Bleeding fasteners repair

[Friendship II]

I searched for this topic, to no avail. I have some bleeding fastners (rust) above the waterline. I've heard there is a process to drill out the plug, put on some rust stopper, etc. that will improve the appearance. Can someone please post the instructions?
Also, I have some spots where it looks like the wood plug or whatever covers the fastners is bulging out. Can I just sand it flush?
Thanks,
Jennie

[Paul Girouard]

This thread covers that ,

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=3750&highlight=rusting+bungs

Try using bung instead of plug in your search;)

[Lew Barrett]

Hi Ya Jennie! Welcome to the Forum. You're going to enjoy it here. Stay out of the Bilge.

To fix a bleeder:

Pull the bung or whatever is covering the fastener. Clean with a small wire brush. A good trick to clean the head of the fastener is to chuck up a short piece of stainless steel wire (the kind used in lifelines) in a drill and run that over the fastener's head. This trick was relayed to me by Andy Blair.

Douse the now cleaned fastener in osphoric acid. Put a dab of zinc chromate or Rustoleum primer over the fastener. A good dab of whatever paint you might have handy can also be used. Use a small artists brush so a new bung can be cleanly glued into raw wood. Re-plug.

Repeat as necessary!

Nice to have you aboard.

[Ian McColgin]

Goblin was over sixty and bled profusely despite KilZ and even despit my propensity to replace bleeders with locust trennels because there was just so much iron oxide migrating about in the wood. I eventually concocted "Goblin Green" from some old Kirby's cans, a quart of gloss dark green and three quarts of semi- or flat black. That did it.

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, but don't ever varnish what the owner can't see.

[Lew Barrett]

Zinc chromate, which is a metal primer, and green by the way, might be a good start. Then Goblin Green and you're in business! The idea, of course, is to seal the fastener from moisture and retard oxidation as much as possible.

[mariner2k]

I have an iron fastened hull (originally), By the end of every season the hull looked like a bucket of rust. I wooded the hull and did above the waterline with cpes, followed by a good primer and Kirby topside paint. Since then, I get an occasional escapee, but for the most part I'm rust free. The ones that show through I sand , seal and paint. Compared to the original issue, I couldn,t be happier. Going on eight years now.

[Jay Greer]

Others have given good info on cleaning the fastening. I have had a coating system that has been 100% successfull over many years. It is a commercial grade liquid galvanizing coating marketed under the name "Devcon Z" It is nearly pure zinc. A quart of the product weighs almost twelve pounds! I follow up by filling the hole with red micro balloons and epoxy. Stops bleeders big time!
Jay

[Friendship II]

Hello All and Lew,
I knew this must be a good group when I saw that Lew is a frequent flyer...
Thanks for all the input. A few more questions:
Where do I buy said products in the greater Seattle area?
Can I sand down flat the bungs which are pushing out a bit but not bleeding (yet)?
Any tips on glueing in the new bungs after fastner rust surgery?
By the way, I'm heading to Hawaii for the week on a last minute vacation deal. Any old boats there to oogle?
Jennie

[outofthenorm]

Can I sand down flat the bungs which are pushing out a bit but not bleeding (yet)?
Jennie

You can if it's not too thin from previous owners doing the same thing. The most likely cause of the bung bulging is rust in the fastener, so it's a matter of fix me now or fix me later. Sometimes later is better.:)

- Norm

[Lew Barrett]

Hello All and Lew,
I knew this must be a good group when I saw that Lew is a frequent flyer...
Thanks for all the input. A few more questions:
Where do I buy said products in the greater Seattle area?
Can I sand down flat the bungs which are pushing out a bit but not bleeding (yet)?
Any tips on glueing in the new bungs after fastner rust surgery?
By the way, I'm heading to Hawaii for the week on a last minute vacation deal. Any old boats there to oogle?
Jennie

Hey Jennie,

(Added) I see Norm answered this in fewer words!

You can sand the plugs down, but they'll just push out again. They push out because the oxidation/rust expands beneath the plug. Unless you remove the underlying cause, the plugs will just slowly rise up to annoy you. Why some push out, others bleed and some just keep on trucking remains a mystery (to me). After a few years, most of the old ones are treated and new ones come along to take their place.
Jay's advice (Devcon Z; new information for me) is probably well worth looking into, but if you want zink chromate primer, which is a lower octane version of Jay's heavy metal recommendation, you can get it at Fisheries Supply (where they usually have it in aerosol form). Osphoric Acid is also sold there, under various brand names; ask for it as "Ospho" and they'll know where to pint you. Beg a two or three inch piece of 1/4" or 3/8" stainless "Lifeline" wire off of them for chucking up in your drill.
Lastly, just how to glue in the bungs; any good marine glue will work; Weldwood is a frequent recommendation, but you can also use something as benign as varnish or as aggressive as epoxy. After they set up, just take the tops off with a sharp chisel. A good hand and a sharp tool will usually shear them off nice and cleanly, and a wipe or two with sandpaper will make them ready for a dap of primer. Knocking off the tops of newly "minted" bungs is one of those jobs I really like. It means you're closing in on getting the paint on and the boat splashed. In case he's reading this (unlikely) I learned most of this from Charlie Life years ago when I didn't know which end of the chisel to hit with the hammer. Now that I've got that figured out, all my chisels are ruined, and the hammers too.
All the guys that posted to this thread are veterans, so between us you've got a pretty good set of suggestions. It's easy and enjoyable killing bleeders, and the world will be safe again.....but just like Arnold....they'll be back. :(

[ron ll]

Not only does the above method (dig, ospho, seal, replug) work, it is very rewarding to see those foul orange spots held in check for a while.

I've added another trick; there will usually be (at least on my boat) 2 or 3 that have escaped the process and still bleed. I carry a small jar of topsides paint and a small artist brush as a touch up kit, and soon after I get the anchor down and the dinghy launched in a new anchorage, I dinghy around and touch them up. Won't last very long but usually lasts long enough to be stylin' in the new anchorage. :D

[Lew Barrett]

I clean the blood off with ospho (put some on a rag and rub) to accomplish the same thing. It works a charm.

[ron ll]

Doesn't the ospho stain the paint?

[Lew Barrett]

No, it doesn't. Wipe it on, wipe it off, flush it with a little water (even sea water works) and you're clean for the moment. Try it for yourself and see. It's a good rust reducer indeed.

[ron ll]

I'll certainly try it next time I'm at the boat, Lew. But I remember discoloring my painted caprail in an area where I was ospho-ing some rust from a cleat. The difference may be that my paint is water-based latex house paint rather than fancy-schmancy yacht enamel :D . But I'll test it on the topsides and report back.

[Lew Barrett]

I have the fancy schmancy stuff, and it works well with that (EasyPoxy). Let us know, Ron.

[Jay Greer]

Here is a source for Devcon Z, the only rust primer I have ever used that truly works.
http://snsvo3.seekandsource.com/apexindustrial/vopage3.html
We did repairs on an iron nailed Spitzgatter five years ago, using the product to seal over the raw metal, followed by a filling of the void with micro balloons. No rust has been seen on the white hull since.
Jay