Splash Rails - how about 'em?

[Bill McBee]

Hello to eveyone on the WoodenBoat Forum. New recruit here. Am working on restoring a 1958 (my best determination) outboard Dunphy 16' with a lot of promise.

She's mahogany-layered ply lapstraked over steam-bent oak ribs. Someone's evidently re-bottomed her planing hull and cut, rather than replaced, the bottom portion of the ribs - probably due to rot. To avoid the rib replacement, they've added a (quite well-laid) system of stringers from the transom to the forefoot. However, I can see an empty fastener hole in the ribs lying from the transom to about the steering wheel - at about the waterline. Since there are no splash rails affixed on the outside of the hull, I imagine they were taken off and never replaced. The holes were filled somewhat and the hull repainted with a horrendous high gloss paint.

As I ponder the best way to remove this paint on the hull's exterior, I also ponder just how hard it might be to cut and fit splash rails - if they're considered necessary at all. I realize hard turns might significantly wet rear-riding passengers without them - just not sure how wet that might be.

Any thoughts on this splash rail running from the transom up to about the driver's seat area of the hull?

Would also appreciate any advice on what might remove hull paint the best.

Thanks,
Bill

[Paul Morris]

Hi Bill and welcom to the Forum.
I'm trying to tie things together here as I've had and restored Dunphys, and have studied the Company some.
In 1958 Dunphy introduced their first lapstrake models (2) the 15 foot Surf Rider and the 16 foot Whitecapper. By 1961 they had 14 models of lapstrake hulls, 14' thru 19'.
The Dunphy boats I've had were the hot molded hulls between 1946 and 1958. Good tough little boats. Kind of "poundy" in a chop though.
Looking at old pix of Dunphy lapstrake models in the the Bob Speltz "Real Runabouts IV" book, it looks like spray rails were applied from about the aft most point of the side windshield aft to the transom. They were attached to the same strake for the entire length.
Generally, lapstrake boats are quite dry running. In some cases, the spray rail adds an element of stiffening to the back half of some hull designs.
In 1963, Dunphy succumbed to poor economic times, the new fiberglass competition and closed the doors after 110 years of very good small boat building.
On removing paint and varnish, I've had quite good luck with a Milwaukee hot air heat gun and good sharp triangular scrapers. Will be doing some of this tomorrow in fact.
Good Luck

[Bill McBee]

Thank you Paul. Your knowledge of Dunphy's is quite good. This is, by best reckoning, a Whitecapper. Whoever cut out the lower sections of the ribs and replaced with the system of hull-stiffening stringers did her a favor. However, it raised the level of the boat's floor about one full width of a lapstrake. When I put it all back together, I intend to save the Magic Carpet front seat (the rubber bushings are all quite new-like and the seat actually 'gives' as designed and advertised) but with some lowering to get the driver's legs and knees under the original wheel.

Some previous owner has cut the port fwd half of the windshield in half, making a walk-thru windshield on the port side. The new center section folds back to port over the outside half. Its actually quite ingenious - permitting easy stepping out onto the bow section.

The last thing the previous owner did was lay 2" mahogany strips over the entire deck. With the white caulking replaced and the stripping resanded and varnished, it will look very good.

I know the Dunphy will not be fully restored to original, but she will be in first-rate shape and worthy.

I also obtained much information from Fred Pospeschil's CD-rom. He is the virtual source for Dunphy information, IMHO. Check out his web page and order the CD if you haven't already at

webpages.charter.net/fred.pospeschil

Fred lives in Two Rivers WI and is a fine fellow. In fact, were it not for restore photos there of a 1961 Wayfarer, I'd have NO idea how to remount the front seating and boxes.

Many thanks too for the heat gun suggestion.

Bill

[Wild Wassa]

Consider getting a heat gun that gives the temperature readings as a digital display, if the brand recommended doesn't give digital readings. Going digital allows accurate repeatable temperatures. I like to know that 350C doesn't scorch mahogany under varnish when 360C can at 12 seconds.

Take time to find and calibrate the best temperature for the paint removal (which depends on the age of the paint not just the paint base or the foundation coats). Spending time calibrating the best temperature to time for paint removal is the key to stripping paint efficiently.

When I'm stripping paint I use a tungsten carbide scraper with heat (and with chemicals) and there is no mucking around when using a sharp scraper. Change/rotate the blade often. The extra few bucks spent on using sharp blades will pay for themselves in good time savings and certainly relieves the burden of scraping by a good deal ... and it reduces sanding after scraping and helps with the sweating-out of paint residues even faster than normal after the initial sanding.

If you haven't spent a lot of time scraping paint? ... removing paint is a pulling process not a pushing process. Always pull the blade towards you.

Warren.

[Bill McBee]

Warren - many thanks for your detailed answer. I take it that your reference to 350C. and 360C. is accurate for mahogany ply - or is that a frame of reference?

The paint is obviously recent; probably hastily applied judging by the dripping runs. It appears to be a boat bottom paint - probably a yacht-type. It is very glossy.

I'd considered whether or not to use some heavy sandpaper on a block and cut into it heavily and just paint over it, sanding between coats. The additional seal on the wood would seem good - but there seems to be two heavy coats on there now - plus a what may be a primer or the original seafoam green.

Would you still recommend stripping?

[Eric D]

is the boat fair?
is there any rot?
how are the fastners?

Often stripping and complete repaint is the best way to go when you are trying to "start anew" with a boat. That way you have really looked at the condition of the wood, the fastners and all that.

If you are just trying to "get out there" then a simpler method of hit the high spots and giver a go is acceptable, but often just a bandaid.

Wassa does some PRIMO PRIMO work......take that into consideration.....

[Wild Wassa]

"I take it that your reference to 350C. and 360C. is accurate for mahogany ply - or is that a frame of reference?"

Bill, it was just an example of the way a digital readout works and how a digital gun can be relied on to set a repeatable standard using the minimum exposure to heat. Being aware of the time that the timber is exposed to the heat under the paint is just as critical. Don't rely on my figure at all, for your Magogany ply. You will need to calibrate your own system. The figures were just those that I remembered from my last Mahogany paint job.

I will go and do a test on what I'm working on at the moment, which is removing varnish over epoxy on a Mahogany tiller and I'll post what I find. Just to give a more accurate starting point. The temperatures will tend to be very similar to what you are doing ... if you go this route and if our paint bases are similar. I'm stripping some acrylic paint (Latex) and some oil based stuff.

"Would you still recommend stripping?"

I can usually talk the owners into using the wood on their boats as a feature, stripping is essential if I do talk them into it.

I also/always strip the surfaces back to wood or back to the glass before painting. Top coats fail because the primers fail. Primers tend to be notorious for failure often missleading the painter into thinking that it was primarily the topcoat that failed because of degredation from UV. It tends to be a combination of both types of failures.

I'm a boat painter. I can't guarantee the work unless I start from uniform foundation coats. Also it allows me to be confident that all the paint layers will age together uniformly adding to the longevity of the paint job.

If you feel the foundation coats are still sound you can simplify the job by giving the paint a good clean with acetone and then uniformly sanding with an appropriate grade of paper which would tend to be about #100 -120 grit initially through to 180-220 grit and wipe down with acetone again or use Prepsole.

One of the 'real issues' that I have with many repairs, is contamination from silicon or wax products that been used by the owners. Stripping the paint means that if there was silicon or waxes used on the boat then they have been removed.

I'll post some progress shots of what I'm stripping and restoring at the moment. I'll post them a bit later in the day ... a bit of photography is required.

My post was following Paul M's advice, not conflicting with his advice.

Eric, Cheers to you, you are too kind. Somedays I even wonder if I know anything about applying paint ... somedays.

Warren.

[Paul Morris]

Bill, do a little test if you haven't already, carefully scrape and sand a small area down to the primer then carefully sand or scrape through that looking for a brown paper like surface on the plywood. If it is there, as it was on many boats of this period and type, try not to destroy it in the stripping process - this is tricky if it is there. If so, the plywood used was MDO - medium density overlay plywood.
For lapstrake built boats of this period this product provided the builders with a huge labor saving in fairing and surface prep as this was a primer ready surface. They would fill the screw/bolt holes with a plaster like putty, and spray a really heavy primer coat. They would let that harden then do a detail sanding on that. Then the finish coats.
I don't know for sure if Dunphy used this product, but if they did, it very well could be a good stable surface on which to rebuild your finish.

[Wild Wassa]

A tiller in epoxy and varnish that I just stripped.

Bill, the temperature that I gave you, of 360C at 12 seconds heating was just perfect and a good starting point, if you are using heat. It is a good starting temperature for oil based paints and varnish over epoxy or varnish on wood.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p6a8db0f8077871fd4e101e393a0af739/e7886878.jpg


With the 360C temp for 12 seconds, with the gun held only a few centremetres off the timber, there is no way that that temp will damage the Mahogany ply glues or scorch the timber. In the photo below, that 360C temperature for 12 seconds just started to bring bubbles up. This level of heating and lifting is perfect for stripping varnish over epoxy.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p018002e714c92821c29dfd1544df357e/e7886870.jpg


If you don't go to heat, heat is fast to strip with, there are other stripping aids that make life easy and fit into a drill or in the case of the polyfan ... onto the grinder. If I find that there is still paint in the grain of the timber, a light coat of Poly-Strippa applied for a few minutes then wire brushed off, will clean the timber to 100%.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/ped7e40fa6c94fae2cde16636e5b532cf/e788686b.jpg


If you are trying to bring the wood back to life after it has been stained by water, products like Oxalic Acid or Phosphoric Acid ('Rust-Off' if things are really desperate) will bleach the timber well .... and the timber can be again varnished or clear coated as a feature.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p81bcc741918cbca79b3f273598e60226/e788685f.jpg


Above is the tungsten carbide blade that I strip nearly all paint off with. I like it because it also slightly dresses the timber at the same time as it removes the paint.

Good luck Mate.

Warren.

[Bill McBee]

Paul Eric and Warren:

Wow! They should rename this the Woodenboat University! You guys are the best. And the information is most helpful.

The hull paint that presently resides on her is most likely a high-quality marine gloss finish. I suspect this because the previous owners maintained that 'a lot of work had been done recently by a reputable boat shop'.

From the planing hull repair that has been done, and from the exact size, placement, and bracing, of the new stringers in the bilge area, I would suspect it was in fact a quality boat repair facility.

However, I have removed a small area of paint which reveals three colors - a light blue, a very white, and the glossy brick red currently abundantly applied (there are quite a few drip runs - indicating the boat likely was not turned over for the planing hull repairs or the painting). I say this to say that it appears to me the hull is now solid and fair. The paint, though recent, appears quite new.

While I'm in no hurry to get her in the water, I am going through her for a lot of mostly-cosmetic repairs: sand, stain and varnishing her insides; repair and replacement of the white caulk in her 2" mahogany deck planking; repainting the bilge area; re-flooring with marine-grade plywood, and so forth.

But I do like the idea of stripping her to the MDO (which I agree I believe Dunphy used) although it could be very tricky not to get that top layer of veneering.

The screws, mounted in pairs below the waterline, are all in place. The nuts are secure on each and there is no wiggle or movement in any of them. The caulking, visible in the bilge along either edge of the planing hull where it meets the keel, seems sound from the transom forward. The transom seems solid as a rock, and particularly clean & tight where the strakes meet the transom. Obviously, I can't see the wood beneath the hull paint but from examining the inside of each lapstrake, they all appear not to have cracks in them nor signs of dry rot, etc.

I guess, all things considered, I could get by with cleaning the hull paint as Warren suggests, sanding it a couple of times with a block sander going between the grades he suggested, and then priming, painting, sanding, painting a couple of new coats.

Call me kooky if you will but I am curious to see the wood below the existing paint! While I doubt I'd want to leave the MDO as a natural finish, it would be good to look at the seals between the strakes, look at the boards, fastener holes, etc.

I'll have to sleep on it a few nights. But your information is invaluable. I sincerely appreciate it. This is a first - and somewhat of a dream for me - to, even in some way, preserve a wood boat. Just to put her in the water, run to some great fishing holes, and then re-trailer her without taking on water, would be a great thrill for me.

Oh - in the best spirit of the Thread - I've assumed that the absence of a splash rail is not a big issue.

Bill

ps - Warren - if you'd be so kind - I certainly enjoyed the photos - worth thousands of words! Thanks for the extra effort you went to in order to put those up there.


Where would I upload some photos of her so that I can give a URL address for this button that will let me post photos??

[Wild Wassa]

Bill, unless you have an address to a direct link, that links to your own album, you will need to download your photos to a 3rd party. To a library like Photobucket or Shutterfly, to display them here.

If you do a 'search' for the recent posts about downloading images to the Forum, which you will find in 'The Bilge' you will find plenty of info on how to do it, using the different photo libraries.

I'm still downloading to and using the now supposedly defunct site called 'Image Station.' Until Sony kicks me off Image Station, I'll continue linking to it.

Warren.