building a strip kayak without staples

[bheys]

Several years ago I built a cedar strip kayak and used staples for the hull and used the "stapleless" technique for the deck. I must have been more patient back then.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid76/pab1879701fdd32b59d9cebe5f5e17686/fb462199.jpg

We're back in the shop putting a new kayak together for Sue. I decided to put the whole thing together without staples and without doing the cove and bead milling. Well the block plane beveling has been a decent alternative to the cove and bead. But doing the hull without staples has been a royal PITA. I gave up and am using staples for the 10 or so strips along the very bottom. I'm sure we would have been done with the hull weeks ago if we'd used staples. It is difficult to do more than 1 or 2 strips per day without staples. With staples I would guess that 6-8 strips per day would be reasonable. At any rate we've gone this far, so I guess the deck will be done without staples.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid165/pa1d65b33b4a5140539639d2f657c3bb2/f46fc5aa.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid165/p93813595ce10046877e08b72dc40d700/f46fc516.jpg

[paladin]

you can very easily do the planking in one weekend if you bead and cove the strips and change your clamp design....I am slow but did a Glen-L 11 foot sailing dink in 3 weekends after the frames were in place....

[JimD]

Bheys, the first one sure turned out admirably.

And Paladin, prey tell more about your clamping method. I am presently procrastinating on starting a strip kayak.

[paladin]

There wuz a feller that advertised in WB magazine (I don't have a copy handy) that sold a neet double clamp arrangement that one of the clamps latched on to the frame and the other put pressure on the strip......I purchased about 3 dozen of them to do my boat...guys in thailand love 'em......send me an e-mail or in the next couple of days i will find the info and copy it here...

[Doug Canada]

A stapleless stripper is the only way to fly.
I'm on #3.
For the little extra time it is worth it.

http://www.greenval.com/FAQnostaples.html

All the best,
Doug

[George Roberts]

I lay up a kayak hull in 2 days - no bead and cove and no staples. I do a deck in 1 day. Perhaps 8 hours of fairing and finish sanding.

Lots of 1' and smaller spring clamps, and 1"x3" C-clamps. Lots of green masking tape.

You should be able to lay 3 strips per side at a time. Your glue should cure in 2 hours.

I prefer a different bottom technique.

[Paulyboy]

I've been wondering the pros and cons of bead and cove vs. beveling with a block plane. What are your observations in a boat that size?

[DoyleH]

I also had good luck using the little brackets that hold mirrors to the wall. You put your strip in place, then screw the little bracket into the form with the "lip" over the cedar strip.
Depending on the strip, I would use a bracket every other form. I also used strapping tape, bunge cord and LOTS of clamps.

[FG]

I like the look of the staple marks.

[Dan Lindberg]

I'm on my 3rd stapleless canoe. I can put on 4 strips a night if there is little beveling or the strip doesn't need a lot of bending, otherwise 2 strips a night. On the strips with severe bending, 1 strip a night.

The 1st two took about 12-15 mts to finish.
Why are you in a hurry?

And George, good to see you're still "alive".
Wish you posted a bit more.

Dan

[George Roberts]

smile.gif

[Rod Tait]

All our boats are built without staples. There are many different approaches that work for different people. Some info is available on our web site regarding building without staples and other tid bits. Simply go the "How To" page and print the info out for yourself.

Difficulties arise depending on the shape of the boat, amount of flare in hull and width of beam. Shorter, wider boats tend to be harder to strip without staples. Lots of clamps, bungies, jigs and patience.
orcaboats (http://www.orcaboats.ca)

[Gerald]

Several months ago I explained how I had built strippers without staples. When I was building them I would place a female form about an inch above the male mold that you staple the strips to. I would then slip the strips between the male and female molds and hold them in place with small wooden wedges. Using this method you can lay up as many strips in a days time as you have time and wedges.
Gerald

[Doug Canada]

Paulyboy;
"I've been wondering the pros and cons of bead and cove vs. beveling with a block plane. What are your observations in a boat that size?"

Cove & Bead;
Once you have your router (table) set it takes an hour or two too machine the strips.
Each strip is uniformed.
The cove acts a nice through to set the glue for the bead.

Hand Planed & Beveled;
Each individual strip is worked by hand to match the next strip.
I believe it to be a lot more work.
I beleive, in my case, it would also mean a lot more scrap.

Check out the Bear Mountain Boat Books;
http://www.bearmountainboats.com/

Strip makeing sites;

http://www.greenval.com/FAQstrips.html

http://michneboat.com./Making%20Strips.htm

http://michneboat.com./Of%20Strips%20and%20Stripping.htm

All the best,
Doug

[Todd Bradshaw]

There seems to be a perception that if one doesn't use bead and cove strips then he or she has to spend endless hours with a block plane beveling the edges of strip-to strip joints to get them to fit snugly together - which is blatently false and probably spread mostly by people who have never built a boat with straight-edge strips. Depending on which stripping pattern you choose to use, there may certainly be a few spots where beveling is needed, but 95% of the strips on the boat can go on right as they came off of the saw. If you're building without staples, you do need a good clamping system (just as you should have when using B&C strips) but this implication that unless you bevel them all or build with B&C strips your canoe will have gaps between the joints just isn't true. Even when building a curvy boat, like a Morris Canoe, you can strip-up the entire hull with straight-edge strips and only spend about an hour or two beveling as there are only a couple spots which really need it.

I built this stripper in 1974 (long before anybody started using bead and cove strips). It has two strips in the deck that were beveled and two more in the hull.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/p294ea5156d61c7b8346ffa6e05ef7433/fd681e07.jpg

This one only has two beveled strips in the whole boat and their not even full length. They run about 1/3 of the hull length on each end of full length strips.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/p3e7fe0b88ac5b8dfa544a5df6a40704d/fd682b5b.jpg

It would seem to me that beveling when using straight edge strips should actually be avoided as much as is humanly possible. If you bevel a joint between two flat pieces and then fair the hull to a smooth curve, inside and out over the joint, you're liable to wind-up with a thin spot in the core at that location. I'd much rather use whatever it takes, clamp-wise, to get a good, solid,well-aligned, non-beveled butt joint to maintain core thickness once the fairing is done.

[Wild Dingo]

Ive actually seen photos of a canoe being built without clamps at all... fishing line instead wrapped around the strips as they go on pulled tight to the mould...

Ages ago I started building a stip canoe {with one of our heavy woods duuuh} and was told of this method by email with accompanying pics... tried it with a few strips and the line held the strips in place nicely no pinholes from staples no nail holes... once the glue sets up simply slice the line and pull it out... easy as!

Works for canoes if your building your kayak in two halves {top and bottom} then it should work... perhaps worth a try?

[Dan Lindberg]

Todd is right, it takes little effort or time to bevel a strip.

In my experience his 90% might be a bit steep, in my case, most strips got a slight cut with the plane, but those on the side and the bottom got very little. Only the strips in the chine get a lot of bevel and even then don't take long.

I only use full length strips, and to help hold/control the strip, made a "U" shaped holder 16ft long out of 1x stock. On the uprights I cut a groove that the strip fit in, which held the strip while beveling it. No problem.

Dan

[George Roberts]

I go further than Todd does ---

I don't bevel my strips at all. I do color my glue with dyes so it goes well with the strip color.

The gap at the shear where the deck and hull are joined, get thick epoxy.

[John-NY]

I think i've seen Bob Smalser allude to this in the past but what if I don't want to use glass cloth or epoxy on my finished boat??
Surely strip canoes and kayaks were made before epoxy was around.
Do I need to adjust strip thicknesses? Add frames?
What glue do I use?
How much of a weight increase should I expect?
Is there a good book out there?

Thanks, if theres a harder way, i'll find it...
John

[Todd Bradshaw]

Yes, there were (are) several varieties, both lapstrake and smooth-skinned. Most used lots of small (usually half-roundish) ribs inside, which are quite a bit smaller and narrower than those of a normal wood/canvas canoe. Planking on smooth-skinned models was usually cut with a tiny lap to keep plank-to-plank seams tight (something not done or needed on wood/canvas or stripper constructions). Lots and lots of tiny tacks were used to connect the planks together. I've even seen a couple of old canoes where the "planking" went crosswise, instead of fore and aft.

Books : "Rushton and His Times In American Canoeing" from the Adirondack Museum's Press shows some of these constructions (don't trust the offsets on the plans without lofting the boat as they tend to have some accuracy problems).

"The Canoe - A Living Tradition" - from the Canadian Canoe Museum and Firefly Press - big expensive book, but great pics and worth getting a look at.

"The Adirondack Guideboat" Durant (International Marine). This one is about building Guideboats, not canoes, but does a good job of explaining their smooth-skin planking methods, which would be helpful.

"Building the Maine Guide Canoe" Jerry Stelmok - This one is about regular wood/canvas construction, but you'll find much that is useful as well as great documentation of a traditional canoe building method which doesn't use fiberglass, but which is somewhat easier to start with than Peterboro-style, skinless cedar strip building.

[Paulyboy]

Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
Ages ago I started building a stip canoe {with one of our heavy woods duuuh} and was told of this method by email with accompanying pics... If you could get e mail "ages ago" you're either really young or time must really creep where you are!