William Garden Eel

[RandyColker]

I have loved the Eel design (in 30 Wooden Boats) and bought plans to build her. Going over the plans has raised several questions:

1. The stern looks a little heavy to me and I think it would be more attractive to have it not come up quite so high. Would there be any problem in lowering it a couple inches and adjusting the sheer accordingly from where it starts to curve back up?

2. My previous sailboats have been plastic ones with self-bailing cockpits, a very nice feature. It looks like this could be done by raising the sole about four inches starting from the back of the cabin slanting down. Would this be any problem and would it be worth doing?

3. Being a canoe stern, the stern is a fairly tight radius. I plan to strip build with 3/4 inch cedar. Will there be any problem with bending the wood, or will I need to use a particular method to bend it.

Help is greatly appreciated.

[Thorne]

Personally, I'd say get plans for another boat, as it sounds like you are not satisfied with the Eel.

Making significant modifications to plans sometimes requires a very high level of knowledge and experience with boat designing, and possibly even that specific design -- that's what naval architects are for.

You also end up with an Eel that isn't an Eel, if you catch my drift.

;0 )

My impression of your post is sorta like hearing, "I like Mary and want to marry her. But she'll need to learn mountain climbing instead of tennis, dye her hair blonde, lose 20 lbs, and take up the piano."

Not a recipe for success, right?

[StevenBauer]

I agree with Thorn here.
The stern looks just fine to me, what's not to like:

http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/traditional_sail/eels/eel3.jpg


Steven

[Steve Paskey]

I wouldn't even DREAM of messing with the sheer at all unless (a) you have an exceptionally good eye; and (b) you're willing to loft the boat FULL SIZE before you build.

But lowering it a "couple of inches"? :eek::eek::eek: Don't even think about it. Learn to love it, or look for another design.

[Ed Armstrong]

I agree with the others and would add that I personally would not want to spend several thousand hours building a boat only to find that I've created a design that does not perform well (or is potentially unsafe). I wouldn't consider making changes unless I had the time and experience to do the iterative calculations required to modify the design, figure how those changes effect balance, stability, etc. and then make more changes and calculations until I had something workable (and study, study, study to make sure I'd figured everything that I needed to). With the number of boat designs out there, it's much easier to find something that you're fully satisfied with, or if you just cannot find everything that you want, and you have more money than me, hire an experienced naval architect to make changes to an existing design that is almost, but not quite, what you're looking for. Take a look at the Dragonship posting that was posted to this board awhile ago to see what it takes to figure out the intricacies of boat design.

That just my 2 cents,

Ed

[willmarsh3]

I love the Eel and I am thinking about building one myself. Someone once said on a forum post she's the fairest boat of all. I'm with the others on not recommending any hull modifications. Boat design is a whole career's worth of skill, knowledge, and talent. Also it would hurt resale value.

For other less significant changes like a self bailing cockpit you may want to talk to the folks here at: http://www.schoonercreek.com.

They have built several Eels. http://www.schoonercreek.com/new_const/traditional_sail/traditional_sail.htm

[Phil Dory]

I was at the Portland Boat Show earlier this month and Schooner Creek exhibited an open cockpit strip-built Eel. It's a beautiful boat and I also would advise against changing anything. This one was built a few decades ago and had sailed to Alaska; it still looked fantastic.

Coming back from the boat show, it struck me however that boating now seems to be mostly about the size of your outboard. I saw 300hp outboards that are bigger than some cars I've owned, and a lot more expensive. Pathetic.

[Woxbox]

Are you going to keep the boat on a trailer? If so, a self-draining cockpit really isn't necessary, and will just create a tight, closed space below the sole that you can't easily get at or dry out.

If she's going to be left on a mooring or at a dock, I can see trying it -- but 4" is actually a lot of foot room/depth to lose in a boat this size.

Oh, yes. I too find the lines of Eel just about perfect. On par with Strange's best.

[Bill Perkins]

I think the 4 inches you would miss most would be the coaming height above your seat when using the coaming as a back rest .

[rbgarr]

Re planking the rounded stern-

There's this comment from JimConlin about a builder who planked one of Joel White's LALA designs (similar stern to EEL's):
I'd also talk with Joe Norton at Norton Boat Works (414) 294-6813 .
He built Lala to the round-stern design. Ask him about the planking of the stern. It was reported to be trying.

http://i32.tinypic.com/ormdfo.jpg

I also agree about not changing the sheer (without at least conferring with Wm. Garden) Those round stern sheerlines are among the most difficult to get right, first in the 2D profile and plan views, then in the shop.

[goodbasil]

Years ago I was talking to Bill Garden by phone, (No, I don't know him.) Anyway, he directed me to Paul Gartside about my requests. Afterall, Mr. Garden is retired. Even though Eel is a Garden design, I wouldn't be shy about listing my questions, (short and to the point) and asking Mr. Gartside his opinion. In fact i wouldn't be shy about phoning Mr. Garden and asking him who he would recomend as a consultant. These people are confident in their work, they are not easy to offend.
Write a short letter and send it to him.

P.S. If you can, find an Eel or some good photos of one in the water, things may look different then.

[Lion]

Hi Randy

It is true that the stern sheer looks a little perky as drawn but as someone who has seen the results when done as Mr Garden intended it just fine! Do not fiddle with it!

I was on the verge of buying a bright finished strip planked version but the seller pulled it off the market before I could pass him the money. Subsequetly lost contact and it was sold a couple of years later.

Really sad about it as it is one of the sweetest little boats around and I aint got the rescources to build her.

Go at it - as drawn - and you will be delighted with the outcome.

Lion

[Tom Robb]

Every once in a while one of these threads comes along where a guy wants a boat like a Classic XYZ but wants some sort of vandalizing change(s). How does one respond? Sarcasm? Pleading? Ignore it?

[Ed Armstrong]

Personally, I think we need to encourage him...to build a boat, at least. He does want to build a wooden boat, and that's a good thing, right? However, it is also important for us to point out the possible pitfalls of modifying a proven design without direction of an experience NA, and if we feel the need, we can also point out whether we agree with his proposed modifications. In my opinion, it would be pretty hard to improve upon a classic design like the Eel, but I've also found what I'd call "classic designs" where I've though "wow, that's just about perfect for me. If only..." I've even gone so far as to ask Brooklyn Boatyard what it would cost to redesign the Flatfish for cold molded construction. It wasn't all that much, but it was more than my pocketbook (and wife) would bear, and I decided then that it was a whole lot easier to keep looking until I found a design that was 98% right for me, and live with the 2% that wasn't (since then I've realized that there is no way I'm going to get 2,000 hours to build the boat that I want anyways, so I'm sticking to dinghies for now).

Anyways, that's my 2 cents. It's not worth much, because I'm a newby amatuer builder with only 1 boat and 125 posts to my name -- compared with some people with over 4,000 posts. How long do you have to hang around here to rack up 4,000 posts!! :).

Ed

[willmarsh3]

There's hope because he's at least asking questions before committing design vandalism.

[Keith Wilson]

Here we go again, the "don't change anything or the world will end" chorus. C'mon guys, he's not suggesting vinyl siding on the Taj Mahal! A self-bailing cockpit is a technical change; it requires that the engineering be worked out reasonably well, and ventilation for the area underneath it is indeed an issue, but its not that a horrible an idea. Honestly, I don't think it's worth the trouble; Eel shouldn't ship much water in any conditions a sane man would go out in. And it will make the seats less comfortable, I guarantee it.

As for changing the sheer aft - a change of even an inch or two is purely aesthetic. It will affect the function of the boat negligibly, if at all, so don't frighten the poor fellow with talk about calculations. OTOH, it could make a big aesthetic difference, and possibly turn what is almost universally regarded as a very pretty boat into - well, into something else. Bill Garden had a very good eye, and the couple of Eels I've seen have looked just fine. Sometimes very subtle changes in the sheerline can have a large effect on how the boat looks from a distance. Your call, though. It'll still float either way.

BTW, Paul Gartside is a very fine fellow. I toll his course at the WB school last summer, and I'd recommend him to anyone.