"Authentic Restoration?" Tell me why.

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

The boat I've succeeded to was built in 1941 to a class rule. One of twenty. The interior was stripped and redone in the late fifties. The fellow from who I bought her stripped that out and began fitting to suit his needs. Now I've got an empty shell, the class rules and floor plans from others of her class. Only one other like her in the Western Hemisphere. About a half a dozen in Norway. So, matey what say you? Do I fit her out to suit myself or follow the class rules? ... and why?

[WFK]

your boat, 1 of 20 was built in 1941. Whens the next time you're all going to get together for a regatta. I say make it comfy.

Bill

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Hi Bill,
If all goes well, I hope she will make one regatta. I posit the question because "authenticity" seems to permiate so many of the threads. It is almost an end in itself. Anyway, two for comfy (my wife as already weighed in.)

[imported_Conrad]

Ah, have it your way! If at some point in the future the demand for this particular boat should excede 20 a new/additional one can be built from the class plans. These days you can even get old wood from old buildings, that will make it more official.

As a practical matter, the market has set a value for your boat- what's it worth in original condition verses with the changes you'd like to make? What is it worth to you in each condition? Are any of the differences significant to the market or you? A harsh truth is that very few people buy old wooden boats because that's what they really want- if you've got the one you want, might as well make it fit your dreams as well as you can, because the reality is, original or not, it doesn't fit many others at all. Personally, I'm sure I'm not the first guy to have way more into his boat than it will ever be worth, so if I'm going to be financially stupid/reckless/etc. (pick your own adjective) I'm at least going to be happy, and have it suit me, not some holy grail of wooden boatdom!

[Bruce Hooke]

Unless the boat is of major historic significance I would say go for what you want but go for an overall look and feel that is in keeping with the rest of the boat and the time in which it was built. I find it jarring to go into an old house and find a very modern looking sleek kitchen. I have nothing against a kitchen in such a house that includes modern appliances, but the cabinets and counters should feel like they belong in the house. The same principles apply to a boat...actually, when 'authentic' comes up around here, I'd guess that it's mostly this sort of authenticity rather than 'authentic' as in following exactly the original plans.

[ 09-22-2002, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

[Jack Heinlen]

The class rules don't include the interior arrangement, do they? Maybe you mean the original layout?

Unless this is an important artifact of some kind(from what you say, not), I'm with Bill: build for your needs and comfort.

A challenge indeed. The original layout, 1941, probably was pretty good. Do some reading around interior layout, consider your needs, and then have after it.

Titles re layout escape me, but there are some good ones, which some of our other fine contributors will, hopefully, add. Searching the WB archives would turn up some interesting thoughts.

Consider the uses you intend to put the boat to, ie. day sailing, cruising, or racing, etc. "Sensible Cruising Designs", by LFH, does come to mind.

Best of luck,

Jack

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Actually the rules provide that the interior have at least four fixed beds of a min. size of 193x63 mm and one folding bed in the forepeak. One locker for clothes and one for kitchen tools and one ice box. With a 34' X 9' boat this kinda limits what one can do.

I don't know if she if of "historical note." I guess I could try and contact some owners of other class boats in Norway.

Not much original wood left in her though she still has her sweet shape.

Thanks for the reference for interiors. I've been looking (drooling) over Ferenc Mate's book on World's Best but,not many boats with dimensions as small as mine.

[A. Mason]

Your boat sounds similar to a 5-metre but with a cabin. In that era it was common to race cruising boats. Since yours was considered a one design class, yes therre would have been rules for the interior, to keep the playinf field level when racing.

However, since racing in class is out these days for your boat, I would suggest you simply use the class rules regarding interiors as a general guide.

When my father designed an interior arrangement for a boat, it was merely a suggestion on how to arrange all the bits - berths, galley, toilet room, stowage space, hanging lockers, nav station, etc.

You're dealing with a finite amount of space and there really aren't that many choices. I would caution against doing anything extreme with the space - it might lower its resale value.

Play around with a few ideas and then do an actual "mock up" in the interior. What looks perfect on paper might not be so comfy full size. Another thread discussed this, and suggestions included using cardboard, foam core, thin cheap plywood and duct tape to test out the feasibility.

The one "rule" you need to always keep in mind is to make sure the weight of everything is balanced - fore and aft; bow to stern. And, don't move the bulheads.

Less obvious considerations to keep in mind is how large the water tanks are, and the fuel tanks if any. Boats of that vintage carried very little water or fuel. If it was designed for cruising racing, then the tanks were probably even smaller than normal.

The "class rules for interiors" were designed for spartan accommodations since the primary function of the boat was to race.

Creating a comfortable interior for ordinary cruising is not a sin. You're obviously not going for a museum quality restoration, and since the boat is no longer original, it's a moot point.

Be sure to do the mock-ups, I'd hate to think of you spending all the time and money necessary to finish out the interior and then discover you aren't as comfy as you thought you would be.

If you think about it for a moment, all of the "class" cruising boats of today, even though they are mass produced cookie-cutter boats, normally have a choice of interior arrangements to suit individual tastes.

BTW, one of my father's clients had the yard where their boat was being built leave openings for access to the area between the frames and the hull exterior, particularly below the waterline. The purpose was so the wife could store four dozen eggs in a cool, dry out of the way area for long open water passages in the South Pacific.

Hope this helps, Anita

[Dave Alexander]

I'm in a similar "boat". Sail # 282 of the Blue Jay, of which there are apparently multi-thousands. Do I use it for a mold for a stitch and tape replacement? Or try and restore it? Since I only want to sail on a local lake, I'm just interested in something that sails. So the only concern is which is easier...fixing the wooden one, or making a new one. Unless someone "really" wants an old Blue Jay to really restore.

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Thanks everyone for your considered responses. Very helpful dispelling catholic guilt lingering from grade school.

[Bayboat]

Given the circumstances, the advice to build the layout you want rather than one consistent with class rules is OK, but with some reservations. As A. Mason suggested, be very careful about moving bulkheads, and also about making major changes that will affect the trim & balance. Full tanks weigh a lot, and so does gear piled into a specific space not provided for in the original design. If you are not a designer, the best approach is to engage a professional, tell him what you want for accommodations, and he will draw a set of plans consistent with the design and construction of the boat, taking into account all that a good designer knows. There's a lot to it that even a good boatwright usually doesn't know.

[Bob Adams]

Gee...in my household, when She Who Must Be Obeyed voted comfort, the debate would have been over :rolleyes:

[ 09-25-2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Bob Adams ]

[Adam C]

My is also a class boat, hull #19 of 20 built. I modified her interior to make it comfy, but keeping with the theme. Everyone likes it, even the purists, even if it is a little fancy.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

My boat is one of one, but when confronted with a stripped out shell, the original drawings and my recollection of how uncomfortable she was like that, I reflected that her hull and sailplan were drawn by a naval architect of vast experience, but the cabin plan was drawn by her first owner, when he was 27, and I was 40+. So I ditched it, and built what I wanted. Now I have only myself to blame.

I have, however, carefully retained her external appearance save for a pair of winches on the cockpit coamings.

[Scott Rosen]

I like Anita's advice. It's got to be comfortable enough so you'll use it, well balanced so it doesn't hurt the sailing qualities of the boat, and somewhat in keeping with the aesthtics of the design.

That probably rules out the shag carpet, vibrating bed and mirrored overhead you were thinking of.

[ 09-26-2002, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Wild Wassa]

Geo, Skipper, She will sail comfortably with high quality fittings. Good quality fittings are less fatiguing. That's building-in comfort.

Recently, I saw boats that I've raced against, it's as though their Skippers have given them computer upgrades. I still can't cope with the Kevlar sails. The sails that look like Cicada wings, they are all over as well. Super transparent kites. Sail choice is important. Authentic white is needed.

Warren.

ps, One thing I find interesting about sailing, is looking through 'other' Skipper's sails. How authentic can you afford to remain?

[ 09-26-2002, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Dale R. Hamilton]

If you know there atre severa; copies of this boat in Norway- I'd go to Norway and see them. Travel ain't that much these days- and if you came back with one good idea- it would be worth it.

[imported_Spissgatter W-9]

Warren: The sails were made between 1958 - 60 in England by Ratsey Lapthorn. I've taken them to Schattauer Sails in Seattle to see if they can repair and clean. A quick look at one sail was promising. However, they said they would get back with me since I wasn't in a big hurry and they were busy. We think alike on sails and rigging.

Dale: I like your idea about going to Norway! Will have to look into further.

Thanks for the input