted center board which makes the sailing aspect appealing. I'm going to strongly consider the length of this particular boat as a potential negative. Thanks for the input.

If anyone else cares to chime in it would be appreciated.

[Thorne]

Well, if you've already got an 18' Banks dory, the 13.5' CDS might work well, particularly if already rigged for sail.

If you find it too tender under sail, you've got a number of traditional solutions to pick from -- reefpoints/smaller sails, ballast (I used 1/4" lead sheets wrapped in Ye Olde Ducte Tape), temp canvas foredeck, etc.

I've sailed my dory skiff in pretty windy conditions, but like most open boats, you begin to take on water as spray or over the gunwales after a certain point. Rowing keeps the boat a lot dryer, but large swells or wakes also put a bit of water in the boat.

With the stern sheets made available for seating while sailing due to the yoke tiller (a push-pull also works), the boat holds three adults and balances well. Here's a shot of SWIMBO and meself sailing in a stiff breeze off Point Richmond in SF Bay. As you can see there isn't a lot of freeboard, but that makes rowing in the wind easier --

http://www.luckhardt.com/sbs/sbs-Images/8.jpg