Strip Planking a Hull

[Meerkat]

Just how much of a PITA is this, especially compared to other techniques? 20' LOD x 7' beam x 2'9" draft, so we're not talking a canoe here.

[Jack Heinlen]

It's a fair amount of gooping, especially if you build it with glass sheathing. On the other hand, have a look at the article in WB #130 on Alton Wallace and his Westpointer skiffs. He built with pine, and didn't bead and cove his strips, and didn't glue them. But his boats were intended to be in the water most of the year.

What sort of boat? I think many have a misconception that there isn't any shaping of plank with a strip built boat, just bang the strips together. Not so. Depending on the shape there is a lot of tapering involved in certain sections of the hull. Have you read some of the books on stripping canoes?

I'm convinced the only truly pleasant way to build a wooden boat is solid lumber plank on frame, either lap or carvel, or like Alton did. But some people don't mind all the googe.

[davef]

Meerkat,

Are you talking about very think strips like a strip canoe? I planked with much wider strips of 1/8" plywood - three plys. Our boats are roughly the same size. I didn't think it was too hard. Spiling took a bit of getting used to but eventually I got fairly good.

I learned a lot - if you have any questions feel free to ask?

Dave

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/p7aea1f3023640b9dca58a2e758062f8a/fb0c0849.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/p093cdce006f271975d04c9e94a9cfb8d/fb0c0837.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p88d35328547a884309d48bc9a105c064/fbe4200b.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/pfad136385107f9bdb235438527ba4be8/fb0c0834.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid80/p6211f2cd572e28094cd607190844990c/fb0c082b.jpg.orig.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/pde573a7cd12d6337111ee09c2230c84c/fb0da962.jpg.orig.jpg

[NormMessinger]

That is a beautiful job on your hull, Dave. Dandy tool too.

Meer, strip planking is s simple process. It may not be fast since one is limited as to the number of strips one can put on a day by the cure rate of the glue. Prairie Islander is stripped with 5/8"x1-1/2" western redcedar.

It was not nearly as beautiful as Dave's but after it's painted, who can tell.

McNulty built the Farne Islander with 1/2" strips with two layers of 1/8" veneer over it. No glass, I think. That might combine the best of both processes.

[RonW]

Check this site out with very good info on strip planking.http://www.sredmond.com/strip_plank.htm
There is also several pages in howard chappels boatbuilding on this.There is no relationship between strip planking a canoe and strip planking a boat.Strip planking goes back to the early 1900's and didn't become favorable due to the fact that it used too many nails and there where costly then. Times have changed and nails are cheap.A boat of 20ft. should use 3/4 x 3/4 strips, you can readily buy clear 1x6 yellow pine and even have the lumber yard rip it.You do not need to coat it with epoxy and glass, or should you, so it can breath and move with out trapping moisture inwards.There is even controversy as to whether or not the strips should be, or need to be glued.You can build a real nice and tough boat with this method, and very reasonably cost by eliminating all the goo.Oil based marine paint is what a wood boat deserves.Research this site, there where some nice posts around 2000, about 40 ft. strip built boats in excellent condition 40 and 50 years later and due to the fact no one globbed epoxy all over them.

[NormMessinger]

"There is no relationship between strip planking a canoe and strip planking a boat."

Bigger boat, bigger strips. Otherwise? I must have really screwed up following Iain Oughtred's plans and scantilings. 1/8" wooden pegs to aline strips and draw them together but, no nails. Oh well....

But as to glassing: Seems like paint would prevent "breathing" as well. How have the earliest Gougeon Br's boats held up, being unable to "breath" and all?

[Gerald]

Dave ..... great job!
I think there might be another way to look at strip building. If you lay that 20 ft. boat up with, let's say 1/4" X 1" strips instead of 3/4" X 3/4" and use more glass on both sides you can achieve the same strength. What you are really doing is using the strips as a form for the glass. I would think the strips for the boat you have described could be laid up, using no nails, staples, etc. in about 60 hours.
I would hate to be the person that decides which of the above boats would be wooden and which one would be plastic???
Gerald Niffenegger

[Meerkat]

This is what I'm thinking about (again, yet, still, some more):
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/images/golant.jpg
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/images/GG3s.jpg

You can't quite make it out in the drawing, but the designer, Roger Dongray, specifies a first strip that's on a "great circle" over the hull to eliminate tapering and cheaters.

On the other hand, there's a quite similar boat using "lap on stringers": the Dudley Dix Cape Cutter 19; and I suspect it's easier to build - but I have the Golant Gaffer plans already, and I don't want a c/b boat!
http://www.dixdesign.com/inspiration4.jpg
http://www.dixdesign.com/nv19accom.gif
http://www.dixdesign.com/cc19plysec.gif

DaveF - what design is that you have pics of? smile.gif

[ 10-25-2003, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[pjwalsh]

I think strip planking is a very nice way to build a strong hull quickly - even with the epoxy. Definitely a low PITA number.

I would recommend using the bead and cove approach because it helps maintain plank to plank alignment between mold stations, results in less gaps to fill, and if the cove is pointed up helps with spreading the glue. Oh yeah no spiling needed. I like to finger joint the butts on projects with thicker planking, not for strength but again just to maintain strip alignment between mold stations. I also am of the opinion that glass sheathing both inside and out is a good idea.

Assuming a material like western red cedar, the strips have good longitudinal strength but in the transverse direction need some help. Could do it with frames, but an unbroken sheathing of glass and epoxy with a good proportion of the fiber in the transverse direction does the job well with a minimum of intrusion into the interior space of the hull.

On the subject of breathing - my opinion is that in glass sheathed strip planking the point is to keep the wood dry. Yes, I realize epoxy resin is permeable by water (I do research on physical properties of polymers for a living nowadays) but the typical hull layup is gonna have a pretty thick layer of epoxy with bundles of glass fibers in the way, and will be covered with epoxy primers and polyurethane coatings that are very effective barriers to moisture. If you do the work carefully the water is going to move slowly and the wood will stay relatively dry.

One of the downsides of this method is that the strips do expand and contract a bit and you can sometimes see the plank lines through the sheathing. This can be minimized by using VG stock, and by painting in a light color to keep the temperature of the laminate material down.

I built a 42' hull this way in 1995. I just got a chance to go over the boat again last spring and it has held up very well - the hull is just fine. The awlgrip needs to be done over. The only major problem encountered was infiltration of water into the wooden core of the rudder where the stainless steel rudder post entered it. This was because i had tried to seal the glas to the post by making a rigid baering of carbon black filled epoxy, and of course it cracked. The solution was to create a "caulking seam" around the post and fill it with a more resilient material (3M 5200). Interesting to note that the boat was recently sold after 7 years of east coast cruising between Maine and the Bahamas for a bit more than it cost to build in 95'.

[davef]

PJWalsh Writes..."Interesting to note that the boat was recently sold after 7 years of east coast cruising between Maine and the Bahamas for a bit more than it cost to build in 95'."

PJ, That is certainly something for you to be proud of! I would bet that's fairly unheard of on modern hand made wooden boats!

Meerkat, The boat I am building is of my own design.

I'm not sure I understand "Roger Dongray, specifies a first strip that's on a "great circle" over the hull to eliminate tapering and cheaters." I am assuming that he means to start stripping the hull on a buttock that runs more or less along a natural radius around mid-way down the hull and then planking both up (to the sheer) and down to the keel. Perhaps on some hulls this would prevent tapering but my experiene is that the strips will run out in an unpredicable and somewhat weird fashion as you approach the sheer line. You probably want to give some thought to the aesthetics if you don't plan on painting the hull. Ideally, the strips should run fairly horizontal at the shear which can be an interesting trick. I ran my "strips" on 45 degree angles and alternated between layers for strength. Then again, I knew I was going to paint.

My understanding is that the basic advantage of using very think strips is that you can conform to the hull while eliminating the need to hand fit or "spile" the strips as the hull form changes. With wider strips, as you plank, the wood will eventually gap away from the adjacent strip. Attempts to close the gap will cause the wider strip to buckle away from the hull. Unless your hull is close to a perfect sphere you will have to address this by tapering the wider strips. Very narrow strips are able to bend along both axis (around the hull and against the adjacent strip).

I have a friend who builds wooden canoes at a frightening rate (can crank through one in a month or so and has built about a dozen). Interestingly enough, he avoids "bead and cove" claiming it's a lot of unecessary router work. From what I understand, he uses a plane to hand taper the strips in the areas where the curve of the hull would cause gaps. He says that it literally take a few swipes of the plane and he can get the strip to fit the adjacent one perfectally in a fraction of the time. I've seen his work and it's beautiful, although he is a far better craftsman than I so I wouldn't be surprised if what's easy for him would be difficult for me.

One other consideration would be the cost of the material. I think most people who build canoes will buy a cedar plank and re-saw their own strips. There is a fair amount of loss due to the kerf on the re-saw but with a canoe the hull is small enough that the loss is not a big deal. On your hull, thats a lot of cedar strips (or whatever other material you were considering).

[Jamie Hascall]

Well I'll weigh in one more time on the side of unclad strip planking for large hulls. Victoria was strip planked with 1 1/4' square strips of Western Redcedar with UF 109 (urea formaldehyde)glue and edge nailed with galvanized nails. the only frames are at the bulkheads. She's fair and tight and very stout. Strips are spiled but not coved and are all oriented with rings running perpendicular to the hull, making it one huge edge glued VG board. Great form strength. At 34 years old, I still only pump about a gallon out of her every two weeks and I'd bet almost all of that's from the stuffing box.

I can't imagine that putting strips together over a set of forms takes more time than making frames and planking, although the skill level of the planker is the key in either one. I will say that Peter Donahoe's work building Victoria remains one of the most compelling pieces of craftsmanship I've ever run across. I don't think there are any quick and easy ways to make a fine craft so look for a method that truly makes sense to you and go for it.

Jamie

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p1f6b844dc3b4cac9dc5f84950a42f351/fb9128df.jpg.orig.jpg

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Some Frenchmen are building a strip-planked 4.5-meter (15') boat at

http://www.nautique-sevres.org/articles/ilur1/ilur1.shtml

Each strip took them 1.5 to 3 hours. They started stripping in June 2002 and finished in January 2003..

Scary.

[Aramas]

What you are really doing is using the strips as a form for the glass Actually, from a structural point of view, wood strip epoxy constuction gets all the longitudinal strength it needs from the wood strips. The glass is a substitute for frames. You can actually use transverse unidirectional glass if you want to save weight, but the extra thickness of random mat gives much needed abrasion resistance.

There are two reasons why I would choose strip epoxy over cold moulding every time.

1) Building the mould for a cold moulded boat is nearly as much work as making a strip planked hull, and most of it is thrown away.

2) A cold moulded hull has to be planked several times, and every plank has to be spiled.

Some Frenchmen are building a strip-planked 4.5-meter (15') boat
Each strip took them 1.5 to 3 hours. They started stripping in June 2002 and finished in January 2003..

Scary. Ah yes, but one Frenchman could finish the job in a couple of weeks :D

[ 10-26-2003, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Gerald]

A couple months ago we had a discussion about securing the strips to the forms without fasteners, while the hull is being laid up. There are some ideas here that you might find interesting:
http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=007869&p=
I think if I were to lay up the hull that Meer has described I would use 1/2" X 1" cove and bead and would probably shy away from western red cedar. With the number of wood choices we have here in Brazil I would probably opt for a stronger rot resistant, wood. Western Red is a good choice for canoes because it is light. The performance of the boat that Meer is showing probably would not be affected a great deal it the hull were a slight bit heavier.
My comments about using 1/4" strips was an attempt to step out of the box and say that the strips need not be used for strength. Personally I would opt for something thicker and use less glass. I'm cheap ....... the very best wood costs me around 1 US$ a BF and glass is expensive!
Gerald

[On Vacation]

Nice work Davef. Splatter screen up for a few of the posts, though!!! Couldn't contain myself on this one. This thread has so much bull in it. A strip plank canoe ain't no strip plank boat. Too different animals. Be careful Jamie and Norm, don't get to far away from the shore. ;) Yea, solid planked boats never leak, never rot, and is so easy to build for the average guy and easy to take care of every year. Just pop in the water next May and go. YEA RIGHT. Try that Norm, the next time. It will weather really nice on that trailer in the snow. :rolleyes: ROTFLOMAO Aramas, I checked out your reply on the other thread.

Aramas
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Member # 4492

posted 10-26-2003 07:02 AM
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Gerald linked to this thread and well, what are the male moulds for then?

By building on a female half mould all that's needed to hold the strip in place is a flat piece of metal with a slot in the long side to fit over the mould and bent so that driving it down the mould toward the plank will wedge it in place. Or make them from wood and drive wedges under it if you like. there are any number of simple ways of holding strips in when they're on the inside of a curve rather than the outside.

It also has the advantage of the work being more easily accessable, the moulds are taken directly from the lines, only half moulds are needed and they can be reversed for the other side, and the overrun of the planks can be cut off accurately later before joining the two halves.

[ 10-26-2003, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]
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From: NQ, AU | IP: Logged
Help me out here: I am willing to learn on this one.
Strip plank hulls are built everyday in female moulds????? Can you point me in the direction of this process being done and promoted in the majority of wooden boat projects, today? No work in handling a half hull of large proportions? Never twists in the transfer to bulkheads? Save a dime in labor for building a jig? Ever tried to fair a female mould? Wonder why they build a male plug to make a female mould, then. Damn new age building. While you are at it, maybe you should teel all of these plans sellers about it, too. :rolleyes:

edited to ask one more question, if you build two half female moulds, how is that less work than building one full jig pattern for each station? The learning never stops here.

[ 10-26-2003, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[L.W. Baxter]

Dear Oyster, what a pearl of a post!

But don't pick on my man Norm. Though I haven't built a "real" strip-planked hull, I can see with one eye that it really is no more trouble than planking a canoe, just on a larger scale. And strip planking on any scale has got to be a breeze compared to fiberglassing. Glassing a canoe hull, achieving a nice, clear, fair surface, is the most difficult aspect of boatbuilding I have yet encountered, more difficult than lofting, building frames, or spiling and beveling lapstrake planking. I suppose this is very subjective, different for each person who does it... just based on my personal experience, so don't bother arguing the point. I've glassed three hulls, and failed miserably in some aspect on each of them.

I'm reminded of when I first started as an apprentice carpenter, how all the journeymen would say that framing stairs was so difficult, that it was the measure of an accomplished carpenter, that it was where a man "really earned his money." What a load of crap. The most difficult job in building a house belongs to the hired hand who has to carry a 4' by 8' sheet of 5/8" tongue and groove plywood up a 12" in 12" pitch roof in the wind and rain, put it in place, straighten the rafters or trusses, pound it together, and nail it off. Glad I'm not that guy anymore. At least, I try not to be that guy!

And I've resolved to stay away from fiberglassing. I'm supposedly boatbuilding for enjoyment, and glassing has yet to give me so much as an instants pleasure. My next project will almost certainly be a cruising boat, either sail or power, strip-planked like Jamie describes, (as John-gardner describes at length in Building Small Craft) and I imagine that planking the hull will be the easiest aspect of building her...

By the way, in agreement with Oyster, I don't understand all this stuff about female molds, wedges, clamps etc., in reference to stripping a little boat. All that crap is extraneous, unless you just love complicating simple processes. I mean, what's wrong with staple holes? Are you worried that they're going to spring a leak? :D

Geez, sometimes I read what I've posted and wonder where the hell that came from. Maybe I shouldn't have started in on that second pot of coffee...

[ 10-26-2003, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: L.W. Baxter ]

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by davef:

I'm not sure I understand "Roger Dongray, specifies a first strip that's on a "great circle" over the hull to eliminate tapering and cheaters." I am assuming that he means to start stripping the hull on a buttock that runs more or less along a natural radius around mid-way down the hull and then planking both up (to the sheer) and down to the keel. Perhaps on some hulls this would prevent tapering but my experiene is that the strips will run out in an unpredicable and somewhat weird fashion as you approach the sheer line. You probably want to give some thought to the aesthetics if you don't plan on painting the hull. Ideally, the strips should run fairly horizontal at the shear which can be an interesting trick. I ran my "strips" on 45 degree angles and alternated between layers for strength. Then again, I knew I was going to paint.
On the Golant Gaffer plans, the first strip location is specified in terms of distances down from the sheer. It's not very far: a matter of a few inches as I recall, without digging out the plans. One adds strips above and below this (curved strip) and the claim is made that one does not ever have to taper. From construction article pics I've seen, this does appear to be true.

Mr. Dongray built his GG prototype out of a material called "Speed Strip", a patented product. Unlike bead and cove it has a profile with more surface area: the "male" side is like a half-round on a shoulder and the "female" side is the opposite. Compared to bead and cove, the Speed Strip also "locks" together more tightly. Speed Strip is now sold under license in the US and, last I checked was available in Atlantic ("white") Ceder.

The exterior sheathing on the boat is meant to be either CM or f-glass. In the only pics I've seen of a CM sheathed GG, the builder painted, as would I, no matter what sheathing I chose (mostly likely f-glass if I where to build the GG).

[DugT]

Would there be any drawbacks to building a stripper this way?

Rip the strips with no bevels and don't cove and bead them. Attach them to the moulds with those "plastic" nails made by Raptor. Also, nail them to each other between moulds to help keep the hull fair. Then, when finished stripping, go over the whole outside of the hull with thickened googe. Because the strips are cut square, the outside of the hull will have lots of longitudinal gaps to accept the googe. Nailing the strips together could be somewhat of a PITA, depending on the thickness of the strips, but those Raptor nails are sandable as well, so who cares if they stick out here and there and you have to cut them off and sand them? Then glass the outside and you're done...this method would be a fast way to get a round-bilged hull. It's been discussed before, but why doesn't anyone do it? It seems logical to me. What are the drawbacks? If it's the cost of the fasteners and the fact that you may have to buy Raptor's nail gun, wouldn't it be worth it considering the time and hassle saved? If I build a stripper, I would factor the cost of those fasteners into the total cost of the boat, just as I would the plywood, epoxy, etc.

[Jack Heinlen]

Jamie,

Nice boat! Thanks for the imput re grain orientation, and lack of sheathing. Very good information.

The method you speak of, though with less attention to grain orientation, has been used for three generations here in Maine, to build solid working hulls out of what was considered mostly waste. It is still, as you point out, a worthy consideration, though as I said, Alton Wallace didn't glue his planks together, just nailed them. He built inshore lobster skiffs, and general work boats, many of which still tend traps.

[NormMessinger]

That is pretty much how I built the hull for Prairie Islander, DugT but, without the nails and in most places, without the need to attach the strips temporarily to the mold. Since the boat is convex the strips tend to lay tight against the mold when bent. They need a little help to stay precisely aligned so I drilled an 1/8" hole and drove a wooden dowel through one into the next. Seems to me that bead and cove is a lot of extra work. As you say the gaps between strips are on the outside and filled with goop. I was surprised how narrow the gaps were even on the tightest turn of the bilge. They would be hardly noticable if one were to finish the hull bright. In the places where a plank need encouragement to lay against the mold I had some "L" shaped pieces of wood that I screwed into the mold along side the strip so no screw hole in the strip was necessary. They wouldn't have mattered but at the time I thought I might finish the inside bright. Now, I'm told it is too dark in there....

Working with epoxy and glass is not intuitive and I can see why someone would avoid it. No problem, lots of neat ways to build a boat.

[Gerald]

As for strip building in a female mold as suggested ....... I would rather not but would like to read about the results, after someone else has tried it.
The other portion. For example .....if you want to put a kick in the stern for paddle clearance or loft up something a bit different the wedges allow you to hold the strips in place. I am sure we could all agree that staples will not give you the same holding power that a wedge will. The arches or female molds placed over the male molds are cut out of scrap. Sooo ...... if the staples give you the holding power required or you can't spare the scrap plywood don't use wedges. Even building a straight hull I would use wedges because for me it is faster and I can lay up more strips in a day.
I may have missed something but darn this thread is hard to read!
Gerald

[Meerkat]

I always thought that one-off construction was done on a male mould. Seems easier than clambering around inside a (female) mould to do construction...

FWIW, the "mould" for the GG becomes the bulkheads and etc. Nothing left to waste.

[ 10-26-2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[cherokee]

meerkat,
i haven't been on here in a long time, but read alot of the posts, and think this such a great resource.
thanks for the topic as it meerkat as it is one i've been chewing on for some time. you mention 20'x7'x2.75'. what are you smitten with? sail i assume...
well this is a subject i feel i have some hard won experience with and can share with you what i've found to be true,IMPO! and so i'll spin a yarn on the subject, maybe theraputic too given my own 'stripper' nightmares.. :o
to date i've built six strip planked boats and one glued lap ply acorn skiff, which was my 4th enjoyable building exprnc!. i have three other wantabe boats on the board and in my heart- the lfh dble pdl canoe, a 18'x2.33sliding seat rowing wherry/open kayak- glued lap ply, and Gartsides 21'x7'x3.58' sloop(will he approve of glued lap ply? haven't asked yet, mod's necc?-minor i feel)
the first two boats i built still live and serve well and the romance of the building still warms my heart-canoes of 5-6:1 beam/lenght ratio- easy going there for sure, easy bends, low fibre stresses = low built-in stress- alls well.next i built my own design, a strip chine kayak w/bright finish fiddle bac fir deck-very lovely-16'x2.33'=6.8/1 B/L- piece of cake- :D strips not ply because i had the lumber.
next i tackled the chapple 9'pram. the learning gradient steepened here- :rolleyes: went into this one overconfident and unassuming based on the previous easy times! my plan was to build it w/ 3/8" cedar strips/ sand to5/16" and glass in and out.off the mould the hull deformed somewhat(not too bad) so i added the moulds temporarily and fit up lamnt'd frames on the stations to hold the shape. also the bends and twists became extreme forward and compelled alot of tapers and i recall some steelers being added. i got it done but it wasn't 'romantic'....lots of west filler,sanding and dust,dust,dust-:eek: ...9'x4'=2.25/1 B/L - oh well i had a new boat....onward and upward!
then i became quite enamored with the lf herreshoff narraganst bay boat and began my schemeing...3/4" fir strips on lmnt'd station frames, sort of like grey seal which i have plans for too, but personally i can't tear myself away from those lfh pipe dreams(solitaire,dulcinea,diddikai) and i like slackish-bilge hull forms to wide&flat for comfort and weatherly-ness etc etc, relatively speaking....also solid fir lumber is easy for me to get,marine ply not so(grey seal)..so i commenced one summer..the nbb is 20x6.33 =3,16/1 B/L -no probs! a few tapers maybe...HAH!... now i'm in much deeper and for one person working alone on a 2-3,000 lb disp hull being built under an awning in a 4 season climate- it took me four years to get the hull faired/glassed and rolled over. given the normal flows/responsabilities, etc of life it sat idle another two after that,when in theory i could of worked on it. given the hull form the bends/edgeset/twists and resulting high fibre stesses(approaching the woods proportional limits) became extreme after the turn of the bilge, many almost-stealers were required. it was not pretty,previous stripper-romance gone by now. but once faired/glassed and color coated to cover and hide all those cans of microlite filler it was really pretty to be sure,and i have some photos of here in her cradle - before the sawzall work began later :( i had extended a counter stern to a curved raked hondmahog transom,22' oal, and to simpify the build wisely faired out the minimal garboard tuck, losing little displacement volume, and planned a deadwood/ballast/rudder complex.
a chronology of how it unfolded- i got the hull half planked that first year using wood dowels to align the edges instead of nails- the way the gougeon bros suggest- very much more romantic than nails! i merrily covered her for the winter rains and cold nights,innocent of what was to come. well my building site lacked the desired building shed we all dream of, an awning shade worked well and afforded me the park like views i have to the south as i mixed,mixed,mixed,fill,fill,fill those caulking tubes...
there was a sort of 'seasonal stream' flowing under the big boats ladder frame strongback during the winter storms...you get the picture... bare wood hull, atmos'rc moisture = expansion. i whistled to work on her come next June, pulled back the tarp and Horrors! a 1/2" rent had devoleped port and starboard, about 6'long on one side and 8' the other, in the middle of the 3 foot wide sections of planking P&S. this failure was my own i admit due to lack of proper building site and control, not the method, but illustrates what can happen to many of us home builders. but hey one of my boatbuilding mentors g. buehler laughs these things off in spirit and so will i, so a quick stirring in of a few pounds of coarse d. fir dust and half a gal of G.B.'s high dollar goo and we're back to fair, and whistlin' away on the planking,happy in gloves,long sleeves @90 dgrs fahrenhite, respirator exhausting dropplets, and ordering another case of those disposable caulking gun tubes...oh the romance of it all... i finished the planking that 2nd summer,learning the dispicable art of taper feathering strips and how to quickfill a caulking tube, then apply 20'+ beads of glue in hot weather and getting the next strip on before the glue kicks off...romantic!... my galfriend read her rose garden books instead of helping. does she know something i don't??? :confused:
another winter past before i could fill and fair and sheath the hull, but i was attentive that winter and uncovered the hull between storms- got through o.k.
then the following yeari got to indulge in longlongboarding sessions, rebuilding my pecs for the paddling season, with 36x belt sander belts on thin d.fir plattens. i recall 2 big cans of microlite going into the process with the inherent sanding sessions with that too, finally arriving with a patchy-work but sound hull.
i sheathed w/ 7.5 oz. grey colored the underbody and white topsides so i could feel some kind of reward for it all, knowing i still had a long way to go. but i felt very good about it all and lfh's boats have that appeal that makes it worth it :D
the 7.5 oz sheathing began to crack and break through at the stem- from suble but powerful seasonal humidy changes- epoxy sheathing is NOT impervious to vaporous transmission - this is the 'zippering' effect Gartside talks of.
it got so bad after awhile that i had to give up on the hull. i felt it was likely only the beginning, knew it had no great resale/long range value given my alterations, still needed hundreds of hours and $$$$ to complete...so i cut my loses, and pondered long what i could learn from it, what are the limits/caveats of strip building.
later i spoke with paul gartside about two of his boats, surprise and the 21' sloop- which i hope to build and sail, and the strip building problems.
now IMPO-i feel that a hull form of 3.5:1 B/L or so min. and fairly concentric sections which minimize twists/radical compound distortions of thestrips can yield a fine serving hull. when you start getting into the fatter hulls plan on either lots of tapering strips/time or running two or three courses of planking. i'd edgenail w/ brnz ring shank nails and use strips narrow - 1.5 x thkns. and don't count on glass sheathing for transverse strengh in lew of frames,bulkheads,maybe in light dispmnt hullslike canoes kayaksbut not in med & high d/l ratios with outside ballast a lots of opposing forces/loads and energies/dynamics.... think about it. when i talked to gartside he said MAYBE using heavy biaxial e-glass- maybe! i pondered that- how many gallons?!
i feel it foolish to build in stresses aproaching woods failure point. you have a hull which is always ready to explode in some areas of its structure. this is why steamed frames fail so often in the tight bilge tuck area of so many boats- ie folkboats etc. the fibres reach there limits in tension and after lots of cycles, fail. to me that is poor engineering and design, &/or builder execution.
for trailer and dry stored boats of beefer B/L's i feel good plywood is the saneist investment, be they chine forms or lapstrake. they go together quicker, don't require the oceans of epoxy and the much forgotten un-romance of sanding the stuff.not to mention where it all goes ie: your garden or your neighbors, or even the landfill. either way it's got to go somewhere and it ain't edible. :rolleyes:
gartside advocates strip/veneer in many of his designs also which is very sound for sure. but again lots of epoxy and building the hull 3-4 times. for a first boat project that might be fun/romantic,....but after a few the fun disappears and quicker structurally sound methods become appealing. and most of us boat dreamers here love the traditional look and lapstrake has it in spades ;) oughtreds method is quite appealing i think all in all.
so there's the long reply, i wanted to share that story as well as the experience. it seems alot of builders out there think strip planking is all around great,in one thread i recall a few skeptics questioning gartsides logic regarding his disclaiming strip bldg. at the time i wondered- do these critics have his experience? as with all building in this world success is proper marriage of material to form and performance req'mnts, and good builder execution.
'nuf from me! good luck meerkat! and thanks in general to all on this the best of boater forums! goodday, john

[On Vacation]

There are occasions of one-off construction of hulls, built in fiberglass or composite materials, in female moulds. This starts with a male form that is fair and smoothe, and then glassed over with tooling materials and then layers of glass for a female mould. Some are two piece sections bolted together to form a hull, or built as two seperate pieces, so to aid the removal of the pieces becuase of the particular shape. You may get by with doing a hull, with a hard chine design and straight side in a make shift mould. But boy what a wrestling job with strips, and glue, waxing when a simple male jig, with even sacrifical OSB board can be done in less time, and surely ends up more true, than a working blinded and messing with fits with solid wood material. How it will perform when done handling all this mess and how true it will be, well you make the call.

Care to pay for the tooling and time, to create a boat before you build a boat, just to save the time required in sanding and fairing the sides smoothe, for one hull? Love to see the fit of strips in a fixed mould on the outside of the hull, though. Teach me something. Sounds like a lot of fumbling going on. But I am not above learning new techingues. Now let me clean my screen.

Now that I think about it, one time Ken Hankinson promoted this method. I would think, it sounds better than it works. Well this has been fun. Keep us updated with your progress and time invloved.

[ 10-26-2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[DugT]

Norm,

The 1/8" dowel trick is a good one...hadn't thought of that...cheap too. While we're on the subject of strip-planked hulls, the plans I have are for a small sailboat by Paul Fisher called the Inishmore 10. Here is a link to the design:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Otherupto10.htm#INI

What do you (or anyone else)think of this boat for learning to sail? I've never sailed before. I'd like to get some input before building. Thanks.

[Jack Heinlen]

Man, good lord, and thank ya Jesus, have another look at the sloop Jamie has posted. Gorgeous.

P.S. Ya ought bring your bumbers in while ya don't need 'em Jamie. Looks lubberly. smile.gif

[ 10-26-2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[On Vacation]

Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
Man, good lord, and thank ya Jesus, have another look at the sloop Jamie has posted. Gorgeous.

P.S. Ya ought bring your bumbers in while ya don't need 'em Jamie. Looks lubberly. smile.gif Jack, that keeps the guys, in the slip, next to him, from rubbing up next to him, in a wind situation. Later

[Jamie Hascall]

Thanks Jack, she really is a beauty. :D That shot was taken the day after last years Port Townsend WB Fest and the day before had been very gusty and squally. The protection was definitely in order.

I think I'll take your advice Oyster and keep her here in the inland waters. That's what she was designed for and could only be more perfect for cruising the NW if she had a pilothouse. She's supposedly been to Hawaii and back but I know I can scare myself silly right here thank you very much. :eek: The unframed and unclad strip planked construction is very stout and has lasted 34 years and more than one grounding but I think that if there was a major failure of a joint between strips, it would be catastrophic. That said, I think the forces that would cause such failure would put any craft in danger.

I think people should think hard about gluing surface and suitability of a glue for a specific wood when looking at this type of strip planking. The combination of Western Redcedar and urea formaldehyde has proved to be a good match even though the UF is only considered water resistant. Where teak was glued with the same glue, all seams have let go. Knowing how carefully this boat was built, I'd bet those joints were properly prepped and close fitting, but in the end the wood and glue just weren't a good match. The hull seams are all tight fitting so the glue didn't need to be gap filling, and the wood was able to accept the glue well to provide a good bond.

I have no doubt that if coming owners give her the care that I and those that came before me have given her, Victoria will be around for many years to come.

Jamie

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/p94773f9f29ff7e2e10dac5cb7bbe1857/fb25548b.jpg.orig.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p4899715a9814a8b9a9957d07c2ac4537/fb9128eb.jpg.orig.jpg

[brian.cunningham]

I helped Ted Warren out this summer at his shop.
All his boats are stripped planked

This one is strip planked with Western Red Cedar
http://www.warrenmultihulls.com/images/w27yard.jpg
http://www.warrenmultihulls.com/images/w27full.jpg
http://www.warrenmultihulls.com/w-27.htm

[ 10-28-2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: brian.cunningham ]

[Aramas]

Actually it's easy to strip plank using ply female half moulds - easier and less work and waste than a male mould, and better access. It's used on multis more than monos though - multihull builders tend to be a little less dogmatic than mono builders :rolleyes: The only thing to watch is making sure the mould structure is stiff enough to resist the bending moments of the strips on a half hull.

I should start putting Gwenda together next year, so I'll do a web site on how it's done. I've also seen it in books and on websites, but I can't find any atm.

edit: Oyster - I just found your 'bilge tone' post - these threads get really messy when people put big pics in. Perhaps if someone asks in a more appropriate manner, I could expand. Whatever you do don't look at Farrier's site - especially the part about planking female half moulds transversely with foam - I doubt your heart could take it!
:D Farrier's female half mould construction method (http://www.f-boat.com/pages/construction/index.html)

I learned a lot from my father and grandfather, and almost all of it involved not making the same mistakes that they did. They may as well have bought their opinions as a job lot at the local pub, since I seriously doubt that they've ever actually thought about a single one of them. They dedicated their lives to money and the approved 'manly pursuits', while assiduously avoiding emotional, intellectual or spiritual growth. They know no more about human nature and relationships now than they did when they were 20. Fortunately they have mellowed with age (as even vinegar does), so the women in their lives no longer need to wear sunglasses and heavy makeup.

The past was not and has never been a 'Golden Age', or even an age of innocence. It was an age of ignorance ruled over by the politics of hate and fear. Those of us that are relatively enlightened see no reason to slavishly adhere to traditionalist dogma, and indeed have every reason to discard it.

There's always a better way, and chances are someone has already done it, but they haven't reached the critical numbers that it takes to sway the naysayers - um, I mean 'conservatives'. Everything I have done in my life was contrary to the loudly expressed 'advice' of the naysayers, and so far they've been proven wrong every time. Them's pretty good odds. I'm not even vaguely interested in what the 'majority' does or even thinks. I'm well aware of what they are, and let's just say I'm thankful for evolution.

Any chance of getting those pics sorted out, DaveF? You probably just need to remove the 'orig.jpg' tag from the end of each link.

[ 10-29-2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[cs]

Meer I like the idea of strip planking. When I get started on my Friendship I plan on converting it from Carvel to strip plank.

Chad

[Paul Brooks]

Hi, I'm just coming up to finishing my Golant Gaffer. The hull strips can be fixed without any spiling - just follow Roger's measurements for the first strip. It is a pretty messy and tiring job, but very effective.
The speed strip style of product is readily available over here (from at least two suppliers) and in my opinion is just a loose (ish) tongue and groove. I've no experience of bead and cove, but other builders have said the T&G style is easier to align and fix. Looking at bead & cove, I'd say they were right.

I've glassed the outside, which is quick and straightforward (though I would use CPES as a "primer" for the epoxy if I was doing it again). The design as whole is really quite clever and well thought out - please feel free to contact me about any other aspects of building one of these if you want to.

Best regards
Paul