cartop sailing dinghy choice

[markja]

I have been trying to decide which boat to build. I need to be able to cartop it myself so it should weigh no more than about 75-80 lbs, I think. I would like to mostly sail it, possibly even get it to plane. So after much searching browsing and lurking, I have come up with two choices, Ian Oughtred's Acorn 10 or B and B Yacht Design's Spindrift 10.

I know they don't have much in common besides the length, but I sure like the look of the Acorn and I think the sailing performance of the Spindrift sounds intriguing.

Anyone out there have experience sailing either of these designs?

[JimD]

Forgive me for not being able to answer your question but tossing in my two cents worth anyway, but twer it me I'd feel better about manhandling the spindrift onto the top of a vehicle.

[Tom Lathrop]

I have been trying to decide which boat to build. I need to be able to cartop it myself so it should weigh no more than about 75-80 lbs, I think. I would like to mostly sail it, possibly even get it to plane. So after much searching browsing and lurking, I have come up with two choices, Ian Oughtred's Acorn 10 or B and B Yacht Design's Spindrift 10.

I know they don't have much in common besides the length, but I sure like the look of the Acorn and I think the sailing performance of the Spindrift sounds intriguing.

Anyone out there have experience sailing either of these designs?

You summed these boats up well. Most will probably find Oughtred's Acorn the better looking boat and the B&B Spindrift is definitely the higher performer. Have not sailed the Acorn but have sailed similar boats. I have sailed and raced the Spindrift dinghy which is very capable of planing an adult and looks real good too. I also carried my Spindrift on cartop.

[John Turpin]

I built a different B & B dinghy, the Two Paw 8, but I can confirm that the B & B plan sets are excellent. There is a strong B & B builders' forum also. Lastly, if you choose the nesting Spindrift, you could tote it around in two (lighter) pieces. My $.02.

[ahp]

My two cents worth: When I was much younger it took two of us to put a 70 to 80 pound canoe on top of car. Maybe you have a better method than simple lifting. What is wrong with a very light trailer?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

You have a realistic view of the weight limits for cartopping but, I don't know if you are familiar with how hard it is to build to a minimum weight with S&G. Most S&G builders can't overcome the desire to make the boat "better" which always makes the weight go up. You have to stifle your creative urges and measure everything you do against how it effects weight. If you have the option of building an ultralight version of the boat you will have a much better chance of hitting the minimum.
The only designer I have heard address ultralight weight issues is Jacques Mertens. He says his small row/sail designs can survive being built with 6mm and 4mm plywood if it's BS1088. He never addressed the motor issue but I would think a gas motor is out with a transom only ¼" thick.
My own adventure into the cartopper ranks was the 8' pram in my avatar. I started weighing the components as soon as they were cut out. Since I wasn't using okuome the weight got out of hand from the start so I switched some 3/8" components to ¼" stuff. My target weight was 60 lb. and I missed it by 4 lb. This hull has a lot of internal structure and once constructed it's pretty obvious the whole thing could have been built from ¼" and beat the target weight handily.
Another thing that has too be controlled is epoxy. It's heavier than water and can balloon weight without notice. Fillets have to be kept to a minimum, glass wetted with no more than necessary and wood parts should fit nicely so there is no need to fill gaps with extra epoxy putty.
I'm not familiar with B&B designs but, being old school, I'm distrustful that a hull can perform well with motor, sail and oar. Most of the dinghy sailers I am familiar with are essentially row boats with a sail option. Once in a while one comes out that is more performant than was expected.

[Ed Armstrong]

I believe that the plans for the Acorn dinghy (renamed the Puffin in Ian's latest catalog, IIRC), say that it can be built of 4mm, 5mm or 6mm marine ply. 5mm is recommended, but you can go 4mm to save weight. I built mine with 6mm, because it was readily available, and while I have "cartopped" it over the bed of my pickup, it still took two of us to get it up there, even with the lifting rig that I built. I've now built a ramp and hand cart to roll it up into the bed, which I can do using a block and tackle attached to the front of the bed. With a 4mm plywood boat and a lifting rig similar to the one shown on this page (scroll about halfway down) http://amateurboatbuilding.com/ProjectJustRight/Chap17.htm, you might be able to cartop it by yourself.

The Acorn is a great little boat to row, but then I'm a rowing novice, so cannot make a great comparison. The sailing rig will be done by springtime.

Ed

[rbgarr]

IIRC in a recent issue of WB there are a few pictures of Sam Manning's rig for loading a boat onto a truck/cartop. Looks simple enough.

[Ed Armstrong]

There were photographs of Sam Manning's rig in Woodenboat's Small Boats 2008 publication. It's pretty similar to the contraption that I built (and which differs from that shown on the website listed above as the "Rolon Car Topper", only in that I angled the angled supports together into a hinged "V", so that the whole thing could be collapsed easily).

Ed

[markja]

Thanks for all the responses. They are all helpful and worth at least 2 cents each.

I don't want to put the boat on a trailer because one of my favorite lakes only allows cartop boats. I have been staring at the Acorn plans for months but can't commit. I think the higher performance of the Spindrift is going to win out for me.

Maybe I'll have to build 'em both.

I built a Wee Lassie strip plank canoe a couple years ago and just put together a sailing rig for that. no capsizes so far. it makes me want something faster, though.

Mark

[Thorne]

Sounds like the Spindrift is the way to go.

Never heard of only allowing cartop boats -- that's a new one! You often encounter places with no launch ramps, where you have to carry or trolly boats to the water, but I've never heard of places banning trailers altogether.

If in fact the issue is that trailer **launching** is not allowed (or possible), you can still use a trailer to transport the boat and then a dolly to launch. Having done repairs on a boat that was dropped onto concrete, I'm a bit more sensitive about the difference between theory and reality in hoisting wooden boats onto racks under windy conditions.

[openboater]

We have numerous lakes near me where the State put posts in the launch ramps to make them carry only. After complaints of the lake residents about too big and too fast trailer boats. Ramps are kept by Dept of Enviromantal Conservation for fishing. Water skiers and Jetski's usually don't fish.

What about a sailing canoe ? easier to cartop due to decreased beam compared to dinghy.

[Woxbox]

I think longer boats, if weight is equal, are easier to cartop because you can flip them over on the ground, get the bow up on the after rack, and then pick up the stern and roll her up and on. You never have to lift the full weight of the boat.
The Whisp (check my avatar) isn't a bad candidate if built light. 16 feet or so long, but not very beamy and can be kept under 90 pounds.
The biggest issue I have with cartopping is all the extra gear that has to come out of the boat and get packed before the hull is ready to lift up. With a pickup truck, not really a problem, but it can be a real pile of stuff to deal with in a smaller vehicle.

[markja]

Here is a small picture of the canoe I have now. It is a Wee Lassie with 29 sf spirit polytarp sail. I can sail with almost no wind and in a 5 knot breeze, it gets real exciting. The weight of the mast and sail will actually capsize the boat at the dock unless I am sitting in it.

Haven't figured out yet what to do in a capsize...

The canoe is great to cartop, but I would like a bit more room and stability and be able to go fast in a good breeze and have an occasional passenger.

282

and besides, half the fun for me in having a boat is planning to build the next one.

MARK

[openboater]

markja, You gotta' get a bigger boat .........

[Steve Lansdowne]

I car-top (actually, truck-top) my 75 lb. Whisp (which is likely not the boat you want) and can do get it up there and back down solo by using a roller at the rear of the truck, though it isn't exactly easy. You only need to lift half of the weight of the boat at any one time, as the other end is on the ground or resting on the rack.

[markja]

Have heard about the Whisp and love the looks of the Acorn (Puffin) but today I ordered plans for the Spindrift, so the beginning of another boat building project is underway. I like the "Cartopper" idea to load the boat. Probably get more of the "Did you make that yourself?" etc. comments.

i suppose this question should move to the building forum but anyway, what might be the differences between using 6mm plywood vs. 4mm plywood covered with 6 oz. cloth/epoxy on a boat like this?

MARK

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Have heard about the Whisp and love the looks of the Acorn (Puffin) but today I ordered plans for the Spindrift, so the beginning of another boat building project is underway. I like the "Cartopper" idea to load the boat. Probably get more of the "Did you make that yourself?" etc. comments.

I suppose this question should move to the building forum but anyway, what might be the differences between using 6mm plywood vs. 4mm plywood covered with 6 oz. cloth/epoxy on a boat like this?

MARK

Repeat after me; "For light weight, more wood, less epoxy". Epoxy is ~9¼ lb/gal. That's heavier than water. Glass on the exterior needs at least 3 coats of epoxy to fill the weave.

[Pernicious Atavist]

Canoe. A sailing canoe. There are several great s&g designs one can easily build that lend themselves to sailing. They are light and friendly to sail. If there's not enough wind, one can go paddling, thus it's two uses in one boat. See my thread, Time for a new sailing canoe... in this section; it's very long and just chock full of great info from some real experts!
Of course, I'm biased, but still right (as always--yes?)

[JimD]

...what might be the differences between using 6mm plywood vs. 4mm plywood covered with 6 oz. cloth/epoxy on a boat like this?

MARK

What do the plans call for, Mark? If they call for six mil then use 6 mil, not 4. To save weight build with occoume as it is significantly lighter than other plywoods. Like CChuck says, epoxy is heavy. If you intend to sheath in FG then use a very lightweight cloth. Something around 2 oz should be available and will be just fine. Avoiding built in floatation can also save considerable weight.

[markja]

Canoe. A sailing canoe. There are several great s&g designs one can easily build that lend themselves to sailing. They are light and friendly to sail. If there's not enough wind, one can go paddling, thus it's two uses in one boat. See my thread, Time for a new sailing canoe... in this section; it's very long and just chock full of great info from some real experts!
Of course, I'm biased, but still right (as always--yes?)

I have a Wee Lassie canoe and love paddliing and sailing it. I posted a small pic earlier. It is small...don't know if the link below will show the picture...again.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/attachment.php?attachmentid=282

[Thorne]

First - don't attach photos. Most web forums don't allow it, and space
limitations are the main reason why.

Second - Instead of attaching them to a thread, post the pics on the web
somewhere. You have a free website area with any paid ISP's email account,
or use www.picturetrail.com (http://www.picturetrail.com) or other free hosting service. Once posted on
the web, right-click the image to copy the URL (web address). Always test
first by pasting the image URL into the window of a web browser and see if
the image displays.

Remember, the IMAGE URL will end in .jpg, not .htm or html. URLs ending in .htm are the page that the image is at, not the image location itself. If the image URL ends in other code, try deleting everything after the "xxxxxx.jpg" part of the URL to get it to display on web forums.

Third - once posted on the web, try this procedure while logged in to this
Forum:

1. Click the "User CP" link in the browser window in the top left of the
menu bar.
2. Click the "Edit Options" link about 1/4 of the way down the left column.
3. In the "Misc Options" at the bottom of the next page, select "Enhanced
Interface" from the pulldown list.
4. Once this interface has been selected, in any "Reply" window you can
click the "insert photo" icon --> a little yellow square icon with the stamp
in the upper right corner, the mountains in the lower center.
5. Once the little dialog box titled "Please enter the URL of your image"
comes up, paste the URL of the photo in the field.

If unsure of the procedure, test first by pasting the image URL into the
window of a web browser.

[Pernicious Atavist]

Markja--sorry, missed your earlier pics! Okay, a bigger boat, maybe 16', and it's still car-top-able. Or, keep what you have...and add a spinnaker.....wa and hoo!