Small, traditional lapstrake boats.

[Michael Beckman]

Hello, I have been looking for plans for a traditionally built lapstrake small boat, but have been pretty much out of luck. I am trying to find something in the range of 12-15'11" feet(trying to avoid the legal registration stuff). This will be my first boat, and first major woodworking project. I have made spars, and turned various things, but haven't done anything similar to boat building. I am building this boat as a senior project for school, and have the support of several knowledgable shipwrights and woodworkers.

I guess my dream boat would be a norwegian style pram, about 15' long, with a dipping lug main and standing lug mizzen. I'm just not entirely sure how to go about finding such a boat. I am primarily trying to find something that will be economical to build(I should have access to wood, possibly by felling my own tree), and that will make a capable beach cruiser. I do not want a racing boat, whatsoever. A cabin is unnessecary, and in fact not desired. I've learned to cruise in 26' longboats, and am accustomed to spending a week rowing against the wind in heavy rain. So I guess I want a boat that will serve as my own personal longboat that doesn't require 12 people to operate. Ideally I could cram as many as 5-6 people aboard, but 2-3 would be a more common number. So yeah, throw everything you have at me, I'm more then willing to listen to reason.

Thanks, Michael.


Oh, I forgot to explain what a longboat is. This should help: http://lh4.google.com/Stuparman/RkKZuamgYTI/AAAAAAAABa0/Cleduxi2zGc/s400/L11-Juandefuca-Strait-Sept7-06-cde06.jpg

[Paul Pless]

I guess my dream boat would be a norwegian style pram, about 15' long, with a dipping lug main and standing lug mizzen. I'm just not entirely sure how to go about finding such a boat.

Here's a 12' pram from forum member Thad.
He owns Redd's Pond Boatworks.

http://www.reddspondboatworks.com/thad9.jpg

I'm not sure I'd choose a pram as a sailing beach cruiser though...
What about something like this Hvalsoe 13?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1410/534587914_3ae09e8e37_o.jpg

[Michael Beckman]

I have found a couple of plans that seem to fit the bill, though they aren't really the style of boat I'm looking for.

Alone (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Alone.html)
Little Scout (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/LittleScout.html)

Alone is tempting, but appears to be very poorly set up for rowing. Little scout is more appealing from a rowing perspective, but I'm not sure how it would be for cruising. I would probably try a different rig on little scout, perhaps a yawl. Or perhaps even trying to mimic the longboats rig(which I beleive is a schooner?) 3 masted set ups still confuse me. A main, a shorter fore, and an even shorter mizzen. Maybe a bit too much for a 15' boat, but I would like a main and mizzen, with perhaps a bowsprit to add potential for a jib set flying. I'm just sort of rambling on with ideas here once again. >__>

Ooh, that Hvalsoe 13 looks like a great day sailor. I'm not particularly fond of the sprit rig, but I could probably figure out another method to do that. Unfortunantly it doesn't appear to be very cruisable. I'm really hoping to have room for two people, two sleeping bags in drybags, two personal gear dry bags, and a bag or two of food. Add in cooking gear and theres quite a large amount of gear.

[neilm]

You live in the right place to seek advice and try out some boats. I would start by reading some books by John Gardner, Greg Rossel and others then talk to the locals. Pick a simple design like a dory or semi-dory. Woodenboat magazine has some lumberyard skiff designs too.

Neil

[Daniel Noyes]

I have to second the dory Idea. lets see, free plans (Gardners "Dory Book")! relatively simple construction! extremely economical use of materials, designed to carry a load! and get you home safe!

really the dory is the only choice for a beginner builder looking for a traditional lapstrake boat on a budget.
look at the Nahant dory, the Chamberlain gunning dory and Chamberlains legendary Alpha Dory (yes this is a racing machine but it is also nearly identical to the lobstering Swampscott boats that carried hundreds of pounds of gear.
Dan

[Daniel Noyes]

I have to second the dory Idea. lets see, free plans (Gardners "Dory Book")! relatively simple construction! extremely economical use of materials, designed to carry a load! and get you home safe!

really the dory is the only choice for a beginner builder looking for a traditional lapstrake boat on a budget.
look at the Nahant dory, the Chamberlain gunning dory and Chamberlains legendary Alpha Dory (yes this is a racing machine but it is also nearly identical to the lobstering Swampscott boats that carried hundreds of pounds of gear.
Dan

[Yeadon]

Ooh, that Hvalsoe 13 looks like a great day sailor. I'm not particularly fond of the sprit rig, but I could probably figure out another method to do that. Unfortunantly it doesn't appear to be very cruisable. I'm really hoping to have room for two people, two sleeping bags in drybags, two personal gear dry bags, and a bag or two of food. Add in cooking gear and theres quite a large amount of gear.

Hvalsoe has a bigger boat, 15 feet 10 inches, too. (aka the Hvalsoe 16.)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1066/1346471789_9393f32b6e.jpg

However, I'd consider a "new jersey garvey," pram-bowed, about 16 feet, with lots of stability and a bit of a v-shape to the plywood hull.

A while back I was out sailing on Lake Union here in Seattle, and this guy sails by in a nice wind (maybe 13-15 knots) in such a boat. His wife was up near the bow reading a newspaper, and he was having a blast sailing (leaning forward, big grin). The boat had a leg-o-mutton. It was really cool.

So, I got up close in CWB's Flattie and hollered,"hey what kinda boat is that?"
He said it was a "new jersey garvey!" Wish I'd got a decent photo. Looked like a great beach cruiser, and probably easier to build than my own boat, a 15' lapstrake peapod, big food, which fits your criteria, though I have a sprit rig.

big food
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1237/1408662142_541f5fffd5.jpg

[Thorne]

Sounds like you have three main things driving the decision: Use, Materials, and Budget.

Use - The amount of passengers and gear sounds like you'll need that max size of 15'+, but that will slow the rowing speed of the boat when alone. You have many designs to choose from, from faerings (narrow Nordic) to dory skiffs (beamy) and more. Simpler will be cheaper.

Materials will be another issue, as you don't mention what type of wood you have -- this is critical to what you build. Curing wood for boatbuilding can take over a year -- do you have the time?

Budget can be another deal-breaker, as we all remember how strapped we were as students. Boats like you want often go for $5-9k rigged for sail on a decent trailer, and building costs are often well over half that (if not more than the sale price).

[Michael Beckman]

I don't know the wood type yet, and I have about 8 months for this project, starting right now. Sail and rigging should be quite cheap, as I have a few people that I can probably work for to make my own rig. Wood I am hoping to work out some sort of deal with a local lumberyard, perhaps. I am beginning to think I need look at something smaller. Cruising is not really a nessecity, though I will probably attempt a few weekend trips regardless of what I end up building. I suppose what a I really need is an able rowing/sailing boat, with room for 2-3 people on board. Something that I could put in the back of my truck would be nice, but I do have an unlicensed, unlit trailer available. Alone is looking nicer all the time, though I don't see how to row it with the shown thwart layout.

[StevenBauer]

I'd consider designs from Iain Oughtred, John Welsford, Paul Fisher, and Francois Vivier to start.

Google is your friend. :D

Steven

Oh yeah, be sure to check out the Small Reach Regatta thread here on the Forum.

[Paul Pless]

You should look into this book and others from the same author (John Gardner) available from our host.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/images/300022S.JPG

Building Classic Small Craft (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=300%2D022)

[Thorne]

Depending on available materials, Ian Oughtred's faering designs might work, as they can be built from either marine ply or solid wood, and row really well.

Sailing them is trickier, and they wouldn't be as burdensome as wider designs, but they might fit most of your needs.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Woodfish1.jpg
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/gallery?KID=31

This fellow is on this forum and others, and has a Ness Yawl and similar boat which are cruised in your area -

http://www.slaughterhousegallery.com/Ness%20Yawl/Images/KS9thumb.jpg

http://www.slaughterhousegallery.com/Ness%20Yawl/NYHome.htm

[Michael Beckman]

Wow, I really love this færing. (http://www.viking-boats.com/faering.htm)

I'll have to show this one too the powers that be. (teachers/mentors>__>)

[Green Boat]

You should take a look at American Small sailing craft by Chappelle. Many a great boat in that book.

[Woxbox]

The faering is the ticket. Beautiful boat, and not overly complex. Here's Elf under sail. That sprit rig is a very handy thing, too.
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Elf2.JPG

[Steve Paskey]

The faering is lovely, but keep in mind that she has less capacity for her length than a transom-sterned boat.

I can think of a couple of other boats you might like. Here's one, the 15' "Christmas Wherry" from Walt Simmons:

http://www.duck-trap.com/newwherry.html

[Steve Paskey]

The other is the "Daisy 15" from Harry Bryan:

http://www.harrybryan.com/harrybryan/plans2.html

Harry's design is beautiful -- she's sort of a dory-skiff, with a narrow flat bottom. Plus, the plans are fairly inexpensive, and she was designed for traditional construction rather than glued lapstrake plywood.

[Wiley Baggins]

I think you're asking a lot of a 12'-14' boat. The 15'11" seems more likely to get you where you want to be, 5 to 6 people is a crowd. The first links (1 and 1a) speak to your desire for something traditional and simple while the third (2) shows a nice interpretation in plywood. It too offers something close to what you're describing and simply needs to be shortened modestly and modified for more traditional construction - a process that should be relatively simple given your resources as far as advisors go. Good luck.

(1) http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=SE&Currency=SEK&Page=Boatplans

(1a) http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=SE&Currency=SEK&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=49

(2) http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=12

[Michael Beckman]

I've rethought what I want in a boat a bit. Something smaller, with an emphasis on rowing, but sailing possibilities. Upwind performance doesn't really matter to me(I'm used to longboats:p). I'm now thinking of this: http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=EN&Currency=USD&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=5
with a dipping lug rig.

[sv Lorelei]

I'm just finishing up a Selway Fisher Islay Skiff and I'll say this if you're looking at doing a design with 6 or more strakes a side (I've got 8). Its a lot more work (time) than doing an Ian Outred design as you have so many more seams and have to do a lot more cutting and fitting. It isn't necessarily more complex, but I guarantee you, it will take you significantly longer to complete (especially for a first time builder) for similar size boats than three or four strakes per side.

[ddeaton]

Depending on available materials, Ian Oughtred's faering designs might work, as they can be built from either marine ply or solid wood, and row really well.

Sailing them is trickier, and they wouldn't be as burdensome as wider designs, but they might fit most of your needs.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Woodfish1.jpg
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/gallery?KID=31

This fellow is on this forum and others, and has a Ness Yawl and similar boat which are cruised in your area -

http://www.slaughterhousegallery.com/Ness%20Yawl/Images/KS9thumb.jpg

http://www.slaughterhousegallery.com/Ness%20Yawl/NYHome.htm

What about the Woodfish? I see this is the solid wood version of the Elf which is ply. The website states it is a redrawn version of the Elf. I dont see plans for sale for this version. I guess this would be the lofting off the Elf plans?

[Thorne]

The top boat is the Woodfish. Here's another photo of the same boat -
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Woodfish4.jpg


Don't know about the availability of the plans, but it sure sounds like it meets Michael's re-stated needs (several posts above). And I'm sure that the suggestion that fewer strakes = easier build is a great one for a first-time builder.

[ddeaton]

I emailed Duckflat to see if they sell the plans for the Woodfish. I kinda like it myself Thorne.

[Michael Beckman]

I'm not really able/willing to spend $200 on plans, but I do like the Woodfish.

[Michael Beckman]

Yeah, theres quite a selection of shipwrights around. I am currently looking at this design (http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=EN&Currency=USD&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=76) with interest.. It has a very pleasing hull shape in my opinion. I'm a bit worried about beaching a boat with such a large keel though. I suppose it could be done easily enough around here, as long as care was taken to lay over easily. As far as build time goes.. I will most likely be starting construction in December or January and then be trying to finish by the end of May. I will be working on the boat 3-4 days a week, though I'm not sure how much of that will be guided. I picked up the Dory Book at the library earlier, and am looking at a few of the smaller boats in that also. I am still very attached to the idea of a traditional Scandinavian boat, as my heritage is primarily from there, and also because there are hardly any boats of that style around Port Townsend.

[Wiley Baggins]

I don’t want to discourage you, but your reach may be exceeding your grasp. You are unable and/or unwilling to part with $200 for plans and your lumber may come from a tree you intend to fell yourself. Add to that, you are going to be able to work on the boat perhaps 3-4 days a week for, at most, six months. I assume this will be while fulfilling other school requirements. You and your advisors know better than I what your capabilities and resources are and the time it will take you to achieve your goals. Still, I think you may be being a bit too ambitious.

Curiously, the boat you are now considering from the Swedish site is what I would have suggested had you not specified a pram in your first post. Now, however, I am going to put forward another boat I also rejected in my first post. The link below is to a simple, plywood punt. It’s designed strictly as a rowing craft. With the aid of your advisors, you might consider converting the boat to traditional construction with lapped sides. You should be able to draw inspiration for a sailing rig from the punt in link 1a provided above. The second link is to a smaller boat, which is not at all what you want. However, the boat is derived from a larger traditional boat (Chapman Ekstock), with more rocker, which is also illustrated. You might want more rocker for sailing and to match the previously mentioned sailing punt.

If you take this route, you should end up with a practical, handsome craft that meets most, if not all of your requirements, and is completed on time and within your budget. That’s not a bad thing, by any measure.



Good luck.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~hvartial/rpunt/rpunt.htm

http://www.gsahv.pp.fi/dinghy3/ekstock.htm

[Michael Beckman]

At this point, everything is speculation. I'll be meeting with someone later this week to discuss plans and whatnot. I'm just trying to amass a good selection of possibilities.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi Mike
have you checked John Gardner's "The Dory Book" out of your local library yet? it would really be a shame to meet with your advisors without studying this book first, there are many (more than 20? free plans with offsets and building instructions!) traditional lapstrake American working craft in the volume, boats that evolved over 300 yrs. on the East coast to be quick + cheap to build, sturdy, seaworthy and carry a great load. When the dory was introduced to regions of southern scandanavia in the early 1900's the localy built Fareing types in those areas became nearly extinct, these really are incredible boats.
I think your goals are very attainable even with the time and money constraints you mention... mabey forget the tree, just buy the rough cut lumber from a local sawmill at a good rate.
happy building! should be a wonderfull and memorable project,
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Michael Beckman]

I have The Dory Book, and am looking at the 12' banks dory as a possibility. I prefer the aesthetics of the faerings, but a dory sounds more practical.

[boatrat]

Michael, I'm with you all the way on the Norse Pram. Google up North House in Grand Marais MN. I shared in building two of
them there as part of their boat building course programs, and then went home and made another. Easy build by "rack of eye" and seaworthy on parts of Lake Superior and of course, the Fiords in the old country. Known as the Norse wheelbarrow she rows and handles well and I've heard but not experienced that the same is true under sail. My avatar is a 16' cargo pram fitted for sail. Some pics on the web site and if I can work out how, I'll try to post others. Unabashed Norse Pram fan, I need to emphasize that these are workboats not dinks. I would shoot for 14'-16'. Good hunting.

[Steve Paskey]

Yeah, theres quite a selection of shipwrights around. I am currently looking at this design (http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=EN&Currency=USD&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=76) with interest.. It has a very pleasing hull shape in my opinion. I'm a bit worried about beaching a boat with such a large keel though.

Michael, now you've got me confused. You said yesterday that you wanted an emphasis on rowing, but the latest design you've posted is relatively beamy (1.5m, 60") and has a deep keel ... she's certainly a pleasing design, but *far* from the best shape for rowing.

Before you go further, you really should get clear on how often and how far you want to row ... it makes a huge difference as to which designs would be suitable.

[Michael Beckman]

I have a different view on rowing than most.. I typically row longboats, which are quite heavy, and cruise at about 2 knots. Max speed is maybe 4-5. I simply want a very seaworthy boat, that can row at a decent pace by my slow standards. Distances could vary from back and forth along the waterfront, to 15 miles or so(that one might be a couple days>__>)

[LLaver]

Hi Michael,

I am currently building a faering to Iain Oughtreds design "Elf". One of the nice things about the build is it is actually quite quick as there is only three planks per side which makes the planking go by very fast and the boat will be turned before you know it. The internal fitout takes a bit longer but I think if you are experienced with wood working and have some instruction from experienced help you should be able to get this boat done within your allotted time frame.
What ever you choose, go with a design that really grabs you, that way you will be motivated to work hard on it and get it done in time.

cheers

Lee

[boatrat]

15' Norse pram splashed this summer on the St Croix at Hudson, WI
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/368/dsc01709hv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/368/dsc01709hv7.e5b5803373.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=514&i=dsc01709hv7.jpg)

[Michael Beckman]

I've decided to order these plans: http://www.batritningar.se/default.aspx?Language=EN&Currency=USD&Page=BoatplansDetails&Id=76

I will be building it out of local cedar, at around the cost of running the mill. $40. Probably building it without powertools, and going for an oil finish. This boat is going to be totally awesome looking. I will probably start a blog or something similar to keep track of building progress, I'll post that here when I start doing worthwhile stuff.

[kenjamin]

Hey Michael, Even if you could build that boat cheaply, you still have to figure the cost of moving that heavy thing when your done. Have you priced Toyota Tundras lately? Do yourself a favor and look at John Welsford's Walkabout. It has a place to lay down and take a nap, comes with plans for a custom tent, and at 200 lbs. – so much easier to tow and row.

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/Walkabout.gif

[Ron Paro]

Micheal,

Have you seen the thread in the Building/Repair section:
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=7554

This is a great running account of a fellow named Gabe and his dad building the Blekingseka in Minnesota.

Good stuff! - Ron

[Michael Beckman]

One issue I just thought of is that this boat is typically built entirely of oak. However, because I'm using local woods I will have cedar, and whatever I buy for obscene costs. I think it should still have plenty of strength though.

[Keith Wilson]

One point - the traditional faerings, as well as Iain Oughtered's modern versions of them, used VERY wide boards - even wider than they look, because they're not anywhere near straight, particularly the garboard. That's fine if you use plywood sheets, but for traditional construction, it takes an awfully big tree, and there's a risk of the planks splitting if you keep it on a trailer. Something with more planks per side might be easier with the materials you have, although more work to build. Just a thought.

[Daniel Noyes]

Thats a good point about board width kieth, The planks on a cal yawl have a huge amount of bow to them, feet of it! Over the ages the dory hull evolved to make very efficient use of plank width, basically lay on a straight board and mabey taper the ends abit, and thats your plank. If you have a 9" wide board you can pretty much put a 9" plank on the hull, where if the plank had to be cut to a bowed shape you might end up with a 3" wide plank (or worse) from a 9" board.
Also I noticed in the other thread that the planks are steamed to shape, oak will take steam very differently (better) than cedar.
(a dory hull is easily planked with cedar, no steam necessary,
take a second look at that gunning dory (:
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Michael,
The boat you have ordered plans for looks quite beautiful, but it does not exactly look like an ideal beach boat with that keel configuration. You will almost surely be scarfing planks, even then using rather wide stock. Of course you have fewer planks, wide planks. It will be a bit more of a challenge to find lumber vs plywood planking stock. It is certanly possible to acquire 12" wide Red Cedar, I am not sure even that would be wide enough. Good things can be said about overhangs (raking stem and stern, my 13 and 16 also have a lot of overhang). Besides practical considerations such as dryness, sometimes that is just the look we want. It is also true that overhangs reduce LWL lengh relative to overall lengh and therefore hull speed. Another thought, if this boat you have plans for was built in oak and you are building in cedar you'll really have to load up to bring her down on her intended lines. This kind of boat may in fact have traveled with balast when lightly loaded in addtion to being built with much heavier oak. You're window of construction time is 'middling to modest. Good luck whatever you choose - I am a big fan of the beach cruising concept.
Eric Hvalsoe

[ddeaton]

The top boat is the Woodfish. Here's another photo of the same boat -
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Woodfish4.jpg


Don't know about the availability of the plans, but it sure sounds like it meets Michael's re-stated needs (several posts above). And I'm sure that the suggestion that fewer strakes = easier build is a great one for a first-time builder.

Got an email back from Duckflat. The Woodfish plans are available.:)