Looking for Coastal Cruiser Sailboat Plan

[High Altitude]

Any suggestions on plans that will meet my needs would be much appreciated.

Light to Medium Displacement.
Shallow draft ability - around 18" or less.
Self draining cockpit.
Around 16'-18/19' - I need to be able to build it in my garage.
Basic sitting headroom accommodations for two people to sleep/sit/porta potti storage etc..
Stores for two people for up to two weeks.
Trailerable.
Easier construction with plywood bulkheads/frames, plywood or lapstrake over stringers, stitch & glue is also OK.

Must be capable of self righting from at least a full 90deg knock down.

Must be capable of handling some weather and crossing the gulf stream to the Bahamas.

Any suggestions/comments?

I was looking at Sam Devlin's Winter Wren II but the cockpit does not have a self bailing footwell and I am not all that excited about a dagger board.

http://www.devlinboat.com/winterwrenll.gif

[Paul Pless]

Maybe a small skipjack? Here's Reuel Parker's Terapin:
http://www.parker-marine.com/skimmerphotobig.jpg

available from 16' to 42'
more here: http://www.parker-marine.com/index.htm

Probably a large number of multihulls that will fit the bill.

[JimD]

Paul Fisher has quite a collection of pocket cruiser designs in that size range and he's very open to modifications if you see something close to what you want but not quite. Here's a roomy 16er:

16' GREY SWAN
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16d1.gifhttp://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p1.jpg The Grey Swan is a traditional gaff cutter of multi chine hull shape with a length over deck (LOD) of only 16’ allowing much of her construction to be completed in a small work space. The original plans show her built using pre shaped ply bulkheads and for and aft girders fitted together along with her bottom hull panel into a rigid prefabricated structure. Stringers are then added to this and the remainder of the hull panels applied oversize and trimmed later. The sketch shows the original design with it’s centreboard but during the intervening years since she was first drawn up we have been asked for several modifications. Consequently the plans now show details for bilge keel and long central ballast keel variations, an alternative catboat rig and details and panel shapes for pure stitch and epoxy construction. Although only 16’ in length, she has room for 2 berths inside her cabin and a large cockpit which can also take 2 sleeping under a boom tent. LOD 16’; Beam 7’; Draft 1.15’/4.3’; Approx. wht. 1200 lbs; Ballast 300 lbs. Details are now available for a strip plank version. Plans also include details/mould shapes for strip planking the hull. http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p2.jpghttp://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p3.jpg

Many more here: http://www.selway-fisher.com/PocketC.htm

[JimD]

Jacques Mertens is very candid about the seagoing ability of his small designs: http://bateau.com/studyplans/AD16_study.htm

http://bateau.com/images/boatpics/AD16_back_350.jpg

http://bateau.com/images/boatpics/AD14_inside.GIF

[JimD]

More work to build but very nice looking 19er from Dudley Dix: http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm

http://www.dixdesign.com/inspiration4.jpg

[Woxbox]

http://members.shaw.ca/brad.clarke/boats/futurepics/lm.jpgWith those specifications, I would build one of these, a Bolger long micro. Two people in a boat under 20' for two weeks is pushing things a bit. Many have done it, but you'll find there's just enough space and capacity for the gear, the stores, and the people, too.

[High Altitude]

I think Jacques has some excellent designs when it comes to performance and sea going ability. If you read his forums it is obvious that performance/safety/ability is very important to him and he has the blue water experience to back it up. Right now I am looking for something more traditional looking instead of modern. If I wanted something modern his VG20 (which can be built at 18' with out the skirt) is an outstanding coastal cruiser that has been proven.

Jacques Mertens is very candid about the seagoing ability of his small designs: http://bateau.com/studyplans/AD16_study.htm

http://bateau.com/images/boatpics/AD16_back_350.jpg

http://bateau.com/images/boatpics/AD14_inside.GIF

[High Altitude]

Thanks Jim,

Lots to look at.



Paul Fisher has quite a collection of pocket cruiser designs in that size range and he's very open to modifications if you see something close to what you want but not quite. Here's a roomy 16er:

16' GREY SWAN
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16d1.gifhttp://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p1.jpg The Grey Swan is a traditional gaff cutter of multi chine hull shape with a length over deck (LOD) of only 16’ allowing much of her construction to be completed in a small work space. The original plans show her built using pre shaped ply bulkheads and for and aft girders fitted together along with her bottom hull panel into a rigid prefabricated structure. Stringers are then added to this and the remainder of the hull panels applied oversize and trimmed later. The sketch shows the original design with it’s centreboard but during the intervening years since she was first drawn up we have been asked for several modifications. Consequently the plans now show details for bilge keel and long central ballast keel variations, an alternative catboat rig and details and panel shapes for pure stitch and epoxy construction. Although only 16’ in length, she has room for 2 berths inside her cabin and a large cockpit which can also take 2 sleeping under a boom tent. LOD 16’; Beam 7’; Draft 1.15’/4.3’; Approx. wht. 1200 lbs; Ballast 300 lbs. Details are now available for a strip plank version. Plans also include details/mould shapes for strip planking the hull. http://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p2.jpghttp://www.selway-fisher.com/Gswan16p3.jpg

Many more here: http://www.selway-fisher.com/PocketC.htm

[brian.cunningham]

2nd Parker's boats

Also look into a Weekender
http://www.stevproj.com/PocketYachts.html
http://www.stevproj.com/WeekndrKauai3.JPEG

How about a multihull?
http://www.wharram.com/
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/image-cache/Tiki-range/Tiki-21/Tiki%2021%20Greece-2_disp800.jpg

[Woxbox]

I do beleive that multihull is 21' long and too big for the garage. I studied that design when I was looking for a coastal cruiser of my own. I had also purchased the plans for Bolger's Martha Jane. I settled on doing a rehab on a 25' Searunner tri. The Wharram Tiki 21, which is what I beleive is shown there, I decided doesn't have adequate space belowdecks. The Tiki 26' does, but that's way beyond the size limitation given. I almost built the Martha Jane (24') but then the tri came along.

To be comfortable in this kind of sailing, you really want a boat that pretty much takes care of itself. That's one reason I'd go with the long Micro. It's got ballast low down, a long fixed keel that's still not too deep, and a sail plan that can be trimmed for balance. Plus, the square sections make it more livable below than most boats this size.

[Steve Paskey]

Also look into a Weekender
http://www.stevproj.com/PocketYachts.html

Whatever else one might say about the Weekender, it doesn't meet the requirements here. It is not capable of self-righting from a 90-degree knockdown, and I wouldn't even think of taking one on a coastal cruise with a potential for rough weather, much less set out for the Bahamas.

[David G]

Might be too long, but take a peek at John Welsford's "Penguin"

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash" -- Winston Churchill

[Tom Lathrop]

Here is a new one which completely matches your wish list including the stability requirement.
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bel.htm

Sails really well too.

[classicboats turkiye]

May be BENIGUET

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2351/29op9.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29op9.jpg) http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4024/16xr2.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16xr2.jpg) http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4232/20cn6.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20cn6.jpg) http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8650/25qw9.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25qw9.jpg)

open boat is also available.

more pictures : http://www.classicboats-turkiye.com/bealbum_en.php

[High Altitude]

Might be too long, but take a peek at John Welsford's "Penguin"

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash" -- Winston Churchill

I wish I had the space because I really like this design. His Sweet Pea is also very nice but the only ballast is the center board. I am sure you could put in more ballast in the bilge but then that would take away from the amount of weight you could carry. I have heard that John is designing a couple boats (scout and barefoot) that are in between the penguin and sweet pea but it looks like it could be a long time before those plans ever become available. His designs are great, I like how the boats are built, great support etc... but he doesn't have a design that works for me which is a bummer.

[High Altitude]

Here is a new one which completely matches your wish list including the stability requirement.
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/bel.htm

Sails really well too.

I like the design, the cabin space is more then enough but on the web page it says that it only has a positive righting moment to 80 deg. Most serious cruisers can right well past 90 to around 110-135deg. The web page says there is a variable ballast option so maybe that figure can be improved on. I will email the designer and see what he says.

Now I know that very few people ever experience a full knockdown in their entire sailing life but since I am looking at small boats I would really feel more comfortable with something that can recover from a serious knock down well out in the gulf stream should the weather kick up and change etc....

We will see what graham says, it's a nice sailboat.

[High Altitude]

This is the first time I have ever seen this design. Thank you for posting.

May be BENIGUET

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2351/29op9.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29op9.jpg) http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4024/16xr2.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16xr2.jpg) http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/4232/20cn6.th.jpg (http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20cn6.jpg) http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8650/25qw9.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25qw9.jpg)

open boat is also available.

more pictures : http://www.classicboats-turkiye.com/bealbum_en.php

[dredbob]

Check out Karl Stambaugh's "Mist", I think it hits every one of your points.


Chesapeake Marine Designs - Mist (http://www.cmdboats.com/mist.htm?cart_id=91b905bb588f8c249a3bc04f69ba0247)

[Lewisboats]

http://www.microcruising.com/
I don't know if there are plans for this but it looks nifty and has been proven all along the eastern seaboard

[Steve Paskey]

A forumite known as "paladin" (aka Chuck) posted the following in another thread ... The "pelican" to which he refers is a San Francisco Pelican, a 12 foot boat that looks sorta like a sailing sampan. I've been meaning to write Chuck and ask more about this.

I dunno......depends on whatcha have in mind. A few years ago I gove my son a Pelican that I played with when I was working in Milpitas....and it's literally falling apart. He wanted something that was a bit bigger but could use the same sails and such/spars, similar rigging.....I read about a couple of guys that built a stretched Pelican and sailed it to Hawaii........so.......I redrew the basic lines of the Pelican giving it about 3 1/2 more inches of beam, a couple of inches to the depth, gave it a "V" bottom with a flat making it a multichine boat, and giving it about 160 more pounds of displacement, then I made the topsides curved so as to use strip planking to increase the bouancy..........and a few other things.....so far it looks like it would be a really neat coastal cruiser at about 16'8" and would be substantially more capable of crossing to Hawaii.....the ballasted board (135 pounds) helped quite a bit......all up dead weight for a trailer is about 580 pounds.

[paladin]

Mornin' Steve......Just checked in.......The "Buzzard" is now 18 feet 4 inches on deck and beam is 8'2".....Draft, board up is 10 inches, draft board down is 4'6".....mains'l looks about 138 sq. feetz with jib about 60 feetz.....standing lug main, all rope standing rigging, working on small hyfield levers so one person han raise/lower the spars/sails in 10-15 minutes....no provisions for engine unless one desires a small 2-3 hp outboard.....kickup rudder......can be built with sheet plywood.....or if ya wanna get real cheeeep, just rip a bunch of 1 x 4 stock in 2" wide strips and edge glue with epoxy....the only place I would demand plywood is in the centerboard and rudder......I have rough drawings for everything and have started the full sized frame drawings.
I made the cockpit just big enough for two and self bailing, room aft for liferaft or inflatebal.......two anchor with 100 feet of 1/2 inch line and 20 feet of 1/4 inch chain...room for two singles or a modified double, room for two to sit in cabin with a single burner and built in sink......only electrics are the required running lights with LED's replacing bulbs and a single battery and two small solar chargers....I had envisioned a "tiny Tiger generator for recharging or the use of a towed generator........

[willmarsh3]

I was thinking about the Devlin Winter Wren. There is a small cockpit option for this design - that is self draining IIRC. I don't like dagger boards much for the fact that if one hits something the board breaks or the boat stops suddenly. I like centerboards more because they simply pivot up.

For rough water cruising where knockdowns are a possibility I'd much prefer a fixed, ballasted keel. It won't go anywhere when the boat is flat or upside down. And since it is deeper it presents a longer lever arm to help right the boat.

I think that Sam Devlin might be talked into commissioning a Winter Wren design variant with a centerboard, IMHO.

I like that boat to the point that I'm seriously tempted to build one.

[High Altitude]

I like the winter wren also.

Here is the only building webpage I could find on it.

http://www.cox-internet.com/dgporter/

I have emailed some with Sam about the cockpit and here is his reply.

"
We didn't ever design a true self bailing cockpit for the WinterWren design,
there really isn't room for a 9" above the waterline cockpit sole and still
have seating for the sailors. What we did design was a flush deck area with
a relatively flush hatch cut into the forward section of the deck area and
if you slid the hatch aft you could dangle your legs into the void, i.e.
approximating how one would sit around a normal self bailing footwell or
cockpit well, but in rough weather you hold your legs out in front of you
and with the hatch slid forward have a secure seating area... Either boat
could be built that way, but I only would suggest the bluewater cockpit if
you were truly contemplating an offshore cruise with her.... And if that
were the case I would suggest a longer boat anyway, one with room for a
self-bailing footwell... Regards Sam Devlin"

Basically he designed a small foot well that you can close in rough water and then you will be sitting on a flush aft deck.



I was thinking about the Devlin Winter Wren. There is a small cockpit option for this design - that is self draining IIRC. I don't like dagger boards much for the fact that if one hits something the board breaks or the boat stops suddenly. I like centerboards more because they simply pivot up.

For rough water cruising where knockdowns are a possibility I'd much prefer a fixed, ballasted keel. It won't go anywhere when the boat is flat or upside down. And since it is deeper it presents a longer lever arm to help right the boat.

I think that Sam Devlin might be talked into commissioning a Winter Wren design variant with a centerboard, IMHO.

I like that boat to the point that I'm seriously tempted to build one.

[High Altitude]

What do you guys think about this design?

I know the draft is too deep for what I want but I was just wondering what others thought
about the design.

http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/silver_gull_19.htm

http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/Silver_Gull_19.gif

[JimD]

I think silver gull 19 might turn out to be very tender. I would be interested in seeing a section view that showed the amount of flare. The sail is only 95 sq ft iirc. There's dinghys that carry more sail. So I wonder why that is?

[merlinron]

mertens's vagabond 18 is just about perfect for your request. quite a looker, too!

[High Altitude]

I like the design, the cabin space is more then enough but on the web page it says that it only has a positive righting moment to 80 deg. Most serious cruisers can right well past 90 to around 110-135deg. The web page says there is a variable ballast option so maybe that figure can be improved on. I will email the designer and see what he says.

Now I know that very few people ever experience a full knockdown in their entire sailing life but since I am looking at small boats I would really feel more comfortable with something that can recover from a serious knock down well out in the gulf stream should the weather kick up and change etc....

We will see what graham says, it's a nice sailboat.

Over on the BandByachtdesigns forum at http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2 there is a thread on the subject.

From Graham Brynes the designer of the Belhaven.

"I would be glad to sail a Belhaven over to the Bahamas. Naturally I would carefully pick my weather, and make sure the boat was well found and well stowed with all the appropriate safety gear - this would not be the time to take 6 people and all their gear and supplies for a month! Two people and modest normal gear and supplies would be reasonable. "

[High Altitude]

mertens's vagabond 18 is just about perfect for your request. quite a looker, too!

I personally would build the VG20 to get the larger cabin but I do like the looks of the VG18 better. I only need to fit two people and the smaller cockpit of the VG20 vs VG18 is enough. The VG20 can be built with out the skirt and it will be 18'. If I decide to build something more modern this would most likely be the boat. Although another modern design I saw, pilgrim 590, and it looks good.

http://www.boatdesign.net/nyd/P590/

Or this one

http://www.siz.org.pl/sztraeng/sztrengl.html

Thanks merlinron for sending me the information.


Lots to think about, thanks everyone.

Can anyone pick just one boat to build? :D

[High Altitude]

I think silver gull 19 might turn out to be very tender. I would be interested in seeing a section view that showed the amount of flare. The sail is only 95 sq ft iirc. There's dinghys that carry more sail. So I wonder why that is?


Hopefully some finished boats happen in the near future and we can get a report/pics etc.....

If the plans weren't so expensive, I would of bought them just to make a model.

[donald branscom]

You say you want 18 inches draft.
You say you don't like a daggar board.
You want self righting to 90 degrees.

Won't happen .

[pippo]

Well, Bruce Kirby's NIS18 has a centerboard (off center, actually), very shallow draft and is self righting...

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/nis18.html

[High Altitude]

You say you want 18 inches draft.
You say you don't like a daggar board.
You want self righting to 90 degrees.

Won't happen .

Sure it will.

Lots of designs meet that criteria. That is 18" or less draft with the center board in the UP position.

The question isn't will we find it but which one to pick that is available. :)

[paladin]

I would seriously question the self righting. If you are knocked down, with the sails in the water and all lines are still intact, there will be enough drag when the sails fill with water to offset any righting moment that you have. Add this to assume that the centerboard is down when the roll occurs and if it is not locked into position it may retract or partially retract back into the case now raising the center of gravity and eliminating most of your righting moment.
One trick that I learned from the Pelican association is to fill the gunn'ls with foam on one side of the boat only and a plywood bulkhead on the other acting as a bouancy tank...this is fitted with a plug that can be opened to flood the chamber.
The boat has enough built in bouancy that it won't sink. To right the boat you open the plug, flooding the chamber and restoring the boat upright in the water, and then use a bucket to bail it out. One can actually sit in the boat bailing this way, and the boat will still sail half filled with water.......this just happens to be a design that takes some noodnick some really serious effort to capsize to start with...and when I did the redesign for my son, I took all this into consideration, plus the fact that my granddaughters might be sailing the boat without dad...

[JimD]

There's always John Atkin's Wild Onion. 18' x 7', vee bottom centerboarder, 15" draft, 300#s inside ballast. No mention of her righting ability, though. I bet with a pie shaped steel centerboard (I realize the Atkin purists will say don't mess with the board but I would anyway) she'd come up from at least 90: http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/WildOnion.html

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-1.gif

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-2.gif
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-3.gif

[Helle]

I think, the GG complies with all your requirements.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pb6f9b65937e4237995bf315b1a80a43a/e9f101ce.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pc1dc0dedf14fff6d17a2c1af9b8db122/e98e6c08.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p482ca44645fff04344d6997c4eb314ed/e98e6bd5.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pc3a516987e0b1efc84e3f411eddf7109/ee93fc3a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pfcb70a76dff16afa181b453242fbc6ab/ee93fc39.jpg

There are some more pictures of the building process:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115447792

Regards
Helmuth

[High Altitude]

When NA calculate the righting moment and it is past 90 degrees I do not know how they take in to account the force of the mast/sail having to go through the water. As long as you have the righting moment at least you have a fighting chance to right the boat. I would think unsheeting the main would do it. Filling a hollow mast with foam would help also.

Interesting topic.




I would seriously question the self righting. If you are knocked down, with the sails in the water and all lines are still intact, there will be enough drag when the sails fill with water to offset any righting moment that you have. Add this to assume that the centerboard is down when the roll occurs and if it is not locked into position it may retract or partially retract back into the case now raising the center of gravity and eliminating most of your righting moment.
One trick that I learned from the Pelican association is to fill the gunn'ls with foam on one side of the boat only and a plywood bulkhead on the other acting as a bouancy tank...this is fitted with a plug that can be opened to flood the chamber.
The boat has enough built in bouancy that it won't sink. To right the boat you open the plug, flooding the chamber and restoring the boat upright in the water, and then use a bucket to bail it out. One can actually sit in the boat bailing this way, and the boat will still sail half filled with water.......this just happens to be a design that takes some noodnick some really serious effort to capsize to start with...and when I did the redesign for my son, I took all this into consideration, plus the fact that my granddaughters might be sailing the boat without dad...

[Lewisboats]

If the mast were sealed...there is no need for the extra weight of the foam. Foam is simply trapped air surrounded by plastic. If the mast is sealed against water intrusion...there is no need for all that extra plastic.

[paladin]

or.....remember the old Aqua Cats....cheap beach cats used by rental companies....they had a 1 foot or thereabouts foam ball mountaed at the top of the mast to prevent the cat from completely going over.....you could tie a 1 gallon milk jug up there for the same effect.....:D

[JimD]

or.....remember the old Aqua Cats....cheap beach cats used by rental companies....they had a 1 foot or thereabouts foam ball mountaed at the top of the mast to prevent the cat from completely going over.....you could tie a 1 gallon milk jug up there for the same effect.....:D

But don't forget its important to drink the milk first.

[paladin]

yup...but it weighs almost the same as seawater, so if it's in you and in the boat you may need a boat drain.......:D

[Jay Greer]

Most likely longer than what you want but a great skinny water boat is the Herreshoff Ketch "Medow Lark". The design could be shortened but it would not perform as well.
Jay

[zenda]

Wee Seal is 18'6, but what's six inches in the scheme of things?

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Wee+Seal

[seanz]

Greetings High Altitude
Nobody has suggested this yet.
Why not start with an extension to the existing garage,might not be too expensive and increases your choice of boats.:)
In the scheme of things even small boats can take a while to build and a not insignificant amount of money.
So why not get a larger build space,then you can have a Penguin

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/penguinau1a.jpg











Pic from http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

[High Altitude]

Do Atkins designs use traditional lumber frames and require lofting?

There's always John Atkin's Wild Onion. 18' x 7', vee bottom centerboarder, 15" draft, 300#s inside ballast. No mention of her righting ability, though. I bet with a pie shaped steel centerboard (I realize the Atkin purists will say don't mess with the board but I would anyway) she'd come up from at least 90: http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/WildOnion.html

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-1.gif

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-2.gif
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/images/WildOnion-3.gif

[High Altitude]

I look at Iain Oughtred's designs all the time. He has designed some of the absolute best looking sailboats IMHO. Not only do I like the looks but I agree with his design philosophy.

" She sails, handles and balances well in all sorts of conditions, and with the shallow draught and short gunter mast, she will have less of the violent motion and vulnerability of a deep keel boat in rough water"

Eun na Mara is my favorite. But at this time in my life I don't have the patience to give the design justice and build her right. Although, I could see myself once retired taking many years to build one.

How could anyone not like this.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/eunmara4.jpg



http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/eunmara1.jpg

Wee Seal is 18'6, but what's six inches in the scheme of things?

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Wee+Seal

[High Altitude]

It gets cold/snow where I live and my garage is fully insulated. With a heater I can build during the cold months. A temporary extension wouldn't work out for me. If the land adjacent to my house ever goes up forsale I am going to jump on it and build a LARGE workshop.

Greetings High Altitude
Nobody has suggested this yet.
Why not start with an extension to the existing garage,might not be too expensive and increases your choice of boats.:)
In the scheme of things even small boats can take a while to build and a not insignificant amount of money.
So why not get a larger build space,then you can have a Penguin

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/penguinau1a.jpg











Pic from http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

[High Altitude]

Is this a scow like a SF pelican?

I look at Devlins lichen all the time.

How well do scows sail?

http://www.devlinboat.com/lichen2.jpg

Mornin' Steve......Just checked in.......The "Buzzard" is now 18 feet 4 inches on deck and beam is 8'2".....Draft, board up is 10 inches, draft board down is 4'6".....mains'l looks about 138 sq. feetz with jib about 60 feetz.....standing lug main, all rope standing rigging, working on small hyfield levers so one person han raise/lower the spars/sails in 10-15 minutes....no provisions for engine unless one desires a small 2-3 hp outboard.....kickup rudder......can be built with sheet plywood.....or if ya wanna get real cheeeep, just rip a bunch of 1 x 4 stock in 2" wide strips and edge glue with epoxy....the only place I would demand plywood is in the centerboard and rudder......I have rough drawings for everything and have started the full sized frame drawings.
I made the cockpit just big enough for two and self bailing, room aft for liferaft or inflatebal.......two anchor with 100 feet of 1/2 inch line and 20 feet of 1/4 inch chain...room for two singles or a modified double, room for two to sit in cabin with a single burner and built in sink......only electrics are the required running lights with LED's replacing bulbs and a single battery and two small solar chargers....I had envisioned a "tiny Tiger generator for recharging or the use of a towed generator........

[paladin]

Yes...it's a combination of a Banks dory flare to the topsides with a sampan bow......and with a simple standing lug rig makes for an exceedingly simple and seaworthy boat....a couple of things are "improvements to the "scow" or Dory design..and to quote Eric Hiscock on boat hulls "One is apt to judge the stability of a yacht by her midship sections, but all her sections will have a bearing on her stability, and of two yachts the same size with similar midship sections, the one that is fuller in the ENDS, carrying her beam further fore and aft and having in consequence more chine waterline length, will be the stiffer boat"....

[zenda]

I look at Iain Oughtred's designs all the time. He has designed some of the absolute best looking sailboats IMHO. Not only do I like the looks but I agree with his design philosophy.

" She sails, handles and balances well in all sorts of conditions, and with the shallow draught and short gunter mast, she will have less of the violent motion and vulnerability of a deep keel boat in rough water"

Eun na Mara is my favorite. But at this time in my life I don't have the patience to give the design justice and build her right. Although, I could see myself once retired taking many years to build one.

How could anyone not like this.



A couple of years ago, before I got ambitious, I had decided to build Grey Seal. Now, she's too small for what I want to do. However, Wee Seal, with glued lapstrake, is just over 18' and would probably go together pretty quickly.

Three more weeks, and I'm heading home to start my Atkin's "Inga". I can't wait!

[Doug Canada]

I'm still hooked on "Cape Cutter 19"
http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm

Doug


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[John Turpin]

I like the Cape Cutter also, but have steered away from it because of that huge centerboard trunk in the cabin. You could deal with it, but it would certainly make for some tight quarters--especially when forced inside for extended time.

[JimD]

Review of Cape Cutter 19: http://www.capecutter19.com/reviews.htm


Down below
Below decks the Cape Cutter 19, is surprisingly spacious and simplicity is the essence of the layout. The forepeak is taken up with a 6ft 3in (1.92m) long V-berth under which is a removable Thereford Portapotty. This item seems well sealed so nasty smells shouldn’t be much of a problem, but with no bulkhead and no privacy it’s probably only ever going to be used if you’re caught short. On the port side, aft of the forepeak is a cupboard and sink with a tap that pumps water from a 10 litre flexi-container stowed under the forward bunk. To staboard is a unit which can take a camping-style cooker or a small nav-station. Amid-ships the centre-plate casing robs any floor space between the two side bunks, which are long enough to accommodate someone six-foot-three tall (1.9m). These double as comfortable seats, but the centreplate box is crying out to have table fitted to it.

[Axel]

I would second "Beniguet" sailboat for her classic looks and for the detailed information that you can get in Francois Vivier's web page <www.vivierboats.com> You may like to compare her with the somewhat bigger "Meaban" sailboat (6,82m).

By the way, francois Vivier's web page is one of the most complete, offering literally, hundreds of fotographs of his designs.

[JimD]

Chuck, how you doing back there in Maryland?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I would seriously question the self righting. If you are knocked down, with the sails in the water and all lines are still intact, there will be enough drag when the sails fill with water to offset any righting moment that you have. Add this to assume that the centerboard is down when the roll occurs and if it is not locked into position it may retract or partially retract back into the case now raising the center of gravity and eliminating most of your righting moment.
One trick that I learned from the Pelican association is to fill the gunn'ls with foam on one side of the boat only and a plywood bulkhead on the other acting as a bouancy tank...this is fitted with a plug that can be opened to flood the chamber.
The boat has enough built in bouancy that it won't sink. To right the boat you open the plug, flooding the chamber and restoring the boat upright in the water, and then use a bucket to bail it out. One can actually sit in the boat bailing this way, and the boat will still sail half filled with water.......this just happens to be a design that takes some noodnick some really serious effort to capsize to start with...and when I did the redesign for my son, I took all this into consideration, plus the fact that my granddaughters might be sailing the boat without dad...

Jacques Mertens is a naval architect with extensive blue water sailing experience. I think you know that because I have seen you screen name on his forums.
He, also, has many decades of design experience and I cannot imagine he would make claims on his plan offerings that cannot be demonstrated should the need arise. In his case talk isn't cheap. He could have his brains sued out if a disguntled customer can show he was stretching the truth and it caused personal harm.
I think it should be stated you don't have to worry about any legal challenges to your opinions.

[paladin]

Cayahoga Charlie Tuna.....If you are going to take exception to something that I have said....don't take it out of context....make the entire quote known and then your disparaging remark so that others may see what you are remarking against...not just a part of the quote...use the entire sentence. My mommy always said if ya cannot say something nice STFU....