Hey John B

[Hwyl]

Boy am I tempted

http://www.certifiedsales.com/photos/YS070177_01.jpg

[John B]

I saw that in another thread somewhere?here, SA? where is the boat Gareth?
built where?

Funny , I was just looking at the CC entry list and spotted a 46 or 48 ft Holland from a similar vintage we'll be racing against. Lots of them here obviously.

[Hwyl]

I saw it on SA. It was originally called Spritzer, part of the NZ Admirals cup in 1981. Then it was owned by Shorty Trimmingham of Bermuda and called "Flirt of Paget" that's when I knew it.

Apparently hit the bricks and had a damaged keel, it was repaired shoddily.

No reserve auction. It's in Rhode Island about 2.5 hours drive for me.

[John B]

amazing its still bright! That boat would be grey if was down here. Do you know who built it?( Built in NZ?)

Oh I remember the thread now, ' most beautiful boats'? or' good old IOR boats' something like that.

[Hwyl]

Sorry, I don't. She is NZ built though.
Just looked up the 81 Admirals cup and it was Swuzzlebubble, Inca and Wee Willy Winkie, for the Kiwis and Flirt of Paget was in the BM team, so there's something askew in the facts.

[John B]

She looks old for 81 to my eye, could she be an earlier boat .. say 77 or so. I looked up my earliest register( 1985) and there's no Spritzer or Flirt ( holland)

I wonder if its an Imp.

[John B]

Spritzer might be a Brin Wilson boats boat. which would mean pretty well as good as you can get.

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/7/7/7/4/1777445_17.jpg?1190063404000

and those are diagonals behind the ribs and they're the right colour for kauri. That many ribs implies 2 skins rather than 3 or 4 , and I suppose that would be in keeping with a light racing build.Come to think of it, my fathers old boat is a Wilson from 1977/78 and its 2 skins.

[John B]

She's confirmed as Spritzer by someone I trust and who would know, built by Richard Wilson of Brin Wilson boats to a high standard.I'd say she is a fine boat built of the best of materials by the best of boatbuilders.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

John, it looks like a double diagonal hull with a longitudinal outer layer. Did they really build a two skin hull with outer longitudinal planks?
I have just sold a similar boat, a cold moulded Cole Nantucket. It looks like the keel plank has gone on this one, which would be a difficult repair in a cold moulded hull. It would probably mean routing out all the layers to get to the keel.
Other negatives include a Bukh and a V drive.

[John B]

I don't know Paul, I'm surmising that, maybe she's 3 skins. Being a glued hull, I'd expect that the keel would need to be dropped but that the damage would be eminently repairable.

[John B]

Sorry, I don't. She is NZ built though.
Just looked up the 81 Admirals cup and it was Swuzzlebubble, Inca and Wee Willy Winkie, for the Kiwis and Flirt of Paget was in the BM team, so there's something askew in the facts.


another comment.....
" she failed to make the NZ team"

[bamamick]

Pretty common thing with Admiral's Cup teams, eh? Ah, those were the days. From looking at Gareth's photo I can just imagine a teeny, tiny cockpit with winches sticking up in places sure to find knees and elbows, and big ol' headsails being changed out in the middle of the night. You can undoubtedly throw a blooper in there as well, heaven forbid!

I sailed on some good 1/2 and 3/4 tonners and I hated IOR boats. The 60'er that I sailed on was lots better in the way of comfort, but she was pretty damn scary with all of that rocking and rolling. Gareth, if you want a beautiful project, go take a look at that 30 square in San Diego. I could come up and sail with you on her. I'd probably get thrown off of that IOR boat into the Gulf of Maine! :)

Mickey Lake

[John B]

There's more pictures Mickey. The cockpit, its not sooo bad:D.

So,( ex the Bloomsbury history of the Admirals cup), Spritzer failed to make the NZ team, she was a Holland of the same hull design as Swuzzlebubble but masthead and she became a BM entry under Shorty Trimmingham as Flirt of Paget. In one of the races she lost her rig along with Dussleboot.
Swuzzlebubble is described as being an update on the Regardless hull.

So there's the anomaly explained Gareth.:D

oh, and that other Holland I mentioned we'll be racing.. 46 or 48 ft .., there's mention of a boat the same name, Woolly Jumper as an Irish entry of the same series but only 42 ft. I'm sure there will only be one Holland called Woolly jumper so maybe she's been extended or had a big scoop added or something. Or I've estimated wrong.

[The Bigfella]

I can't imagine the wife sitting in that cockpit sipping champers. What $ to deliver her to Sydney eh? You reckon you'd sleep well with that crack there?

[Hwyl]

Thanks for all your research John, I did think about putting an offer on this boat, buying a boat is never a pragmatic decision. I admired her when she was Flirt and the thought of being able to own her excited me.

Paul, thanks for your posts, you'd noticed things I had not.

Mickey, thanks for just suggesting a metre boat and not insisting I'd be better off in a Dragon

(you're not forgiven for Dun Loaghaire BTW)

Ian, I think that your wife would make the accommodations to drink champagne with you wherever. You lost the plot when you gave up your Tornado (the Tornado could do with a good advocat right now)

[Don Z.]

Is there not something hugely oxymoronic in the term "Good IOR Boats"?

[Hwyl]

Is there not something hugely oxymoronic in the term "Good IOR Boats"?
I've certainly had some fun in them.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Let us show due respect to Olin Stephens, whose Rule it was (and in the words of another designer, Maurice Griffiths "any designer is allowed one mistake!")

I reckon it is perfectly possible to turn an earlier IOR boat into a docile enough cruiser, and they represent good value.

[Don Z.]

I've certainly had some fun in them.

I've had a lot of fun in places, doing things most others would consider "not sane".

As a completely random example, there was this one time, in this 1973 Chevy Vega that...

No, never mind.

I wish I still had the magazine, or wherever it was I saw in the early 1990s... in reply to a comment that the Berlin Wall was down "Now if only we can get rid of the IOR".

[Paul Fitzgerald]

My old boat was a Peter Cole 1978 half tonner, never caused a moment's concern with her handling. Went to windward like a rocket, stable and fast downwind, often topped 10 knots downwind.
Some old IOR boats were hopeless downwind, but not all. Peter Cole had one of these built for himself, so I guess he was motivated to design a good boat as well as a fast boat.

[John B]

It doesn't look too distorted as far as IOR boats go. a bit of a bustle , thats about it. Pretty fair really.

It was Richard Wilsons own boat incidentally.I hope someone realises what it is. In a lot of ways its much easier to deal with and restore a good quality boat with damage than an older or poorer quality unit with hidden 'feature's.

Evidentally it is from the Regardless hull which was itself an update of the Imp hull.

[John B]

Oh, and one more little fact. One of the Wilsons ( may have been Richard?)as in Brin Wilson Boats , was the man who was chosen to manage and control the repair of this cold moulded boat last year.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p043116ede4731610037edb6b7ec27146/eed4b4d4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid206/p761e2220520ae749e11a709c77f16800/eed4b4c3.jpg

[bamamick]

The simple matter is that I have figured that if you wanted a Dragon then you'd have a Dragon. Simple as that. My mission is to communicate what's out there. I am not a salesman (thank goodness, because I would have starved to death a long time ago).

In an interesting aside (at least to me), I have a guy in the Rochester area who is apparently very serious about doing a European campaign with a modern boat and basing it out of the RYC. I also got a call last week from a gentleman in Youngstown, NY who asked me to help himself and several others get a fleet going. If this comes to pass it would pretty much put us all over the Great Lakes region where the class has such deep roots and of course would be a huge shot in the arm. My dream has always been for me to pull into the parking lot at the Edgewater YC in Cleveland and be the third or fourth or tenth in line for the lift. I really do believe that it'll happen. I also got word last night from a new owner in Boston. Unfortunately for me my home computer has now been in the shop for seven days and I probably have a couple hundred e-mails to catch up with as soon as it gets back.

Sorry for the hijack.

Mickey Lake