Interior settee construction questions

[Clyderigged]

I have a couple of interior construction questions I hope you all might help me with on my 30' Tahiti ketch. I am finding the 15” width on the settee is now about 14” due to the bunk board. I measured for 15” to the fir t&g and forgot that the bunk board was going to cut it down to 14”. So before, I rebuild it, I have 2 questions:

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1. What have people found to be about the ideal width for cabin settee for the average person - I know average is hard to define, but what have people coming aboard your boat commented on the width of your seats.

2. What is the minimum overhead clearance for a pilot berth above a settee?



Also any thoughts on foam for cushions -thickness, type, open or closed cell, etc??? I stopped by the foam store the other day and was overwhelmed by the multitude of choices.

[robtcw]

The material called "astronaut foam" comes in some good and not so good grades. It is available in three hardnesses. I used the 1 1/2 inch material and laminated the firm on bottom, medium in the middle and softer on top. It sits well, makes a comfortable back, is a good bed and seems to last. A shop that sells it will laminate and cut it with the proper cement.

[Dave Lesser]

I have found good discussions of ergonomics and comfortable accommodations in these 2 books:

"The Nature of Boats" (chapter 50) by Dave Gerr

"A Somewhat Irreverent Look at the Design of the Long Distance Cruiser" by Bill Rothrock

[Lew Barrett]

Some things I learned when building our settee, and a few items you didn't ask about but which I think you might consider. I can speak to the requirements of the settee, but not to the needs of a pilot berth, since building dual purpose furniture is by definition a compromise.
Ideally the settee would have the same dimensions and included angles as any comfortable couch, most importantly including the angle of incline for the back. A comfortable perch is not set at 90 degrees. You'll want the back to slope off a bit as it would for your most comfortable chair or sofa. The seat should reach far enough forward to fully support the thigh but allow the knee to bend straight down; a minimum of about 18 inches for most people. In respect to the two requirements....sitting and sleeping....they are at odds. Again, if comfort is a consideration, measure a chair or sofa that you like to determine what works best for you. It won't be different on your boat. Most boats have their seatbacks set in too upright a position.
As regards overhead clearance, if you can manage it, allow room for a standard sized person (say a 6 footer) to sit up and read in the berth. It's possible to crawl into a berth with a very minimum of headroom, say 18 or 20 inches, as was the standard seperation for British sailors a century or two ago. But that's not ideal. To be able to sit up and swing one's legs out of a berth makes a big difference in comfort and ease of entrance and egress.
For furniture, it's my belief that nothing beats individually tied coil springs, but I understand why boats frequently get fitted out with foam. I can't help you in selecting foam except to say that the foam matress tops I bought for our forward berths were dual density and feel very firm to the hand, but have held up beautifully, are nice to sleep on and were not cheap. I'd say go for the best, closed cell you can get and look into dual density construction. I can't comment on memory foam; don't know a thing about it. But the story on furniture dimensions is something you can trust.

[George Ray]

FOAM Cushions:


EZ-DRI reticulated foam outdoor cushioning materials...

EZ-Dri polyether-polyurethane foam outdoor cushions dry almost immediately after exposure to rain, salt spray, melting snow, morning dew, washing, or other forms of moisture and humidity. Large, open pores permit maximum water drainage and air circulation, allowing use quickly after being wet or even saturated. With EZ-Dri outdoor cushioning materials you can offer your customers the best of both worlds-long lasting wear and comfort combined with extremely fast drying properties.

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My fantasy is to make the cushions out of two layers. Half reticulated foam and half closed cell preferably a soft type like airex cushion foam or ensolite type stuff. The edges of the cushions would be of that open weave phifertex material with the top and bottom probably sunbrella. The point of the laminate is to make a comfortable quick drying cushion that is also a raft that would float and be fairly stable in extreme conditions (not blow away). The dual layers also give one a choice of what is most comfortable to lay on. Closed cell is warmer and open cell reticulated breathes well. If the single cushions can be symmetrical so they will be usable either side that's nice but often even when they are not symmetrical individually they are often symmetrical as a set so you could flip and exchange port/stb and you thereby change foam type and if you wish the cushion fabric to match conditions. As to the stable float that won't blow away, you have likely seen an air mattress tumble end over end when the wind catches it because it is so light. The reticulated foam would quickly become water logged and weigh so much that it would hug the surface of the water in extreme wind gusts. However, if you were using it to float around in the Caribbean it would just take a minute or so for 98% of the water to run out as you slowly pull it up on deck and rest of the water dries out very quickly. A couple of these tied together would make a little floating raft island that would be fun, and better than swimming if it came to using it as part of life raft.

I think of these things when I should be working, I suppose.


Reticualted Foam: www.crestfoam.com/ezdrinew.html
Airex soft cushion: www.bobsfoam.com/airex.html
Phifertex material: www.fabricsandvinyls.com/products/phifertex/index.htm

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[George Ray]

Interiors:
Cruising as a way of life (Tom Colvin)
>>Interior: Notes(engineering for human dimensions)

Seats width: 16" min // 18" max

Space between upper and lower berths: 19" min // 21-22" better

[donald branscom]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have a couple of interior construction questions I hope you all might help me with on my 30' Tahiti ketch. I am finding the 15” width on the settee is now about 14” due to the bunk board. I measured for 15” to the fir t&g and forgot that the bunk board was going to cut it down to 14”. So before, I rebuild it, I have 2 .......

14 inches will not work.
The seat from back to front has to be 18 inches with cushions.
You can get away with no cushion on the back, BUT the back should come straight up 6 inches and then slant back 14 degrees.

The seat heigth should be 15 inches above the cabin sole without a cushion and 18 inches WITH a cushion.

The table if any should be 12 inches above the seat cushions.
The edge of the table should be even with the front of the seat cushion.

the BEST BOOK about this is a book that 4 of the best boat designers in the world wrote, McCurdy and Rhodes,Sparkman & Stevens
It has a blue paper jacket (red white blue theme)and is hardbound.
The cover has a cruising yacht with cut away views.
Maybe one of the forum members know the tittle.

THOMAS Colvin also wrote in his book "Cruising as a way of life",
many practical down to earth things about interior layout that actually work.

[jimspaulding]

Smaller vessels often cannot aford to live up to the BEST rules, so some compromises may have to be made. I believe most size decisions depend on HOW you USE the boat... is it a party boat for weekends? a live aboard? A serious racer? Will you charter it? Mostly for your use? each will prompt different tradeoffs.

If the boat heels a lot, or the seats are used primarily for sitting, say at a table, and not lounging, they can be made more narrow and more upright. Rose's salon seats are 16 inches wide and the backs go up at an 80 degree angle. Even after weeks aboard, this is not a problem, since they are usually used with the table open, and we use the cockpit for lounging.

The space over a berth is tougher... I found the perfect sea berth to be 15 inches widea with a mere 15 inches of space over the hard mattress, since I can sleep through a hurricane with minimal bouncing and not get thrown out... even significant angles of heel and rolling have little effect... BUT some people would consider such a berth a form of torture, and the claustrophobic effect is significant at less than 18 inches.

We found the idea of mocking up the interior in the workshop quite worthwhile, then we crawled all over it, arguing about how WE would use it. We have not made a major change since we designed it that way, except we have been looking for a way to increase the size of the bar a little bit.

I suggest a mockup and consider the rules more as guidleines... fit it to your own needs.

Jim S.

[Clyderigged]

Thanks everyone for all the information and leads on some books that might help. I will certainly be indebted to all for these comments, when I am enjoying the new and improved interior of Torea.