Continuation of kayak chinese lugsail

[DiamondBullet]

This is the start of the next installment on the lugsail.

Progress to date: telescopic mast finished, mast step finished, masthead finished, boom and yard finished, Spirit sail attachment finished, leeboards being varnished, Sail all done bar edging and batten fixing plus attachment points to lash to boom/yard. Also to cut holes in webbing where battens come apart for easy dismantlement.

Things to finish: Sail, leeboard attaching points, attachment of mast step to kayak, rigging details, attachment of cleats and associated to kayak. This will be done when we get to the end of our treecutting schedule (soon) and have a good fine day to dry the resin.

I am going to assemble some of the original drawings and photos into a single source so people can see the progress up to now.

I've booked a sailing day to teach us the ropes. I'm hoping to put some bits up here and on PA's new canoe sailing page to show how it all performs when done.

Now for breakfast!

[boatbear]

Quote - "I am going to assemble some of the original drawings and photos into a single source so people can see the progress up to now."

Goodo. Thanks DB. Keep it coming.
Charlie

[DiamondBullet]

I'm about halfway through in compiling the old thread. There's a lot there! Still varnishing and sewing. Forgot to mention that Todd's 'newfangled leeboard clamps' are still in construction. We have to visit the local lathe shop to get some bits to finish it properly. Also we are using the drill sharpener but are having a few issues with it having some movement in there, which isn't good for accuracy. We've now got the wheel stable but the actual sharpener has some play. I'm in the process of taking some photos of all this to put up. I've decided on a symbol for the sail and will do some draft illustrations to see where it will look best. I'll put these up.

Have a luvverly day folks!

[Ahimsakid]

DB: You are having the "new-fangled clamps" fabricated? Wonderful!
Any chance there will be a production overrun? I'd love to incorporate them into my project. What are they costing you? Have you had blueprints made that I might glom onto?

[Pernicious Atavist]

"I am going to assemble some of the original drawings and photos into a single source so people can see the progress up to now."

And you know where there's room for those drawing and photos, right?

[DiamondBullet]

Ahimsakid – No blueprints as it is a bodge and try it method at the moment. But once finished and deemed workable we will put up some illustrations with dimensions and instructions as to how we did it, with some photos. The size may vary due to how big your leeboards are, how large the studding is and how you are fitting them to the boat. They are pretty simple but need to be turned on a lathe. My partner is mucking about with them but needs a slot cutter. His birthday is looming and we are going to the lathe shop to get that and some other gizmos he's been drooling over! (no cheap aftershave for him). If you know anyone with a lathe and some brass rod it should be a matter of just adapting the drawings we put up. This will be happening in the next two weeks hopefully.

PA, of course I do, now you've torn me between two forums! I think what I will do is finish up my project here, and take the next one across ('cos you know there'll be a next one! – the twizzle sail) Then I can leave the long-suffering folk at wooden boats in peace (until I make the lapstrake!)

[Todd Bradshaw]

...gee,
I sure hope the damned clamps actually work. They worked great in my mind....

[DiamondBullet]

TB – welcome to the new old thread! I'm still indebted to you despite your name no longer heading the shebang. We'll make those damned clamps work! May have to have a lock down to compensate for the water slapping the leeboards and maybe unloosing them, but that's all in the development.

Here's the old thread compiled into a pdf file for you all to download. It contains most of the images, but my links are still live. I will compile my links into a separate file at some stage and will offer it for download. So, Todd, you can tidy up your space and get more room now. I've kept it simple and it is edited down to the relevant talk on the subject (it was getting very large). When we finish up the project I will join the rest of this thread to the file and offer up a complete package.


http://homepage.mac.com/cda_it/Sites/Forum/Lugsail_forum.pdf

[Pernicious Atavist]

Diamond...is that a wooden boat you're working on? If it is, then you are torn, if it is not.....
Anyway, I'm on both forums.

[DiamondBullet]

PA, well...no, I know! But don't worry, this will all need editing and refining for your site. I can't really start half-cocked in your forum. No one will no what's going on. So I'll represent this project on your site with an article and possibly the pdf of this thread. Then we can have a thread for comments on it. I'm hoping to have this done by March.

[DiamondBullet]

Here's a reworking of how the sail now looks with the tabs and the webbing edges. The battens are a little thinner than on the drawing, but it gives a good idea of how it looks. It's not absolutely accurate! Do you think the logo looks OK in that position? I chose an Egyptian bee as I have an interest in ancient Egypt, we keep bees and my surname (and Diamond Bullet) begin with B!

http://homepage.mac.com/cda_it/Sites/Sailfinal/Chineselugfinal2.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

Other than the fact that I'd move it down a panel, level the boat out, move it forward a touch, turn the bee around so that he's facing forward and paint his body black so that my mind isn't seeing something I can't identify attached to a pair of bunny ears........I like it! :)

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Chineselugfinal3copy.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

Then again, I'm seriously considering using up a lot of small Dacron scraps and building this one....so I might have fallen off the deep end when it comes to sail graphics...

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/Sail%20photos/ulua.jpg

[kenjamin]

Brad, I'm afraid you'll scare the fish away with that sail, but I still like it. Go for it, dude!

[Pernicious Atavist]

Todd, I'll second that!

[DiamondBullet]

I have an affinity with bunnies as well – in a nice stew! But I musn't upset the community by digressing from the subject matter or it's back to the bilge. I'm getting very close to finishing the edging and may have found a compromise solution to hold the battens in, which uses Todd's velcro suggestion in a slightly different way. The logo for the sail – I'm going to try outputting the graphic with my Epson onto T-shirt transfer paper, and have fun on a scrap piece of kite material, seeing if I can wrinkle it up into a golf ball! I don't think it will work but I have some spare and I'll have a go. Someone has to try these things! You may have wondered why the graphic is small... I only have A4 transfer paper!!

Which brings me back to that crazy vee sail... Todd, you cannot be serious! And you have a go at me for all that tedious hand sewing! Plus the fact you cannot use it as a sail... it's too good looking and should be a wall hanging:) (but if it wraps up small and can be posted I'll have it when you're finished with it)

Jeremy got the slot cutter today so it's onward with the newfangled leeboard clamps. Has anyone downloaded the pdf yet... are there any problems or comments on it? I didn't have time to check it after I did it.

[boatbear]

DB, the PDF is great, safely saved to a couple of different partitions on my 'puter. All the useful stuff is there, along with sufficient fun to make it enjoyable as well as informative. Thanks for your good work there.
Charlie

ps: Great sail, TB.

[DiamondBullet]

That's good, have a great weekend.

[Ahimsakid]

DB: Good luck with the image transfer, there's no reason why it shouldn't work, right? I've also used a transfer (on my Epson) that has a silk fabric basis . . . not as flexible, but a tad more substantial than just transfering ink with no substrate. As for size limitations, why not rasterbate that bee?
"The Rasterbator (http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/)creates huge, rasterized images from any picture. Upload an image, print the resulting multi-page pdf file and assemble the pages into extremely cool looking poster up to 20 meters in size."

[DiamondBullet]

Dear Ahimsakid,

I had a go at the transfer from the Epson. Well, it sort of worked with a bit of fiddling but I had to be VERY careful with the heat and I was only working with a 4inch square image. I think it may be a potential disaster with a larger image, plus backing it up I would be in danger of losing the image on the reverse side when reheating it. There is also the danger of melting the sail itself. I tried an iron and a heat gun and the heat gun was less risky as I heated the transfer remotely from the fabric to a high heat, with the fabric only heated slightly, and then slapped the image on and burnished it down. But I had to be quick which causes positioning problems. I will have to make the symbol up separately and affix it to the sail to be safe.

This silk fabric transfer... is it an Epson product? How do you use it? Rasterbator sounds interesting, I will investigate as it could be useful for other things, many thanks.

I'm still sewing. These last fiddly bits are taking a long time. I'm working through a few layers at a time so a thimble is in order (I haven't got round to the palm yet Todd, apologies! But it will be made.) I'm also going to be adding corner webbing for the eyelets as the thickness of the webbing in the corners is now too thick to put the eyelets through!!

I'm reassessing the bee logo. Although Todd's comments are correct it doesn't look comfortable in the new spot so I'm going to maybe remove the boat and have the bee free floating so there isn't that odd converging of the black batten lines and the line of the boat. It all sounds a little unimportant in comparison to the sail design, but it will irritate me more than my dodgy stitching if it appears wrong!

I do agree it should face forwards as a symbol of the motion.

[DiamondBullet]

Dear Folks,

Here's the next stage on the neverending lugsail project! Had a gloriously warm weekend to do the job. Global warming has helped to bring this part forward a bit.


http://homepage.mac.com/cda_it/Sites/Mast/Mast.html

I'm going to be sanding off the edges and then fitting it proper (but our strange warm weather spell seems to be ending so that may be a couple of weeks off yet). I'm still finishing the sail bits. When the mast base is finally fitted we will have a go at the rigging and see how it hangs! Still chewing on the logo problem. I may go for a more aggressive bee image to motivate the sail a bit. The egyptian one looks a bit static like a dead air situation! I may have to paint it by hand, but not sure what sort of paint to use in this situation.

[boatbear]

Good progress DB, and nice work. You are going to love your next (wooden) craft for the simplicity when fitting bits.

We are having a refreshingly cool break here, with temps down around 30 degrees C. Much nicer for working.
Charlie

[DiamondBullet]

Send us some of your heat BB! That way we both get some work done. A quick extra, the revised batten end covers are working OK. I may have to illustrate it rather than show a photo as it won't be very informational. I added some more resin to the backs of the rough resin to finish them better. Haven't done any sanding yet, I think I'll need a dust mask to cope with the horrible storm it will create. Then I'm hoping to polish the resin on the mast plate to some sort of shine. I received the varnish yesterday so the leeboards will be getting a few more coats in between times.

Yes, wood sounds much easier in some ways. But when you start a job...

[Todd Bradshaw]

Spray enamel from a can will work resonably well if you mask it off and spray a couple of light coats. Vinyl silk-screen ink works as well and flexes nicely, but you have to find it, brush it on and heat it with a hair dryer to dry it (kind of a pain). Option #3 is to try a bunch of hobby paints on scrap with a brush, then wad them up, dunk 'em in water, etc. to see what holds up. Option #4 is to locate some "Insignia Dacron" from your sailmaking supply source. It's peel and stick light Dacron, cut the logo out, stick it on and it's done. That's how most logos and numbers are applied to sails these days. Option #5 is to cut them from nylon and zig-zag or hand-sew them on applique-style. That's how logos and numbers were applied in the old days. A pain to do, but it can look pretty classy if done well.

[DiamondBullet]

Thanks Todd. I like the Dacron idea as I think it will be the cleanest, so I'll have a look around. I'll let you know if I find an alternative.

[DiamondBullet]

I've just had a major set back on the mast attaching point. The resin on the base is fine and I have sanded it ready for fitting. The resin on the mast plate has catastrophically failed. I was tapping out the bolts with a leather hammer (which I did no problem the other day). I don't know if it was the cold or the nature of the resin, but it suddenly shattered. I suppose it is better to find out now rather than out on the water, but I'm well disappointed.

I think I may be able to save the situation by introducing some fibreglass matting to enclose the resin, so holding it together. It has basically cracked into three pieces. I was going to have a padding layer of rubber between it and the kayak anyway to absorb shock, but thought it would be more resilient than has turned out. What a bummer!

[boatbear]

DB, I haven't looked in for a while.
Have you made another mast attachment thingy? A nice new one, better than the other one, reinforced to within an inch of its life? The mast attachment thingy to make all other mast attachment thingies quiver with barely repressed resentment? I need to know.
Charlie

[Pernicious Atavist]

Carole, it sounds like your resin was not mixed with a filler, am I right? Now, I'm not sure what you did, but, would it have been better to unscrew the bolts instead of driving them out? Did the resin fill the bolt threads?
I'd make a new piece, this time mix the resin with a filler, maybe chopped up fiberglass. In any event, maybe a new piece is in order.

[DiamondBullet]

BB and PA,

I've reinforced the resin with fibreglass sheet top and bottom, but haven't had a chance to clean it up and trial fit it. I was also toying with the idea of putting a thin rubber layer (lorry inner tube cut up) between the block and kayak body to take some of the shock and abrasion away from the plastic hull. The sail is done apart from putting in the eyelets at the corners and cutting holes in the batten sleeves where they will fold on disassembly. I'm on the last coats on the leeboards. I've had loads of work in lately which has slowed progress. March is looming when we will be out on our sailing training day. It has been very windy lately so I'm slightly nervous.

The bolts in the resin had masking tape around them which I had hoped would facilitate easy removal. We had already removed them once and re inserted them just to keep everything together. The resin must have shrunk over the next two days while curing and they were less easy to remove. A simple tap unloosed the first three but that simple tap on the very last bolt resulted in the disaster. I think in retrospect greased paper may have been better wrapped around the bolts as the sticky back on the masking tape negated removal via an unscrewing action.

As for the logo. Jury is still out. I can't get an image I'm happy with. The only dacron insignia I can locate is in tape like rolls, and there is some which can be used on a printer but it comes in vast rolls. I'm not out to spoil the sail after all the graft so I may just pin a small badge on the sail as a charm for now. I quite like the idea of an eye of horus in a modern derivation, but still can't find the means to get it onto the kite fabric.

I'll let you know when something significant happens!

[boatbear]

Ah, work! It has a habit of interfering with fun. Glad to hear that the new mast attachment thingy is done. Rubber layer sounds good. If it is to be bolted to the (unmentionable substance) hull it might be good to make a sheet stainless steel backing on the outside of the hull to spread the load.
Charlie

[DiamondBullet]

Dear All,

I hope you are well and enjoying summer.

I am still alive and kayaking! Just not as much as I would have hoped as it hasn't been a great year so far (but things WILL change). After getting through six months of incredible busy-ness and other commitments I finally decided to pick up where I left off before all this. Therefore I now have something to report of worth. I haven't been on the forum for quite a while so I've lost the thread on a lot of things. Plus I sort of lost faith for a little while and had to step back from things online.

Anyway, I have been sorting the mast step and it is now ready to fit to the kayak. The stainless plate on top sandwiches two rubber layers with the moulded resin in-between. From this an aluminium square section goes down through the hull and another piece of hardwood to spread the load then on to the base, attached to the floor of the kayak. It all feels quite heavy but I figure the stresses on the hull need some substantial support. We were hoping to do this tonight but it has been torrential rain so this is postponed until tomorrow night. That is why I decided to write it up here.

We've taken the kayak out only a few times this year, and with a big hole where the maststep was to go, but it didn't fill with water at all, not even when it rained! I do miss the Spirit Downwind sail so I'm eager to get the mast fitted with the new sail carrier I made. Once the mast is fitted we can sort the rigging details. The leeboard clamps are almost complete but I need to catch up on how I was going to fit them as I've forgotten what my conclusions were. The leeboards are all varnished and looking nice. The only thing left after that is the rudder extension, which shouldn't be too much of a problem compared to everything else.

I've had some back treatments including acupuncture which has improved everything enormously and I now feel I have the flexibility to be able to sail. So it is all systems go again.

Take care. I'll report on the next stages if you can bear it! May even summon up a few photos if the weather improves.

[boatbear]

Hey DB, great to hear from you, and it is good to know you are back on deck.

re Back Troubles - have you got a good computer chair? I do a lot of CAD drafting and was constantly crippled - I tend to slump after a couple of hours. A friend donated a really good computer chair to the cause and now I can push that mouse all day. It really makes a difference. But this is off-topic and I don't want this thread to get into trouble ;o)

I look forward to progress pics. Hang in there, mate.
Charlie

[skuthorp]

I'm going to build a couple of skin on frame Greenland kayaks
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Greenland-Kayak/
and allow for a small batwing for downwind running. I'm told "good luck!" so I guess we'll see, eh?

[Todd Bradshaw]

Before you build a batwing for downwind use on a kayak, take a very serious look at the BSD Twins. This type of sail will offer you much better control than a batwing.

http://www.baloghsaildesigns.com/pro.html

[skuthorp]

That's very similar to the weathervaning stormsail you drew for the Macgreggor, which has been very successful incidentally. I built a bit more belly into it later and fly it as a sort of baloon spinnaker. Thanks Todd. Simpiler to build than the one I was considering.

[Pernicious Atavist]

She's alive! She's alive!

[DiamondBullet]

Dear All,

Thanks for contributing again! Nice to see you are all OK. We fitted the mast step and tried the mast last night. By the time we finished it was too dark to take a photo, so I'll do one at the next stage. The mast is good and upright and everything fitted well. I just had to taper the ends of the brass pins so they located more quickly for less fiddling on the water. I'm very pleased with the results. I also fitted some guy lines to the Spirit sail so we can use that if we want to just have a downwind sail. We will have to try this out in practice to see if it works but from just a try out it looks practicable.

Hoping to do some more on Sunday.

[Pernicious Atavist]

Guy lines? What--no gal lines? Hmmmm....

[DiamondBullet]

Dear All,

Quick update. A week ago when the weather decided to cheer up we trial fitted the sail to the mast. It looked pretty good but I found that I had omitted to sort the corner attachments which meant it slid around a bit! So I've drilled the spar to take the clips and have purchased some clips. I've also fitted eyes to the sail corners where it is reinforced with webbing. So the next stage is to refit with the sail and properly tie the rigging. I also bought a hitching point which I will attach to the base of the mast to tie any rope off at that point. We figured where to put the cleats and marked them, but the light faded. So things are still moving along, if a little slowly. I still haven't decided on the logo but I think we'll try it on the water before putting fancies on it.

All the best, Carole

[boatbear]

Better get a wiggle on Carole, or you will run out of summer. Looking forward to sea trial pics.

[DiamondBullet]

What summer! Looks more like autumn outside at the moment. Anyway, no holidays planned at the moment. Too much work!

All the best, Carole

[Pernicious Atavist]

Hi, Carole! I hope the Queen Mary sails well enough to justify your invested time! I think you should name your boat "Rome", because it wasn't built in a day!

Looking forward to those pics!

Ed

[Ahimsakid]

Good to hear that you've made progress! And thank you for asking about my efforts . . . while others may be running out of summer, I've only recently been able to get back into my workshop . . . finally cool enough to get busy!

Yes! Sea trial pics are what everyone want's to see :-)

[DiamondBullet]

More to report despite some grotty weather. We've nearly finished the leeboard frame. We threw out the idea with the windsurf frame and completely changed how it worked. Now we have a pivoting pole at the mast base which has two square section aluminium poles upon which the leeboards clamp using Todd's amazing wonderful clamps. My partner is just fitting the levers to these and we have to buy stainless locking nuts for the other ends of the stainless studding. We hoisted the sail a few days ago in the half light. Now the corners are attached it hangs very well and flat. There is the slightest crease in the forward bottom corner but I don't think it will affect it too much. Probably my efforts on sewing to blame!

The whole thing is quite heavy to hoist from a sitting position so I'm considering putting a pulley sheave in the masthead. We've put all the locking cleats on the kayak plus the pulleys for the sheet lines and these worked with the sail up. I want to buy a snap hook for the main line so I can quickly drop the sail in an emergency. We've also sorted all the cleats for the downwind sails.

The rudder extension is done but I won't paint it until we trial it. It is a removable extension so if we want straight paddling we can take it off. We have to sort the angle problem and we are considering mounting the pivot bolt further back to overcome this. It will be pretty simple to do.

I need to fit an attachment along the front of the kayak for the mast to be held in when put down and forward. I'm thinking a simple answer would be some webbing straps around the hull with velcro to just wrap around the mast.

I have to go to work now but I will add to this later. Nice to know your projects are underway again. Could do with a little heat here.

All the best, Carole

[DiamondBullet]

Second update. Spent this evening fine tuning the leeboard clamps, making a pin to attach the frame to the mast base and cutting studding to the correct length. I know you want to see piccies but firstly I want to get the thing fitted right and secondly we keep running out of light to get the kayak piccies in decent fettle. Once this is all up and worth looking at I will take a load of pictures (I reckon in about two weeks as this weekend we are not around). I bought a book on rope knots so I can get more proficient. Can't even take the kayak out at the moment as the truck is off the road with problems which we need also to sort. I hope Todd will like the set up when he sees it.

All the best, Carole

[Andrew]

Is there a graphic or verbal description of the Bradshaw clamps?

[DiamondBullet]

Yes, in his book on Canoe Sails and on our previous thread to this where I'm making this kayak sail. If you trawl through the archives you'll find it.

I'll put up photos as soon as I can.

All the best, Carole