George Holmes canoe yawls

[gkl]

I am looking for a back issue of The Boatman: Issue number 23, 1995, second part of an article on the boat designs of George Holmes. I am also looking for a back issue of Classic Boat: January 1991 issue number 31. The start of a series of articles on building George Holmes' 13 foot canoe yawl Ethel. Photo copies of the articles would really help.

I build display boats and I would like to build one of the 13 foot Ethel.

[Hesp]

gkl, I should have those, I'll dig them out tomorrow.

What's a display boat?

John

[gkl]

Hi John,

Thanks for taking a look for the articles. I build scale models of lapstrake workboats from the 1800s. I usually build at two inches to the foot. I have not figured out how to post photographs yet.
Gary

[Boatmik]

Howdy

There is also a body plan and sailplan of Ethel in John Leather's "Sail and Oar".

We built one a few years ago - the only problem in practice that the geometry of the mainsail didn't work - it jammed really badly because of the short luff and long head and that the halyard ended up too far back along the yard to get the boat to balance - which meant that with gusts the boat powered up rather than depowering.

But a snazzy little boat - a real light wind wonder - all that sail and very little wetted surface.

Michael Storer

[gkl]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the response. I ordered John Leather's book and should have it in a few days. Is there a tabel of offsets for Ethel in the book? Did you use John Leather's sail diagrams from the Classic Boat magazine series of articles or did you use the original sail diagrams?

Did you build it lapstrake or strip plank? I am looking at building it lapstrake.

Gary Larkins

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I am looking for a back issue of The Boatman: Issue number 23, 1995, second part of an article on the boat designs of George Holmes. ... Photo copies of the articles would really help.

I build display boats and I would like to build one of the 13 foot Ethel.

I've got it and could scan it if that would help.
PM me if you want.

[gkl]

Thanks guys for the emailed, "The Boatman," George Holmes article. All I need now is the article from Classic Boat magazine 1991 January Issue #31. It has the table of offsets.

Gary

[gkl]

Double thanks to the guys that sent the pages. With the tabel of offsets I can loft the lines for George Holmes 13 foot canoe yawl Ethel.

Gary

[Hesp]

I hope gkl doesn't mind but I was so impressed by the model he's building that I thought I'd (try and) post an image here.

No luck, it just says "Exceeds your quota by 8.2 KB." which is odd because I've never loaded an image onto the forum before. I made the image 19kB.

John

[Bruce Taylor]

Cute boat. Dixon Kemp has some nice things to say about her in his Manual of Yacht and Boat Sailing:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p36e3cc5247dc95d0787c5a6d0cff28f9/e81b79de.jpg

[Boatmik]

The mast needs to be moved maybe up to a foot further forward but without moving the sail further forward. This is to get the halyard position on the yard further forward so it doesn't go back behind the halfway point. If it does the sail will power up in gusts rather than wanting to ease off.

I would also suggest lengthening the luff of the mainsail a bit too - even though it means a slightly longer mast and changing the angle of the head. With that very short luff it can jam as tension between the clew and throat prevent the yard peak from dropping when the halyard is eased - you ease and nothing happens! It's sortof hard to explain but it was a big problem with the one we built.

Overlooking these flaws and the stronger wind handling problems (they were only caused by the sail geometry above - nothing wrong with that hull) it was a great boat to sail - a wonder at keeping up a high average speed particularly in river conditions - it would keep up with some much more performance oriented craft. Sure they would steam away in the gusts, but wait another 3 or 4 minutes and Ethel would be up there again biting at their heels - it just doesn't slow down in lulls.

MIK

[gkl]

Thanks to the guys that supplied the table of offsets and other information, I now have the George Holmes designed 13 foot canoe yawl, Ethel, completed. If I did the posting correctly this web site should take you to the photos.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2088571600

The hull is planked with red cedar below the cherry shear strake. The deck is cherry and red cedar. The floor boards are Monterey pine. Keel, stem, and sternpost are Honduran mahogay. The steam bent ribs are probably African Sapelle, The display stand is white oak. The centerboard and rudder rotate.

The tiller was an interesting project of steam bending four thin cherry strips around a mold then glueing them together.

I can post additional photographs of the build process if any one is interested. The boat is built at two inches to the foot. I lofted it per the table of offsets at both two and three inches to the foot. This fall I will start a build at three inches to the foot and perhaps next year start building the mold frames at full size.

The boat will be on display at the wooden boat festival in Port Townsend, Washington in September.

[Bruce Taylor]

Beautiful! Congrats, and thanks for the link.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4955e13c942f2a9977c36a3542306603/e81b4e18.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p918c0492a47ede8ce03218544348fc89/e81b4da2.jpg

I can post additional photographs of the build process if any one is interested. T

I would be.

[gkl]

It was an interesting build. I was expecting problems around molds 11 and 12 but the red cedar planking, about 1/16 th inch thick steamed on well. A lot of the detail work is hidden by the decking and floor boards.

[boatbear]

Beautiful work. Do you build full-size boats?
Charlie

[gkl]

Hi Charlie,

Back in 1998/99 I spent most of a year going to the Northwest School of Wooden Boat Building when it was located in Port Townsend, Washington, now located in Port Hadlock, a few miles down the bay. I got to work on several full size boats. It was a great learning experiance.

I build display boats, sea chests, tool chests, and sea captains ditty boxes, and I have a website but this project is not a promotion of the site.

After building about a dozen different scale model display boats I think I have setteled on Ethel as a full size project. I hope to get started next year.

[boatbear]

Good-oh. Building a full-size boat involves exactly the same number of pieces, but they are, well, bigger. It has got to be easier. I am astonished by the quality of your work and look forward to your full sized project.
Charlie

[gkl]

Just about the same number of parts as a full size boat. The hardest part of the build is finding or making clamps that will hold some of the parts together while the glue dries. Lots of rubber bands, push pins, clothes pins, small plastic clamps, and paper clamps, and two five pound dumb bells!

[gkl]

I have added another half dozen photographs of the build process to the photo album.

Gary

[gkl]

The mast needs to be moved maybe up to a foot further forward but without moving the sail further forward. This is to get the halyard position on the yard further forward so it doesn't go back behind the halfway point. If it does the sail will power up in gusts rather than wanting to ease off.

I would also suggest lengthening the luff of the mainsail a bit too - even though it means a slightly longer mast and changing the angle of the head. With that very short luff it can jam as tension between the clew and throat prevent the yard peak from dropping when the halyard is eased - you ease and nothing happens! It's sortof hard to explain but it was a big problem with the one we built.

Overlooking these flaws and the stronger wind handling problems (they were only caused by the sail geometry above - nothing wrong with that hull) it was a great boat to sail - a wonder at keeping up a high average speed particularly in river conditions - it would keep up with some much more performance oriented craft. Sure they would steam away in the gusts, but wait another 3 or 4 minutes and Ethel would be up there again biting at their heels - it just doesn't slow down in lulls.

MIK

Would you use the sail plan that the late John Leather drew up for the Classic Boat magazine series back in 1991?

[gkl]

Beautiful! Congrats, and thanks for the link.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4955e13c942f2a9977c36a3542306603/e81b4e18.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p918c0492a47ede8ce03218544348fc89/e81b4da2.jpg



I would be.

See additional photographs that I posted to the album.

[gkl]

Cute boat. Dixon Kemp has some nice things to say about her in his Manual of Yacht and Boat Sailing:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p36e3cc5247dc95d0787c5a6d0cff28f9/e81b79de.jpg

Did Dixon Kemp mention anything about the construction of the deck? Was it canvas covered?

[Hesp]

Please could some kind soul point point us dunces (I know I'm not the first to struggle) at info on how to post images? Do I need to use Internet Explorer?

[Dick Wynne]

Please could some kind soul point point us dunces (I know I'm not the first to struggle) at info on how to post images? Do I need to use Internet Explorer?

John they need to be on the net somewhere already, typically on a photo site such as Flickr, where you can get a free account. Once you have the photo installed on a site (the details of which will vary with the site) you then right-click on the photo there, select 'Properties' and copy the address string, which could be quite long. Then, in the WB forum, when entering a post, you put the text insertion point where you want the picture to appear in your posting, click on the 'picture' symbol above the text box, and paste into the dialog the address you copied before. The picture should appear in your posting.

On some browsers, like Firefox, when you right-click on an image, you see an option 'Copy image location' or somesuch, you can do that instead of the 'Properties' step I mentioned above, which applies to Internet Explorer.

I expect this and more is explained already on the forum, but I couldn't find it.

You can test the WBF part of all this by grabbing a photo already on some other website, of course, eg one from your own site.

Edited to add: For the above to work, you need to be using the Enhanced message editing interface, which you can choose by going to your user profile, selecting Edit Options, and scrolling to the bottom.

[Bruce Taylor]

Did Dixon Kemp mention anything about the construction of the deck? Was it canvas covered?

Nothing about the deck. He gives basic info. on construction (willow!), dimensions, ballast weights. He mentions a canvas "well cover" (a spray skirt, evidently) and quotes Holmes on her versatility & performance.

[Boatmik]

Would you use the sail plan that the late John Leather drew up for the Classic Boat magazine series back in 1991?

We used the original drawing above and just scaled it up as well as we could.

We did check the lateral resistance of the hull vs the centre of effort of the sail and I seem to remember we had to tweak the mizzen area slightly. We did put a deeper swinging board in too and kept the tackle inside the case to reduce drag.

Sailed very well apart from the mast position problem which made it tricky to reef and tricky to sail in gusty winds.

So I would recommend the same sails but to move the mast forward so the halyard meets the yard forward of the centrepoint. You can see how much more yard is in front of the mast in this pic.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1299/1258783518_d747d72b96.jpg

You can zoom in on the image a bit closer.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/1258783518/

Looking at the pic I think the mast could be a little longer and/or the leach of the sail be a bit shorter to cock the boom up a little more.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

[gkl]

Hi Michael,

I enlarged the photograph, great looking boat. John Leather drew up a new set of sails for Ethel back in 1991 as part of the Classic Boat magazine article. He drew a standing lug main and mizzen with no battens. The leading edge of the main sail being much closer to the mast than the original. I have not found anyone who has tried his sail layout. It looks like it would solve the problems discussed. I would think that a sprit rigged sail would work well for the main.

I also noticed that centerboard does not have much depth at the trailing edge. It looks like you could add six or eight inches to the centerboard.

Gary

[Boatmik]

Howdy Gary,

I have a huge bias toward balance lug rigs. The standing lug gives you an equal sail shape upwind but as soon as you slack off the sheet the top twists away and you lose a lot of power for reaching and running.

Also the excess twist means the boat is more prone to rolling heavily to windward if the breeze gets up from behind.=

You could fit a conventional boom vang to a standing lug to improve the behaviour in both those conditions but it is an extra bit of gear you don't need with a balance lug - the standard downhaul does both vanging and tensioning jobs quite naturally. Also the vang would require the back of the mast be accesible as there is not much space between the boom and the deck.

Also any worthwhile vang will not work very well with a yoke gooseneck - the cheapest gooseneck for a standing lug (or any boom that terminates at the mast).

You can read more on the pages that follow from this one though the advice is largely applicable to standing lugs too
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/tradrigperformance.html.

Hope this helps.
Michael

[gkl]

Hi Michael,

After the Port Townsend wooden boat festival in early September, I have to build a couple of sea chests for customers, I will get started building the quarter scale molds for Ethel. I figure I can use the larger scale model to work out the location of the main mast and the geometry of the balanced lug main sail.

I will get a set of sails sewn for the model to see if it looks right and see how the rigging, what little there is, works. It would be nice to use the sail plan that was on the boat in 1888. I would like to have the full size boat built for show at the wooden boat festival, and my 65th birthday, two years from now. I have plenty of time to get the boat built.

I have yet to decide on the final hull length. George Holmes built the boat at 13 feet and 15 feet, with somewhat different bodylines. I am thinking 14 feet would be good with the bodylines of the 13 footer.

Gary