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Lew Barrett
09-14-2007, 12:52 PM
A bit of a sad...and shaggy story, but here's a rant on BoatLife Life Caulk and why I won't be buying it again.

Two years ago, with the help of Tim Regan, caulker and shipwright, we embarked on digging out the old white lead in the deck seams which, after 70 years, had finally started to come undone. To make a long story short, I intended to varnish the decks, and into the bargain, we had a cold winter, which was the season we embarked on the project.

I employed Tim because he has a lot of experience with this type of work, and we'd worked together successfully before. Tim handled the caulking, reefing and filling, and I took over the back-filling (there were some voids), deck repairs (there were some graving pieces needed, resetting stanchions and the like) and the jobus horribulus of re-fairing (longboard!) the decks and laying on eight coats of varnish.

During the process, the question of what material to use to pay the decks came up, and because I wanted to varnish them, and despite some misgivings we mutually had, we settled on Boatlife. TDS, while a desired option, doesn't take varnish so we ruled it out (but more on that anon). Last season things worked pretty well (mostly) and I conveniently ignored the evidence of leakage through the decks (Roger Morris probably remembers that afternoon in the boathouse when we discussed some dribbles). Rita lives in her house all year, and it's possible (but unlikely) that we could go boating with very little evidence of leaks simply because she doesn't sit out.
Anyway, this year we weren't so lucky. Our first days out it rained a good deal. Many of the underdeck cabinets began to weep and water intruded through some open seams. On close examination, I saw that the caulking material was pulling away from one side (or another) of the decking in numerous spots. After a good soak, things did take up, and the leaking abated considerably for the remainder of the trip, but still.........
I called Tim yesterday, and like the mensch he is he said; "hey don't worry....I warranty my work, and I want you to be happy. I'll call you and we'll do it over again. I'll come up with a gentle way to repay the decks." So, this long and tedious job is going to happen again, probably later this winter or in early spring.
Lesson learned. We'll look into Teak Deck Systems, and consider masking the deck when I varnish. I'm grateful Tim is a mensch and a stand up guy, and I feel like we both got the shaft. Pappa will fix, but Oy Vey!

Rob Stokes, N. Vancouver
09-14-2007, 05:54 PM
You needed a winter project anyways - right? Lew?...

OK - maybe not.

Sorry to hear of your woes - I hope the next round lasts another 70 years.

Rob

TimH
09-14-2007, 05:59 PM
thats what slick seam is for :-)

Jay Greer
09-14-2007, 06:00 PM
Lew, I may be set in my ways but I make sure that I use products that have been proven by the test of time. The old oil based seam compounds are proven to work better than the new stuff that contains more hot air than reliability.
Jay

TimH
09-14-2007, 06:03 PM
Polysulfide has stood the test of time for some things....


not sure what yet.

at least its better than silicone.

Lew Barrett
09-14-2007, 06:16 PM
Jay, set in your ways you may indeed be, but there's method in the madness. Speak again about Jeffries Marine Glue, and other such things. I'm unclear about oil based fillers but that's probably because oil based products draw up images of Dolphinite and Pettit seam compound, and I don't understand how those work on a painted or varnished deck. This would be my side decks, that one walks on to set fenders and work the boat.
I'd suppose you wouldn't paint or varnish them, rather leave them to silver, but there's this cosmetic issue.......



Polysulfide has stood the test of time for some things....


not sure what yet.

at least its better than silicone.

Had this feeling in the pit of my stomach and the part of my mind that actually has gears when we made the selection, but then brushed it aside thinking "Failure? That's for other people.":rolleyes:
Worse things have happened. Slick Seam ain't in my vocabulary.:D

Jay Greer
09-14-2007, 10:32 PM
I would suggest you contact the Sandusky Paint and or Geo. Kirby paint Co. and discuss your needs. Oil based seam compounds are designed to be painted or varnished over. It just involves a bit more work to keep the seams pristine. Often, white seams are masked off and painted on varnished launches in order to give a fresh clean look. It is a lot of work! A striping brush comes in handy.
Jay

Kim Whitmyre
09-15-2007, 12:00 AM
The voice of inexperience speaking here, but I have seen a product designed for Boatlife that is applied prior to Boatlife itself: supposedly makes it stick better.

I scraped and sanded my rubrails earlier this year: primed them with gloss enamel thinned 50% with turpentine, and then caulked the joint with Boatlife, followed by a topcoat of paint. I can see a few places that have opened a bit, but I'm not sure if it's the caulk or the wood, seeing as it's oak.

Lew Barrett
09-15-2007, 03:21 AM
Often, white seams are masked off and painted on varnished launches in order to give a fresh clean look. It is a lot of work! A striping brush comes in handy.
Jay

One of the thoughts was that using this stuff I'd avoid the masking. The thought should have been a passing one, but went into production instead. I thought I should report on my failures, as well as the successes to keep the game fair, and for the record.

Kim,
They make a primer for it but they won't be getting a second chance on this job.

ssor
09-15-2007, 09:01 AM
I had a simular but much smaller problem with a hatch that I built. When it dried out the caulk pulled away from the edges. I determined that "allows 50% joint movement" doesn't mean much if the joints are fairly tight. 50% of an 1/8 inch doesn't gp very far.

holzbt
09-15-2007, 10:03 AM
I remember getting into a pissing match with Allen Foote on this forum many years ago about this. I've never had a good experience with boatlife products in over thirty years of messing with boatbuilding and repair. At the time the chemist launched into a most informative diatribe about Boatlife's cost cutting measures of using a high % of cheap fillers and why the stuff couldn't possibly work well. If someone knows how to dredge up really old threads I think you'd find some interesting reading.

Stiletto
09-15-2007, 07:37 PM
It occurs to me from using seam sealants in non marine applications that 'bond breakers' are often called for.

These are a system where something is put in the bottom of the seam to be sealed so that the sealant is gripping only the sides of the seam.

The manufacturer's instructions claim that having only two of the three sides adhered allows the sealant to stretch and compress without the uneven forces that seam bottom adherence would cause, resulting in tearing away of the sealant.

Does the caulking act in the same way?

Lew Barrett
09-15-2007, 07:54 PM
Stil,
Every seam is caulked, has been re-caulked actually, as she was built. I don't question Tim's caulking in the least; it's his stock and trade. I'd think that the cotton fibers, by their nature, would be very elastic in the sense that they would yield quickly to the pressure of expansion and contraction. I'm sticking with the original premise that we selected the wrong material for the job. A lot of care and time was put into this by a guy who's specialty is decking. And another guy who's specialty is talking:D