Regina Maris

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

Last weekend I rowed over the partially submerged remains of this tallship. Does anyone know of any plans to raise her and
fix her up, make her sail worthy again?

[Bob Cleek]

Yeah, they talk about it continually, but you have seen the progress made. There was an article in the NY Times a few months ago about it. The local town was talking about doing a restoration. Seems when a vessel goes the route of a floating restaurant, the next stop is the knackers. Actually, as I recall, other than some movie credits, the vessel isn't of much historical significance. If memory serves, she was a Baltic trader that somebody stuck a square rig on. BTW, we really have to exorcise the term "tall ship" from our vocabularies, okay? "Tall Ship" is a gimmicky adjective dreamed up by lubberly advertising flacks to promote sail training ship festivals and the like. Think about it... you know any "short ships?"

[Alan D. Hyde]

Bob, even though I know why they do it, I do agree with you.

The journalists reporting these things can't tell a ship from a barkentine from a schooner from a hermaphrodite brig. They're looking for a generic term.

I'd propose "classic sail," but perhaps someone else has a better idea. We've been through this before, a ways back, with no great results (that I remember, anyway).

Alan

[BrianCunningham]

Originally posted by Alan D. Hyde:
Bob, even though I know why they do it, I do agree with you.

The journalists reporting these things can't tell a ship from a barkentine from a schooner from a hermaphrodite brig. They're looking for a generic term.

I'd propose "classic sail," but perhaps someone else has a better idea. We've been through this before, a ways back, with no great results (that I remember, anyway).

Alan


Also if you used terms like "hermaphrodite brig" nowadays people might be wondering what your talking about http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/eek.gif

[Alan D. Hyde]

You think they might imagine a bisexual seagoing prison?

Alan

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

Mr. Cleek,
I whole heartedly agree with the term "tall ship".
I have sailed on several "comercial sail vessals" (which sounds too politically correct), and I feel there should be a real term for them.
but then again, same with "organic" foods (please, show me a food that is not organic in chemical composition)and so many other pop terms.

as far as Regina Maris being a baltic schooner changed into a barquentine, If that is the case, they overrigged her in a picture I have of her sporting squares all the way up to her moons'l and (!!!) skys'l,and
stuns'ls for the course, tops'l, and t'gants'l.
I get tired just looking at the ratlines going up that high!

dispite the ridiculous rig that is clearly asthetic only, it is a shame to lose another one. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus J. Van Gilder (edited 09-28-2001).]

[ken mcclure]

Great big old boat. http://www.contrabandent.com/pez1/cwm/cwm/nerd.gif

[Dave Fleming]

Realistically fellows, I think there comes a time when the effort to restore an old vessel is counterproductive.
Bye that I mean, the total effort, money, time ,material just becomes overwhelming.
There is just so much we can do to preserve what we as woodenboat lovers see as elements of our heritage. Beyond that it is as if we were, "pissing in the wind". folla?
Just look at the mess in San Francisco, Wapama sits on a barge. Realistically never to be on the water again. The C.A.Thayer is in such shape that it too is close to having the same fate, though I doubt if Crowley will be as generous to the present administration of the Museum as when dear Harry Dring was alive. We, woodenboat lovers are in the minority as I see it.
Hell, the Getty here in SoCal can put up a structure that the framing materials alone were enough to rehab the vessels named above.
The Japanese moved a bloody mountain to erect the MIHO Museum by I M PEI. And he calls it his greatest acheivement in musueum building above the addition he did to the Louvre.
Nah, we are in the minority, we romantics, we impractical dreamers of things that were and will not be again. Too bad, or so says I.

[BrianCunningham]

A while ago a saw a schooner that was "too far gone", and noone had the funds to restore. The ship was taken ashore. The deck was turned into outdoor portion of a restaurant, below decks was turned into a museum.

Not the ideal way to end it's life. But as least it was "preserved" for other to see.

[plimsol]

Let the Regina die a nautual death. The ports of the US are littered with failed maritime heritage projects. They are usually started by Romantics with good intentions, no business or project management skills,and an illusion about life at sea.
It is more economical to build a new vessel.

[TomRobb]

Wawona, a near hulk tied up next to the Center for Wooden Boats on Lake Union is a similar problem. Preservation is a nice idea but it costs money that might better go to other projects. I wrote a letter to WB magazine once recommending that she be towed out to sea and be given a Viking Funeral. They didn't print it of course. My wife frequently points out to me that ya can't save everything.
Star of India in San Diego is a better example of what ought to happen if you must keep her. Take her out and sail her. She must be used, and better yet make a living, or she'll die.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by TomRobb:
Wawona, a near hulk tied up next to the Center for Wooden Boats on Lake Union is a similar problem. Preservation is a nice idea but it costs money that might better go to other projects. I wrote a letter to WB magazine once recommending that she be towed out to sea and be given a Viking Funeral. They didn't print it of course.

I'm with you there. Some time ago, the estimate for WAWONA's restoration (see below) was $US 4.5m. Think of the kind of community boating/sailing program you could build for that kind of money -- how many people you could get involved/out on the water, compared to the relatively small number of people who would ever be involved in a ship like WAWONA.

WAWONA is the sister ship to WAPAMA. WAWONA makes WAPAMA look well-kept and Bristol.

When I first moved to Seattle in 1993, if I remember correctly, Northwest Seaport (who owns WAWONA) estimated the costs to "restore" her -- more like a complete rebuild -- at US $4.5m or so. I suspect it is quite a bit more than that now. Needless to say, they doesn't have $4.5m or, as near as I can tell, a plan for raising it or anything near it.

As a comparison, SALTS (Sail And Life Training Society), in Victoria BC, just commissioned ROBERTSON II, their new schooner. ROBERTSON II cost them (Canadian) $2.5m to build new. Cheaper to build new than to restore.

Further, NW Seaport is the owner of not just one, but three ships, all in need of lots of work -- WAWONA, the old light ship SWIFTSURE and ARTHUR FOSS, arguably the older tug in existence (1886). ARTHUR FOSS was the star of the film Tugboat Annie, served as a fleet tug (so I'm told) at the battle for Guam.

One large ship seems to be quite sufficient to sink most organisations http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif NW Seaport has three.

And they used to have four; the fourth was a large old wooden ferry -- quite a beatiful boat, IMHO. She was sold some years ago and these days is sitting in a mud berth somewhere up the Frasier River in BC.

[bob goeckel]

IMHO, you may not like the term "Tall Ship" but it gives the general public the best visual description, is simple and is NOT going away.

[Weathergage]

Wawona is the "sister" ship to the C.A. Thayer, a 3 masted lumber schooner at SF Maritime. The Wapama is a Steam Schooner- a motor vessel with two cargo masts rigged with 2 cargo booms each, moved via one steam winch per boom. Her engine is oil burning (bunker c ) triple expansion steam- no sails.

[johngsandusky]

I thought the house and rig were off Regina Maris for a shoreside display. And that her back was broken by the last effort to raise her. She was on life support for years before the final plunge. Let her rest.

[Jim Ledger]

A nice "graveyard museum" might be a cost effective way to deal with old ships beyond saving.

Something along the lines of the Wiscasset schooners.

Or the Arthur Kill circa 1930.

Tugs, barges, ferryboats, the occasional "tall ship", all run up onto the mudbanks and allowed to rot.

Comfortable benches along the shore for those who like to sit and look at such scenes.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL441/8755859/16199889/252032333.jpg

[Dave Fleming]

There was a cove in Brooklyn just north of the old 69th Street Staten Island Ferry Dock that was simlar to the Staten Island graveyard.
Had hulks of many of those WW I Emergency Wooden Steam Freighters, old lighterage barges, tugs etc..
We kids would adventure on and over and through those hulks whenever we could get by the old caretaker who lived aboard one of them.

When last back to that Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn, it was filled in and, was now part of Owls Head Park.

[Jim Ledger]

If you like old scenes of New York harbor here's a guy worth looking into.

http://www.noblemaritime.org/aboutjohn.htm