I have the engine, what design?

[Greg Stoll]

I just picked up a Graymarine 4-112 engine with a 1:1 gearbox, I'll start rebuilding it on Saturday. For those not familiar with it, it's a 4-cylinder flathead making 31hp at 3300 rpm. It's the same engine that came in Ford 8n tractors.

The boat I'm looking for would be trailerable (no carvel planking) with a cuddy cabin and a covered helm (or an open helm that would stand having a hardtop built over it). 21-26' long, will entertain either square or round stern.

Looking forward to the ideas,

Greg

[Paul Pless]

Excellent!

What you want to use the boat for?in what type of waters?

A boat meant for trolling for fish in open water will be far different than one intended for camp cruising a river...

[Greg Stoll]

Ah yes, I knew there was something I was forgetting. I want the boat for trolling in deep water; salmon and tuna off the Oregon Coast, maybe some port-hopping along the coast too. A large back deck for fishing and crabbing would be great. Needs to have cabin accommodations for two folks to sleep overnight and two folks to sit during the day.

Greg

[David G]

Greg - you didn't have to come to a fancy, international forum like this one to get that answer. Dan or Andrew or I or any of the Ol' Coots could have told you... put it in a stretched PDR <G>

"In politics (and boatbuilding), absurdity is not a handicap"

[Greg Stoll]

Yes David, I know exactly what I would have gotten had I posted to the Coots; that's why I didn't! Have any ideas in mind?

Greg

[JimD]

Ok, I'll bite. What's a PDR other than a Puddle Duck Racer?

[Greg Stoll]

Indeed, it is a Puddle Duck Racer.

Greg

[Dave Gray]

How about a Bartender?

[Woxbox]

The Bartender came to my mind, too. Otherwise one of the many Maine lobster boat models.
http://www.boat-links.com/DepoeBay/04/BartenderOrca-2.jpg

[Doug B]

having some experience with this motor I think you must really look at 31hp@3300,1:1. I'm no NA but even in a 16' skiff you're talking tiny prop. Graymarine did offer a reduction gear, but I"ve never seen one on this engine. This engine was used as a sail/aux like the atomic 4 and also in some small powerboats.
I never knew it was used in the 8n, as it is a continental block and wouldn't you assume ford would build its own engines? You learn something new everyday (hopefully).
The 4-112 is the same block as the 4-91. Gray offered a racing version with twin downdraft zenith carbs; 45hp @ 4000 if I remember correctly. I put this setup on a 4-112 in a Dyer Glamor Girl and towed a water skier at 27knts. This was with a 7x7 prop, rpm unknown.
Anyway it's a great little engine and when you get it done definitely upgrade to electronic ignition and stay away from electic fuel pumps.

[David G]

The Bartender came to my mind, too. Otherwise one of the many Maine lobster boat models.
http://www.boat-links.com/DepoeBay/04/BartenderOrca-2.jpg

Hey, a picture of some Coot Boats! Cool! That's Depoe Bay, Oregon. 26' Bartender in the near background. Scruffy is unique - two front ends from the Yankee Tender design melded into one boat.

Greg knows all about Bartenders. He used to own one, and is buddies with the owner of the BT biz in Bellingham. I think he is looking for alternatives with more fishing platform (and more beer-hauling capability?)<G>

"The quickest way to a man's heart really is through the stomach. That way you don't have to chop through that pesky ribcage" -- Jeph Jacques

[Paul Pless]

I like Bartenders, but to me they should be built around alittle more power.

How's about a St Pierre Dory model? Lots of plans in many different sizes and configurations available.
This one runs a 40 hp outboard in a well, but a straight inboard shouldn't be too much trouble. Plywood on frames, then covered with cloth and epoxy.

http://www.nexusmarine.com/images/27%27StPierre/Exteriors/at_anchor.jpg

more here: http://www.nexusmarine.com/st_pierre.html

[David G]

Greg - I know you've got some candidates in mind. Why don't you tell us which way you're trending, and we can react?

One thought... theres a lot of decent-shape commercial fishing boat sitting idle up & down the coast. Maybe too heavy?

Another thought... how about a slightly scaled down version of the one Peter Wilcox (RiversWest) is launching on Saturday?

http://www.nwboatschool.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=20

Where are you going to moor her? Newport? Depoe Bay?

"If you shoot at mimes, should you use a silencer?"

[paladin]

Bateau.com boat plans on line since 1993
Home
Boat building supplies
Plywood
Forum
Tech support

Go to this website....look at this boat or the family of boats around it and the study plans for all the details.
Down East Cruiser 23

I have no affiliation with these folks..

[David G]

Greg -

Weston Farmer: Poor Richard - maybe stretched slightly?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/poorichard/index.htm

Or, maybe something more like Farmer's Robinson Crusoe?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/robinsoncrusoe/index.htm

Atkin Sunflower?

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Sunflower.html

Or, one of my favorites - and Atkin Martha Green. You could build it, and I could buy it for my retirement boat when you get tired of it <g>

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/MarthaGreen.html



"Last year I went fishing with Salvador Dali. He was using a dotted line. He only caught every other fish"

[Greg Stoll]

Greg - I know you've got some candidates in mind. Why don't you tell us which way you're trending, and we can react?

One thought... theres a lot of decent-shape commercial fishing boat sitting idle up & down the coast. Maybe too heavy?

Another thought... how about a slightly scaled down version of the one Peter Wilcox (RiversWest) is launching on Saturday?

http://www.nwboatschool.org/boats/Boat_Detail.aspx?processID=20

Where are you going to moor her? Newport? Depoe Bay?

"If you shoot at mimes, should you use a silencer?"

Yes, of course I have some thoughts in mind. You have all touched on them.

Bartender - I talked with Bill and he recommended against it, and he's right; not enough power for a planing hull

St. Pierre - I've been doing a lot of looking at that, I even started e-mailing someone nearby who built one (but has since sold it to Canada... Dang!) He used a 27hp Yanmar, which is pretty close to my engine in weight and power.

When I was a kid in Depoe Bay there was a small carvel-planked troller, square sterned that I really like. It had a small inboard (unknown what type) and a 3-sided shelter wheelhouse that was open in the back. A small cuddy with a couple berths was forward. Overall dimensions were maybe 22' long, 8' wide, 1 1/2' of freeboard in the cockpit with this great big upswept bow, maybe 3' high at the stem. That's the ideal.

Of course, I would have to strip or plywood plank it on account of the trailerability needs. Atkin has a lot of good designs, I'm just not sure which one is best. Weston Farmer had some pretty cool ones too, I really like Poor Richard:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/poorichard/index.htm

The given length is 21', beam looks to be about 1/3 (7'). If only it were 10% bigger!

Greg

[Roger Cumming]

William Garden, in his book Yacht Designs, describes a similar situation - a rebuilt Easthope engine in his shop and the need of a neighbor for a fast launch. The result was an "economy commuter", 62' LOA, 7'-6" Beam, 4'-6" Beam at waterline, 3'-6" Draft. The draft is almost entirely due to its skeg. The boat has a flat bottom, constructed of plywood and 2x4s. the pictures show a handsome sharp sterned launch with a small shelter half of which is taken up by the engine which sits uncovered in the midst of things. According to the author she was very successful. This design has always intrigued me. It sounds like it could meet your requirements except for the trailering part. It was called Tlingit.

[Jon Agne]

Similar situation for me as well. I have a "new" Sabb G which I need to sell or put a boat around.

So much to do.....so little time!

[Tylerdurden]

Rescue Minor?

I think the bartender needs a lot more oomph.

[Tar Devil]

Mark mentioned Rescue Minor... I would think the Seabright hull would be a great choice. You could find a host of Seabright plans in all different sizes at Atkin & Co.'s (http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/) website.

[sv Lorelei]

Not to hijack the thread but what rotation did the stock Gray 4's have? Was it the same as the Atomic 4's or opposite?

[Banjo]

I love this one, not sure if your motor is right for this boat.
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=897
http://glen-l.com/designs/hankinson/kh-images/057vandal-l.gif

[Greg Stoll]

having some experience with this motor I think you must really look at 31hp@3300,1:1. I'm no NA but even in a 16' skiff you're talking tiny prop. Graymarine did offer a reduction gear, but I"ve never seen one on this engine. This engine was used as a sail/aux like the atomic 4 and also in some small powerboats.
I never knew it was used in the 8n, as it is a continental block and wouldn't you assume ford would build its own engines? You learn something new everyday (hopefully).
The 4-112 is the same block as the 4-91. Gray offered a racing version with twin downdraft zenith carbs; 45hp @ 4000 if I remember correctly. I put this setup on a 4-112 in a Dyer Glamor Girl and towed a water skier at 27knts. This was with a 7x7 prop, rpm unknown.
Anyway it's a great little engine and when you get it done definitely upgrade to electronic ignition and stay away from electic fuel pumps.

Where do I get parts for electronic ignition?

Greg

[Greg Stoll]

having some experience with this motor I think you must really look at 31hp@3300,1:1. I'm no NA but even in a 16' skiff you're talking tiny prop. Graymarine did offer a reduction gear, but I"ve never seen one on this engine. This engine was used as a sail/aux like the atomic 4 and also in some small powerboats.


That's good point. I was worried about the same thing. I was kind of surprised when I looked at the Graymarine literature that suggests something like a 13x10 prop for this engine. The literature does state that it can be successfully run at full throttle at as little as 1600 rpm, although I doubt I'd want to do that. Having a larger engine run at a lower throttle setting isn't all bad, right?

Greg

[sv Lorelei]

Where do I get parts for electronic ignition?

Greg

Greg; Find out what distributor you have on the engine. Chances are there's a kit out there that fits. We put one on our A4 and noticed a significant decrease in fuel consumption. Indigo Systems, I believe is one source for marine engine kits, though there may be others out there. We got ours from Moyer Marine who do Atomic 4 parts but Don Moyer's a good egg and may be able to point you in the right direction if he can't help you out. I think most NAPA's have a generic kit based on whatever distributor you have. I know the A4's used both Delco and Prestolite distributors and I'd expect you'll find a similar if not exact congruence in Gray Marine engines. It's a really easy conversion and with today's fuel prices it'll probably pay for itself the first year.

[Tylerdurden]

Greg; Find out what distributor you have on the engine. Chances are there's a kit out there that fits. We put one on our A4 and noticed a significant decrease in fuel consumption. Indigo Systems, I believe is one source for marine engine kits, though there may be others out there. We got ours from Moyer Marine who do Atomic 4 parts but Don Moyer's a good egg and may be able to point you in the right direction if he can't help you out. I think most NAPA's have a generic kit based on whatever distributor you have. I know the A4's used both Delco and Prestolite distributors and I'd expect you'll find a similar if not exact congruence in Gray Marine engines. It's a really easy conversion and with today's fuel prices it'll probably pay for itself the first year.

Buy the distributor complete if you can. Then clean and refurbish the old one. Vacuum bag it and you will always have a back up.

[afbrian13]

I say a pretty little drake tail crabbin boat. I've always been partial to the Chesapeake crabbers and the drake added on finishes it well. Maybe its because I like seafood so much???
Brian

[Doug B]

Greg
Van Ness engineering in New Jersey sells a replacement distributor and a companion coil. He always has an ad in the Woodenboat classifieds. Re lugging these engines: I have a 620 (1:1 ) in my 25' catboat (7 ton disp) . This 140 cu.in. engine pushes Gannet at hull speed at 1100 rpm, using 1 gph, and really dosen't seem to mind.

[botebum]

Tolman Skiff
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/botebum/Boat%20Stuff/TolmanSkiff.jpg

Doug

[dirtsailor]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2301/2205094560_354fe84ed0.jpg

Greg how about this? Designed to use a 22hp Saab. 24' can be built of ply too.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2205094490_992d692b65.jpg

Designed by Scott Sprague, Accumar Corp. This is next after the Elver.

[Tar Devil]

Tolman Skiff
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/botebum/Boat%20Stuff/TolmanSkiff.jpg

Doug

For an inboard?

[Greg Stoll]

Dirt,

That looks good; strip planked I assume?

I finally remembered the name of the boat in Depoe Bay that I have in mind for this engine; remember the Water Hi? That's the boat I could see this engine in. I'll stop and take pics the next time I go over there.

Greg

[rbgarr]

I bet Paul Gartside could rejigger Wayward to suit an inboard. She's more easily trailerable than some and suits your other criteria pretty closely. http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#wayward

[Greg Stoll]

I bet Paul Gartside could rejigger Wayward to suit an inboard. She's more easily trailerable than some and suits your other criteria pretty closely. http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#wayward

Wow, that's almost perfect! I'll e-mail him today to see if he can rework it for my engine.

Greg

[johnw]

Check out a copy of Sucher's Simplified Boatbuilding: The V-Bottomed Boat. There are some Hooper Island skiffs that were designed for about this size of engine. If you built the 25-footer, you might get 12 knots out of that engine. Only 4'2"" wide, though, if memory serves. I'm sure you could build it in plywood.

[dirtsailor]

Greg,

I know the boat well was tied up next to me for four years. Owned By G. Wahl. When we were down in Newport a while back I saw this at the Embarcedero dock, similar lines to Water-Hi.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2350/2005283456_f19d79afef.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2360/2004486977_d90e8c2426.jpg

Transom shot:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/2005285390_9c98f06565.jpg

The bow on this boat is not as pronounced. Nice and salty looking, and well maintained. Next time you're down there take a look.

[Greg Stoll]

Oh my, that is a pretty boat. It even has the open side for the lobsterman!

Greg

[dirtsailor]

Oh my, that is a pretty boat. It even has the open side for the lobsterman!

Greg

You ought to know better, thats "Dungeness Man" here dude.

[Greg Stoll]

I bet Paul Gartside could rejigger Wayward to suit an inboard. She's more easily trailerable than some and suits your other criteria pretty closely. http://www.gartsideboats.com/catpow.php#wayward

Paul said that it would be possible to redraw for an inboard, he has had a few inquiries but no one to take the bait yet. I'll have to see how the current project is coming before taking the bait myself, the boat shed won't be open until Fall anyhow.

Greg