TW34 v. Coastal passage 34

[Spokaloo]

This is partially for Paladin, but it welcomes some opinion from everyone.

1) Excursions not just coastally, but coasting on a global scale

2) Travel from US to EU on its own hull

3) Moderately comfortable in uncomfortable seas (something that will handle bad days without foundering in the first 15 min)

4) Minimal diesel power

Jacques Mertens over at Bateau has this on the table, still finishing up the drawings, and I think it looks like an able little cruiser.

TW34:

http://www.bateau2.com/images/stories/boatpics/tw34_bow3.jpg

http://www.bateau2.com/images/stories/boatpics/tw34_stern1.jpg

Conversely, Karl Stambaugh at CMD has his own interpretation. I appreciate the cabin design of this one, being a PNW person who will cruise in less than favorable weather.

CMD 30/34:

http://cmdboats.com/images/cp30.gif

So Paladin, why do you err on the side of the TW34?

E

[Flying Orca]

I'm loving your blog. You might want to see my mistakes at http://shilling.blogspot.com, we can commiserate! Cheers, Courtney

[Tar Devil]

You certainly know a quality fish, no question about it!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b65/fighterama2/comp007.jpg

[erster]

Long range passages in a trawler with a raised pilot house is the only way to go. Any designer thats worth their credentials knows that for a 24 hour passagemaker, there are reasons to have the living quarters seperated from the person on watch and navigation area.

[paladin]

...1) If you will look at the beam on the Stambaugh design you will notice how narrow it is, then look at the accommodations.....I have been on the next boat up of that series, you have to turn sideways and squeeze to get below to the forward cabin (on the larger version)...
once below you can't open the door to the head if someone else is standing there, and if you have any kind of engine trouble, you must go forward, remove the companionway ladder, open a very tiny drawerlike door, and try to squeeze through....and I'm not a 5' 120 weakling.....
...2) Check the hp required to get Stambaugh's boat to speed. And it's a lightweight.....no legs....it's almost like they took the 38 or 41 and just downsized everything on paper with software....
...3)Motion in a seaway....Stambaugh's boat has accommodations for maybe 2 people short term, really short term....it has displacement....but I wonder if it is ballasted when they converted to plywood from the original steel. I don't feel that the scantlings are really terrific...did I mention cramped....
...4)No capacity for fuel...or water....or the kind of things like stores/real food for an extended trip....and trying to take a sight from the deck of that thing would be roughly akin to my old Thunderbird in the North Sea in the fall.

Mertens boat....2 1/2 more feet of beam....15000 pounds with half fuel and water 2 people and 1000 pound of stores...BUT! there is room and displacement to double the fuel capacity. The advantage is making some really long legs. Purchase fuel where it's the cheapest for reserves.......using the basic figures for speed etc.....Mertens estimates a 50 hp engine turning less than 75% to reach hull speed giving it an easy range at 7-8 kts of 1000 miles...but look at the fuel burn curves etc....if you hold the rpms to perhaps 6 kts you have an estimated cruise range of1300 plus miles.....and with double the fuel, europe is an easy run....if you have the stamina.....
as my response elsewhere...U.S. to St Johns, St Anthony, Cartwright on the Labrador coast, to Greenland, Kulusuk on the eastern side, to Iceland etc......for the northern route...(I did it once..no more)
The TW34 is everything that Stambaugh's unit isn't. His is a small toy weekender. The 34 footer is a potentially comfortable live aboard cruiser for a couple or a single person, or for a small family short term...(Stambaugh's boat was drawn as a 30 footer....the 34 just means it was stretched) and I like room...to move and stretch....
Personally....I'm tired....if I were to go cruising like that again it would be another sailboat, there's no getting around it....or at least a motorsailor....but for something to snowbird with, running out to the islands and sitting on the hook for extended periods...hitting some small place for stores periodically, the trawler seems a better deal once you figure the cost of the rigging etc....
cost out a suit of sails, rigging wire, winches etc for a heavy displacement 35 foot boat....
then.....a 60 hp beta marine diesel with hydraulic gear and 100 amp alternator and deluxe instrument panel retails for about 16-17K bucks...with 30% off it gets really purty in a hurry...and an inboard of 28-30 hp for your auxiliary would cost in the neighborhood of 6-8k to start with....so just no sails or engine, to upgrade from the small engine is the cost of the small engine plus one self tailing winch...all else stays the same.


Besides...I like Jacques drawings more better......but need a little more separation in the pilothouse and forward sleeping areas so as not to disturb folks by the watchkeeper......

[Spokaloo]

Courtney, thanks for the kind words. Yours definitely has some similarity, though you make less idiotic mistakes than I do. The blog gets a little stagnant when our weather turns (-1F this morning) because I dont have heat, but soon it will warm. That, and Im going to start a new blog when I begin my wife's Oxford rowing shell.

Tar, any time you wanna fish, you let me know! I had just had surgery and was itching to fish. The OK sign is because it was a competition on a forum.

Paladin, I definitely see where being on the boat to visualize it makes a big difference. I love the layout, but it doesn have a bit of a subcompact feel even in the drawings. Jacques hasn't laid the lines out for the interior p&a to the public yet, but I am guessing it will have a Grand Banks feel. I tried to pester him into a more aggressive cabin, something a bit more salmon troller-ish for the incessant rain and frequent ice and fog in Alaska (where I want to cruise). Snow and Ice pile up less when the windshield is tilted forward or at least vertical.

Id love to see how he lays the bunks out specifically. You and I are in the same boat being tall (Im 6'3), so the all-important 6'8" bunk minimum is a factor in my purchasing the plans.

Good thoughts, thanks for sharing them. Not having cruised any vast distances, its nice to get a little insight. Longest Ive done is about 500 miles of Inside Passage/Princess Louisa inlet on the BC coast. 40' semi-planer snot boat.

E

[paladin]

Eric..
When you're sailing solo the smallness sometimes doesn't matter. When below you can sit, turn a bit to reach something, cook, do the charts etc without much movement, then turn and stretch out to sleep......it doesn't work as well when you have company. Then it is important to be able to get up and move. Although my boats kept gettin larger, the inide dimensions didn't change much. The beam on my first boat was about 8 feet, but 27 1/2 feet long, small cockpit....the second, the trimaran, actually had a narrower hull, just longer, but about the same amount of interior room....and the Bruce roberts 38 was like one of the old IOR boats, just a little larger cockpit, longer, leaner, a little faster...
now in my old age I like hot showers, hot food, coffee that's not instant, and a very comfortable place to sit....
I am waiting to see what Jacques does with the drawings....one of the reasons for my questions is because I didn't want to start the drawings for the "tug" that I was working on...actually, performance and size wise, the 2 boats are virtually identical, just different interpretations, and my wheel house is very much like what you desired....about 5 feet front to back, except where the area forward of the steering station is actually part of the cabin top for the forward cabin, to allow a large space for charts and chart paks. I like to use the large size charts when in close to shore to avoid things like cumulo-granite cloud structures.

[Spokaloo]

In our area, another problem is the Nimbostratus-ferry clouds, which tend to be quiet until the horn blasts.

Id love to see some pencil drawings on your tuggish boat. I do think Jacques boat would be a far sight faster build with her composite construction instead of a carvel or strip planked boat.

E

[paladin]

around the first of the week I'll have them reduced at the print shop for scanning.......

[Flying Orca]

Long range passages in a trawler with a raised pilot house is the only way to go. Any designer thats worth their credentials knows that for a 24 hour passagemaker, there are reasons to have the living quarters seperated from the person on watch and navigation area.

Yup. That's one of the things my brother loves about his Island Eagle (http://www.islandeagle.net). I think Tad (TR) has some smaller derivatives of IE on his site; you might want to check them out. There's a link off my blog.

Courtney, thanks for the kind words. Yours definitely has some similarity, though you make less idiotic mistakes than I do.

That or we're not as good at picking up on them! :p I can see us reaching some critical point and discovering that we done some basic bodging that went undetected until much later. But it's going OK for now. Sanding, sanding, sanding...