Seeking large canoe (or similar) plans

[TK1]

Hi,

My first post here (after lurking for some time) so g'day / hello to everyone!

My primary interest is in kayaks and canoes (although I like all wooden boats, power and sail :o).

Whilst I am building and enjoy paddling single and double boats, I would like something bigger for the whole family to go out in.

So, having looked at all sorts of wooden boats and ruling out a Baby Bootlegger replica or J-class yacht out as impractical, expensive and hard to get on a trailer, I'm looking at large 'freighter' canoes or similar designs.

I like the ones on www.chesuncookcanoe.com (http://www.chesuncookcanoe.com) but want somethingI can build myself from wood (wood or ply strips sheathed in fiberglass, probably with steam-bent ribs).

Criteria will be:
-able to accommodate 4 adults minimum plus picnic/fishing gear
-powered by a small outboard, secondary by paddles/poles
-stable and reasonably high sided to keep dry (and safer for kids) and stable enough to stand up ad fly-fish from
-fairly flat-bottomed (or shallow curve) to allow beaching & side-by-side seating if possible
-used in lakes and rivers
-trailerable
-less than 20' long, ideally less than 17-18' long and reasonable beam

So, if anyone out there on the forum knows of plans (kits and completed boats are far too expensive to import into Oz for me), I'd be interested to know.

Note, I am willing to be swayed into building a skiff or similar if sane arguments prevail!

Thanks,
Darren
Melbourne, Australia

[Bruce Hooke]

I would certainly encourage you to look towards a skiff or something similar rather than a big canoe. A canoe big enough to hold 4 adults and allow for side-by-side seating and standing fly fishing is going to be a big, unwieldy beast that will require a lot of teamwork to paddle. A nice skiff designed for a low powered outboard or occasional rowing will be easier and more fun to use. In addition, there are a LOT more plans out there to choose from if you go in the skiff direction.

As background, it should also be noted that a standard 18 foot canoe is good for maybe 2 adults and a couple of young children, but nowhere near big enough for 4 adults plus some gear.

[peter osberg]

I have been beach cruising with freinds and family using large canoes on the BC and Alaska coasts for the last 19 summers. I could forward a pdf article on to you that was in MAIB magazine last may. If you get you email address through. I have had no luck posting it. peter

[Pierce Nichols]

There's a sheathed strip Bolger designed canoe that seems like it would fit your bill. It's #14 in Boats with an Open Mind.

[boatbear]

Welcome, Darren. Another way to go is to build 2 canoes. I suggest you get the 'Canoecraft' book by Ted Moores - used copies are available cheaply through Amazon.com. It has good explanations of canoe characteristics, complete plans for a number of good canoes and full instructions for making wood strip canoes.
A proper canoe is a very easy craft to propel through the water; having two can make it a lot more fun.

Otherwise, a skiff designed to take an outboard is a good option. There is also the romance of a rowboat with two or more rowing stations to think about. Good luck.
Charlie

[DLC]

where are you located
i have a 21 foot freight canoe that needs a new home

[Bruce Hooke]

where are you located
i have a 21 foot freight canoe that needs a new home

Check the end of his post...he is in Melbourne, Australia...

[TK1]

Hi,

Thanks for the repies so far.

DLC, Thanks for the offer...I'm located in Australia (Melbourne) so there's a pretty good chanceI'm too far away to pick up the canoe...wehre are you located?

Charlie, I considered 2 canoes but wanted something larger with amotor to get across lakes and up/down some of our bigger rivers - i.e. for picnicing or exploring a bit further than paddling would allow (and at an easier pace for the wife and kids).

Still looking at skiffs and things, maybe I am expecting too much from a large canoe so will keep pondering (and building smaller ones in the meantime, this build is a couple down the list).

Thanks,
Darren

[keyhavenpotterer]

Solway Dory have a design for paddling at 28' and a sailing design as well. Have a look here

http://www.solwaydory.fsnet.co.uk/group_canoes/group.html

Brian

[JimD]

A sixteen footer by the late Robb White:

http://www.robbwhite.com/i/boatfinished1.jpg
Specifications

Strip planked
Length 16'
Beam 43"
Weight 88# (without floorboards)
Engine: Martin 60, 7.2 hp., National Pressure Cooker Company, Eau Claire, Wisc., 1946... wt. 40#.Performance
The boat will easily plane two adults with 3 hp. and will run like all-get-out with this engine. I recommend five or six hp.
Plans, $75 pp.

http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html

[JimD]

Paul Fisher has some chined plywood offerings, too:
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcanoe.htm

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcanoep1.jpg

[Yeadon]

That Robb White design just got a big-time OOOOOOOOHHHHH out of me. Sometimes they just grab you like that.

[JimD]

That Robb White design just got a big-time OOOOOOOOHHHHH out of me. Sometimes they just grab you like that.

A beauty, all right. It was such a treat to have Robb post on the forum from time to time before he passed away.

[openboater]

Gil Gilpatrick's book on strip canoe building is a good one. It's written by Gil , a highschool shop teacher and tells how to build tough, servicable, though not overly pretty boats.

I can't find my copy, but as I remember, he refrences plans for a Grand Laker, something up your alley.

http://gilgilpatrick.com/strip-canoe.html $17.95 and includes 8 plans, I used it as a reference for my first stripper, very useful.

[tattooed john]

What about a canoe yawl?

[Todd Bradshaw]

There is always David Hazen's 20' Micmac canoe, which is a stripper based on the old freight canoes and the plans come free with the book that explains how to build the boats. The book is "The Stripper's Guide to Canoe Building". Last time I checked it was available from WoodenBoat.

http://www.peak.org/~innercom/Canoe/SSboat1.JPG

[Canoez]

Not having Gil Gilpatrick's book at my fingertips, I'm headed off in my head to the recollection of a Grand Laker that I restored - they're a design that's really adapted to the place where they are used the tasks they were designed for (guiding) and tend to be BIG. IIRC, the one I worked on was about 24' long and 4' in the beam with a 2" thick mohogany transom. Bit bigger than Darren might be looking for.

Robb's boat looks like a decent solution, as does the Micmac, but packing 4 adults, picnic gear, a motor, paddles, etc. into a sub-18' boat may be tricky unless you're willing to give up the "paddleability" for something with a fairly broad beam. 20' is probably more like it.

[openboater]

grand laker 19'6" x 45" x 18" deep

as per http://www.wcha.org/build_restore/plans.html

[Thorne]

If the post didn't have 'canoe' in the subject, I'd say he's describing a large pirogue or jonboat, particularly with the outboard as primary propulsion.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jonsboat/leinweb.jpg

[Bruce Hooke]

A sixteen footer by the late Robb White:

http://www.robbwhite.com/i/boatfinished1.jpg
http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html

This is a beautiful boat, and might fit the bill. I do have to wonder if, when you get up to this sort of width, it wouldn't make more sense to shift to oars for manual propulsion rather than paddles. Much as a love paddling my canoes, if a boat is wide enough, oars are more efficient and allow you to stay centered in the boat rather than shifting your weight way over to one side or the other, which would presumably be more of an issue with a wider boat than it is with a narrower canoe. Given the design of the seats in this boat you could not slide over close to the gunwale and still have a good surface to sit on, so paddling seems like it would not be a whole lot of fun. Of course if you only see paddles as emergency propulsion then that is another matter.

[Bruce Hooke]

There is always David Hazen's 20' Micmac canoe, which is a stripper based on the old freight canoes and the plans come free with the book that explains how to build the boats. The book is "The Stripper's Guide to Canoe Building". Last time I checked it was available from WoodenBoat.

http://www.peak.org/%7Einnercom/Canoe/SSboat1.JPG

This design seems to me to be better designed for paddling because it pinches down so much near the ends to give you better access for paddling. Still, for the purpose described, I think I'd look to some sort of rowing craft (even possibly one that is built using canoe building techniques, such as the Robb White boat but set up for rowing) than a big freight canoe.

[Canoez]

This is the stuff I was thinking of:

http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/boatbuilding/img_bb/grandlakes_final.jpg

I'm sure you could do them in strip construction, too.

http://troutunderground.com/2006/09/08/the-grand-lake-canoe-an-essay-with-images/

and

http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/boatbuilding/canoe-grand-laker.php

The one I worked on may have been a 'freighter'. Big bugger, it was.

Beautiful boats.:D

[Todd Bradshaw]

Personally, I've never enjoyed sitting backwards or the whole fixed-fulcrum thing that oars bring to the mix, even in a responsive boat. I say if you want a big canoe, build a big canoe. I did, and have never regretted it a bit. You will probably be pleasantly surprised that most big canoes still maintain much of the feel, handling and characteristics of their normal-sized cousins. Due to weight, they take a bit more uumph to get them going, but the steering is pretty much the same. The middle paddlers provide power and the bow and stern paddlers use the same mixture of strokes to both add power and maneuver as they would if they happened to be paddling tandem in a typical 17-footer.

The addition of a wide, freighter-style transom is going to mean that outboard power will likely be your first choice for long distances, but with three or four people aboard, the boat will still paddle and could also even be rowed if you ever desire to try oars. A V-stern with a small transom above the waterline is also a possibility if you want to use a smaller motor and spend more time paddling.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sail%20photos/Rbig%203.jpg