Transom Lettering

[Concordia 33]

We are about to get the transom lettered on our newly restored Concordia Yawl. The recommendation by the person that will do this is to use vinyl letters instead of painting them on. What do forumites think...Vinyl or Paint: which makes the most sense?

Thanks

[paladin]

If you use vinyl you will be forever banned from the Woodenboat forum and ostracized forever.

[pcford]

That's one thing Chuck says with which I will agree.

Hand-drawn and painted names are far superior. No comparison.

Vinyl is tacky, tacky, tacky.

[dreyer]

Flicking the paint on with a spoon would be better than using vinyl letters.

[Concordia 33]

We agree. We are concerned because the painter that was recommended to us has pushed for vinyl. It just didn't seem right. We were told that the type would crack the first year as the boat settles. We are looking for confirmation of our suspicion that the painter is just doing what is easier- not better.

We need to find someone competent in southeastern MA. If anyone knows of someone please let us know.

Thanks
Sharon & Paul

[pcford]

We agree. We are concerned because the painter that was recommended to us has pushed for vinyl. It just didn't seem right. We were told that the type would crack the first year as the boat settles. We are looking for confirmation of our suspicion that the painter is just doing what is easier- not better.

We need to find someone competent in southeastern MA. If anyone knows of someone please let us know.

Thanks
Sharon & Paul

Asking around boatyards?

Though many (most) people are using nasty computer made vinyl letters there are still some traditional sign painters out there.

Should not have too much trouble.

[rbgarr]

I've had vinyl for ten years (fg sailboat) and it's fine as far as being color stable and not cracking. The main issue for me was getting a font I wanted and having the guy (a local sign maker) lay it out in a curve that complemented the small, raked, curved transom. He had a tough time with that but eventually got it right. I doubt I could have ordered it from an online source and been pleased with the result.

[pcford]

I've had vinyl for ten years (fg sailboat) and it's fine as far as being color stable and not cracking. The main issue for me was getting a font I wanted and having the guy (a local sign maker) lay it out in a curve that complemented the small, raked, curved transom. He had a tough time with that but eventually got it right. I doubt I could have ordered it from an online source and been pleased with the result.

(hanging my head and shaking it....)

YOU had to instruct the vinyl lettering guy how to set the letters?

What did you pay him for? Printing out the letters?

Getting a good composition of the name is how the painter makes his money. On some transoms it is not easy. But the owner should not have to do it!!!

[paladin]

There are several folks that have advertised in the past in WB magazine, and they travel. I had a lady travel from somewhere in New England to do my boat when I sAILED INTO mANNESQUAN iNLET AND DECIDED TO SIT AND DO SOME TOUCH UP WORK (SORRY FOR THE LARGE FONT, BANGED THE KEYBOARD AGAIN)...The charges were reasonable for the work and it was a beautiful job...gold leaf.

[rbgarr]

(hanging my head and shaking it....)

YOU had to instruct the vinyl lettering guy how to set the letters?

What did you pay him for? Printing out the letters?

Getting a good composition of the name is how the painter makes his money. On some transoms it is not easy. But the owner should not have to do it!!!

He never saw the boat or transom so I brought my own layout, if that's the right term, and then applied the letters myself. I'm not sure what you mean by composition. The boat's name is only one word and it took him about five minutes to custom match the curve. The 'difficulty' was that he'd not done it before on his computer since he'd only used the standard curves offered in the 'menu' before. The guy is an excellent sign painter and paints names on transoms for a lot of boatyards around here. I just didn't have the money to spend on that and he was perfectly happy to oblige.
I enjoy watching him work. I only wish I had as steady a hand as he!

[pcford]

The guy is an excellent sign painter and paints names on transoms for a lot of boatyards around here. !

A client once insisted that I get vinyl letters on a his boat which I was managing.

It would have been cheaper to have it painted....but he wanted vinyl.

Different strokes, I s'pose.

[rbgarr]

I paid $10 for the vinyl lettering. I really doubt he would have painted it for that.

[pcford]

I paid $10 for the vinyl lettering. I really doubt he would have painted it for that.

Cost for applying state numbers both sides, hand lettered, $35.

People always think it is way more expensive than it actually is.

Gold leaf and other fancy work, of course, is more

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I agree, I think Gold leaf is the absolute best. That said, I use vinyl in gold leaf pattern, with a dark blue shadow. The V in Vanora is almost 13 inches high, and the name is about 3 feet long. (Powerboat transom, finished bright.) I find it looks good, and it only cost about 140 dollars including port of call. It is in a Victorian writing font, and there isn't a hope in hell I could get it done by a sign painter for that price. It also helps that when I do a serious revarnish every four years or so, I don't feel like I am breaking the bank to get new letters.

[Bob Cleek]

After all the work you've done on that boat, I can't imagine you'd leave the crowning touch to somebody else. Paint it yourself! Really.

Easy! Print out your letters in whatever font you want on your 'puter. Use these as patterns. You can score the paper with a ponce wheel and dust it with a chalk bag if you are a purist, or just tape them up and do the outline with a grease pencil (which will wipe off when everything is dry.)

Use 1/4" Scotch fine line tape to define the tops and bottoms of letters and the sides if you are a bit shakey. The serifs you do with the brush freehand.

Use "One Shot" lettering paint, available at any decent art supply store. This stuff has lots of pigment and will cover in one brush stroke. Buy a decent lettering brush while you are at it.

If you are a total artistic klutz, you should be able to find some friend that has a steady hand to do the painting for you. If you get really adventurous, you can even paint with sizing and apply patent gold leaf (made for gilding in the wind). Then you outline the letters with a thin band of color, using the "tape crutch" method above. Sure, the pros make it look easy doing it freehand with a lettering brush and a signpainter's stick, but at the end of the day, nobody's going to know the difference. It'll just take you longer than it does the pro.

And, under no circumstances ever use vinyl letters! Really!

[BETTY-B]

A friend of mine is going to print me the name in opposite for BETTY-B. And I was just going to use it as masking. The style is just old block lettering with very little flair anyways.

Hey, does anyone know how to take off gold in an arrow on the side of the boat? My friend just found some under paint on his Sparkman and Stephens and doesnt want to mess up the crisp carving by sanding in there.

DAN

[pcford]

I don't get it. Spend all that time restoring a boat and then put a computer print-out on the rear end. why why why?

The transom of a runabout typically costs a few hundred dollars to do with the name in gold leaf, shade and outline. The full meal deal.

Dan, dude......the guy I use to do names is looking for work. Maybe a road trip to Port Townsend could be arranged. Get me some details and I will get a quote for you.

Trying to save you from yourself.

[BETTY-B]

Dude, I'm not permanently putting vinyl on the boat. I was going to use the inverse of an exact replica of what was there long ago as masking. You know? Paint without going over the lines? I have a friend with the machine that could give me those inverses for free is why I thought it would be a good idea.
Here's what it looked like for nearly 65 years:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d10/Bridgedeck/BETTY-B/OldPics/scan0001.jpg

[pcford]

Dude, I'm not permanently putting vinyl on the boat. I was going to use the inverse of an exact replica of what was there long ago as masking. You know? Paint without going over the lines? I have a friend with the machine that could give me those inverses for free is why I thought it would be a good idea.
Here's what it looked like for nearly 65 years:



Well, it seems that it is your boat.

What I can't understand is why people put time and money into a boat and then, at the last possible moment, slap on some vinyl letters. Should be the crowning glory, not an afterthought.

[BETTY-B]

What? Are you seeing what I'm saying? I'm trying to match the historical lettering. I'm no artistic paint brush master. BETTY-B has always been a down and dirty kind of yacht. Gold leaf with beautiful,flowing lettering might take her wrong side of the track appeal away. Well, that new aft deck is pretty darn yachty. Hehe. All I know is I'm near broke and she is damn close to splashing. There will be plenty of time to figure it out over a beer at anchor....

DAN

[Jay Greer]

Among the various areas I work in with boats, I am a sign painter and a ship carver. I do names on transoms when the occasion arises. No matter how good a set of vinyl letters are, I can spot them from halfway across the bay! Don't send your daughter to the prom wearing a plastic corsage!
Jay

[pcford]

What? Are you seeing what I'm saying? I'm trying to match the historical lettering. I'm no artistic paint brush master. BETTY-B has always been a down and dirty kind of yacht.

She's looking pretty darn good to me. Was not criticizing you (and empty pockets is an expected and reasonable excuse at this point in the restoration.) as much as those that mindlessly slap on vinyl letters and think nobody will notice. See Jay G's comments above.

[BETTY-B]

I know you're not. I'm just saying that the only reason vinyl would be on there for a couple hours would be to use it as masking. Are you saying it will look bad when the masking is removed? I just thought it would be an easy way for a guy to get an exact look without takling an art class in proper lettering techniques...

DAN

ADDED: Hell, maybe I am good at lettering already? I've never done it. If I can stand one more day in the yard, I might go for it...

[C. Ross]

Vinyl STENCILS not vinyl LETTERS? Whew. I love your pictures of Betty-B, she's fabulous. Good on you for matching the original lettering.

[BETTY-B]

That's the word I wasnt even looking for! Duh!. Stencils. Thanks man.

[Bob Perkins]

BETTY-B,

I'm glad you brought up the use of vinyl stencils (after a few tries..). I had the exact same idea. I'm a few weeks away from having to put a name on my boat too.

I want to get a sign shop to cut a vinyl stencil - then put it on transom - add gold leaf. presto..

But - If anyone listening can recommend someone to do a transom in gold leaf - say within 150 miles of Boston? I'd gladly give them a call.

PC's guy is just far of a drive ;)

[Concordia...41]

I found the gentleman who did SARAH's by looking for hand-painted lettering on service trucks. I saw one I liked and in little letters on the bottom right was "Bill T."

Bill T turned out to be Bill Trautwig, who was in the phone book under signs. :)

Also look for well-done business signs - hand carved wood signs. You probably pass several a day. That's a sign (pun intended) of a real sign maker vs a vinyl lettering guy.

I had SARAH's done back in 2001 to mark our 1st anniversary with her. The transom cracked during her time out of the water, but the lettering is just fine.

Cheers!

- M
Edited to add:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8df02b3127cceb4ba7da269b200000035108BYtG7lsxbq

Granted, I had this done way back before I had a grasp of Concordia sensibilities :eek:

It was when I saw this picture that I realized if SARAH rafted off to one of the other grand dames of the fleet, well, she'd look a little .... tawdry :(

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de9ce87d7c00000016108BYtG7lsxbq

[Concordia...41]

For everyone's Sunday morning viewing pleasure, here are some other Concordia transoms :)

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de99383d3600000015108BYtG7lsxbq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de9e1d7d8800000016108BYtG7lsxbq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de9f8f3d8200000016108BYtG7lsxbq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de9ceffc4b00000016108BYtG7lsxbq

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da01b3127ccea8de9cec7d7800000016108BYtG7lsxbq

[Bob Perkins]

Nice pics - goes good w/my coffee this am.

[C. Ross]

Oh...my. Beautiful.
Sarah is a celebrity. She deserves a big marquee and top billing!

[shark_ef]

the scale might be a little off, but i've been tasked with re-doing (re painting sanding etc) sign boards...which go on and off with several screws...but on smaller boats they aren't that common...is it a sizing thing? cuz it sure was nice to do all the fancy lettering flat and on the non-moving dock and then just screwing them in place
-i second the doing you own...it isn't as hard as it seems...and you can always keep a paint rag to wipe mistakes away

[MiddleAgesMan]

I watched painters put names on two of my boats and neither one free-handed it. They both used a rod with a rubber ball affixed to to one end. Hold the ball-stick in the left hand (if you're right handed) with the ball resting on the transom. The stick serves as a rest for the right hand. Paint what is in easy reach then re-position the stick-ball in small increments until the lettering is complete.

Edit to add--I just noticed the guy working on Irene above is using the stick-ball technique to steady his hand.

[Willin']

At the risk of riling the usual deep pocket purists, I have to agree with RBGarr on this one. I, like most members of my generation, still cringe at the word 'plastic', yet my boat, much to my dismay, came with vinyl letters on the transom...

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/bauerdad/IMG_1553.jpg

While it wouldn't have been my first choice, at 6 or 7 years old they show no sign of cracking or lifting, and I like the style and size. The obvious limitation is that I can't varnish over them, adding a little effort to keeping the brightwork up in the spring.

If I had a million dollars I'd scrape them off, wood the transom, bleach out the tan lines, build up a base of CPES and varnish, spend hours or possibly days locating a qualified painter that would come to my home to do the job, build up the final coats of varnish and probably launch by September or October.

Unfortunately, I blew my wad buying the boat so I have to pick and chose and prioritize what gets done, when and by who.

My advice is do what your budget and your pride will allow.

If my tawdry transom offends the senses and sensabilities of someone from halfway across the bay, that's their problem.

Sorry to preach, but it's elitist drivel like this that scares people away from wooden boats.

[Lew Barrett]

I beg to differ. It's not elitist drivel, it's a question of what looks good to you and also a matter of taste. Sign painting is hardly what makes the difference between keeping a wooden boat or not. If wooden boats required the same maintenance regimen and ease of annual fitting out as those made of other materials, everyone would own one. Indeed, the economics would work more in their favor. That's what makes wood the decision that it is;you buy one either because you can afford the initial entry price, or because you value the qualities and the work doesn't put you off. Perhaps a bit of both in some cases. In respect to the name and hailing port, the same dichotomy and the same decision needs to be made with any boat.
And, to quote Tim Robbins (Shawshank Redemption): " Red, if you've gotten this far, why not go a little further?"
Elitist? It takes all kinds, but some of the best people I know own wooden boats. Dig a bit deeper.
Calling the sign painter takes ten minutes. And varnish is varnish.


I think the vinyl sentcil idea is OK but remember that you'll need to do the shadow or outline by hand. Gold leaf won't work without an outline, and a painted name (apart from black block style as Dan is after in the quest for historical accuracy) looks better with an outline too.
I like name boards myself, but have the the hand painted option on my boat. Maybe for the Hvalsoe. Hmm....

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Yep, some of the comments here are good reasons why I don't belong to wooden boat clubs, and don't go to wooden boat shows, or at least I might go without my boat and say nothing. This place has a dandy chunk of elitism most of the time, but that's nothing new.

[erster]

If you use vinyl you will be forever banned from the Woodenboat forum and ostracized forever.
The last time this issue came up, I was also ostersized[sp for all of those spelling nazis] . :p PC made a special effort to imform me how un-pc I truzzs. After seeking out and dealing with issues to find sign painters and because I ain't one, I still wanted gold leaf and have provided 22ct. gold with black trim on every named vessel. I also varnish over it with no issues. I do not baby any hull and sometimes I also forget that every two years the varnish needs to be done. Of course, all these hulls are trailable boats even though they probably get more abuse and use than many of the in water boats, especially for those of you that have six weeks of summer.:D Oh, I also do not belong to yacht clubs and Loyal Order of the Wooden Boat Snobs either, mainly because I have been known to use plywood, 5200 and epoxy too on occasions.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC05328.jpg

[Concordia...41]

Ah come on Peter - It's not elitist, it's OC. ;)

[Bob Cleek]

There is no reason to try to use vinyl as a stencil material. There has long been a specific material made for the purpose. It is called "frisket" and is available at art supply stores. Frisket is most frequently used when air brushing to define sharp lines. It is, essentially, a sheet of plastic backed with an adhesive something like what you find on "Post-it" notes, easily applied, positioned and then removed. Comes in various sized sheets and is transparent. You stick the frisket over the area you are painting and use an x-acto knife to cut away the area you want to paint and then remove it, leaving the surrounding area masked. You can also place frisket on top of your master pattern, cut away as required, remove the rest of the frisket and reposition it where you want to paint. Simple.

[Bob Triggs]

There is no reason to try to use vinyl as a stencil material. There has long been a specific material made for the purpose. It is called "frisket" and is available at art supply stores. Frisket is most frequently used when air brushing to define sharp lines. It is, essentially, a sheet of plastic backed with an adhesive something like what you find on "Post-it" notes, easily applied, positioned and then removed. Comes in various sized sheets and is transparent. You stick the frisket over the area you are painting and use an x-acto knife to cut away the area you want to paint and then remove it, leaving the surrounding area masked. You can also place frisket on top of your master pattern, cut away as required, remove the rest of the frisket and reposition it where you want to paint. Simple.

It seems like Dan could use the lettering over the Frisket to create the outline of the letters he wants, then incise the lettering outline out of the Frisket,(thus removing the lettering from the surface), and then go ahead using the Frisket as the stencil.

[Bob Triggs]

I watched painters put names on two of my boats and neither one free-handed it. They both used a rod with a rubber ball affixed to to one end. Hold the ball-stick in the left hand (if you're right handed) with the ball resting on the transom. The stick serves as a rest for the right hand. Paint what is in easy reach then re-position the stick-ball in small increments until the lettering is complete.

Edit to add--I just noticed the guy working on Irene above is using the stick-ball technique to steady his hand.

Actually this technique is considered free-hand lettering. My dad used to do firetruck and tow truck lettering and gold leaf work as a sideline to his industrial illustration art career. When you use a stencil to work within, sticking it up to the surface to be lettered and painting that in etc, then you are not exactly working free hand. But even the free-hand artist will lay things out with a scale and some kind of base marking like a colored pencil.

The stick and ball just supports the hand off of the work. And just about every lettering artist, signpainter of old, and many other painting artists, still use this tool.

BTW: If you go and ask at your local firehouse, (and make sure that the work on the trucks was done freehand to begin with), you will get the name of a good lettering and gold leaf artist. To those who think that hand applied paint and gold leaf and laquer wont hold up to a boat environment as well as vinyl I say: Find me a 100 year old vinyl lettering job.

[anniebskipper]

I love it when I learn somethig new each day. My boat came with vinyl lettering that I removed and replaced with vinyl lettering and have since varnished over. Once by mistake using amber cetol that I removed and replaced with clear at the price of less UV protection. Carved lettering would have done in the plywood! A carved board would stand proud and look tacked on, or so I thought

Cheers

Chris.

[pcford]

I watched painters put names on two of my boats and neither one free-handed it. They both used a rod with a rubber ball affixed to to one end. .

It's called a mahl stick and all sign painters use them.


PC made a special effort to imform me how un-pc I truzzs.
erster has mentioned my name but I have no idea what his post meant.

By the way, the work on Irene's transom looks particularly fine.

[erster]

It's called a mahl stick and all sign painters use them.

erster has mentioned my name but I have no idea what his post meant.

By the way, the work on Irene's transom looks particularly fine.

I did not think that you would, but I do about the time that you and several others was slamming my name board for my round stern which I also used the same lettering after the building process.

FWIW, anniebskipper, the raised board also allows you to paint the hull without dealing with the issues of relettering too. I admit that my boat is not some pedigree. But there are ways to add touches to any hull built, of course from an individual owner's perspective. As I stated in another thread dealing with the scorning of people that do ask questions stemming from personal reasons such as avaliability of sign painters, there are instances that one much adapt to their own situation. Telling an individual that there boat and choices are tacky is surely not in the standard of helping someone on this forum either.:eek:

My previous encounter included my own name board for my round stern. Photo for a quick reminder;;;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/popsicleenlargednameboard.jpg

09-05-2006, 01:08 PM
Well said sir. I do not understand why people use computer generated vinyl lettering. Tacky, tacky, tacky. And not much, if any savings. Crazy.


09-05-2006, 11:21 PM

Yep. People just don't understand these fine points. A computer will do a pretty good job of kerning the letters, but a good sign painter can do it better.

I've said it before, I don't know why anyone would go to the trouble a restoring an antique boat and then hang machine made vinyl on it.
An atrocity.
Also, good old-fashioned sign painters are hurting for work these days, they will work pretty cheap. Nobody knows the difference between quality and cccccrrrraaaapppp.


This is what happened the last time that I recall your ranting about lettering boats to an inquiry, and the followup





http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 09-07-2006, 07:47 AM


http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/image.php?u=9097&dateline=1153102673 (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/member.php?u=9097)Texas Boater (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/member.php?u=9097) http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_1375133", true);


Senior Member


Join Date: Oct 2004


Location: 2957997N / 09505111W


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Obviously, there is a lot of emotion concerning this issue and as usual, personal opinions run rampant. However, I think it is wrong to besmirch another’s vessel because their use of signage.



Not every boat owner has access to artisan sign painters and/or the budget to employ one. Some folks never doubt the limits of their own skills and successfully rise to every challenge. Some fail miserably but revel in their courage to accept the challenge. And others appreciate their own limits and employ the talents of others they can find and afford.



We should respect all three equally.





[/quote]

[pcford]

shrug.

[BETTY-B]

So, does anyone know how to remove gold leaf in an area where sanding and scraping is too risky in messing up the fine carving? Jasco didnt do anything.

DAN

[pcford]

So, does anyone know how to remove gold leaf in an area where sanding and scraping is too risky in messing up the fine carving? Jasco didnt do anything.

DAN

Don't understand, Dan. Can't you just paint over it? If the leaf has deteriorated, but is still adhering well and you want to regild it....I would think you could just apply the size and the leaf over it.

But I am not an expert....though I play one on the internets.

[paladin]

My apologies to all if I sounded "Elitest" in any way....it was a tongue in cheek remark....However....personal opinion....when one has invested so much time and energy in a project, it would appear a minor detail to complete the job to the best of your ability and finances. I know that many folks put their entire heart into these projects and that finances run a bit short, so do whatever it takes to get out and onto the water, but use care in making the craft ready construction wise...

[Concordia...41]

So, does anyone know how to remove gold leaf in an area where sanding and scraping is too risky in messing up the fine carving? Jasco didnt do anything.

DAN

I can see why you wouldn't want to scrap a carving, but I can take a gnat off a baby's butt with sand paper and a fine touch. :confused:

Now this is a b---- of a carving to sand :eek:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d700b3127ccebcb81770d8ef00000026108BYtG7lsxbq

But what I did was use 3M fine-line tape on the hull (this isn't mine, mine's painted with numerous coats of whatever over the years), and then carefully with little folded slivers of sandpaper (180-220) sanded it out.

[BETTY-B]

Wooo. That is some fine detail alright. And you're right. Some patience is what is really needed here.

I just called him. He says the paint is coming off real well and that he is going to try and save the gold. It has yellow then blue followed by white paint over it!?!? Why in the world would....ahhh whatever...

It's defintily a spectacular Sparkman and Stephens that would look proper with some gold.

Thanks Margo.

DAN

[erster]

My apologies to all if I sounded "Elitest" in any way....it was a tongue in cheek remark....However....personal opinion....when one has invested so much time and energy in a project, it would appear a minor detail to complete the job to the best of your ability and finances. I know that many folks put their entire heart into these projects and that finances run a bit short, so do whatever it takes to get out and onto the water, but use care in making the craft ready construction wise...
Well my comments were in the same manner, but have also been subjected to the same attacks when not going the route of hand doing names. I think I addressed the reasons that I also went the alternative route and also addressed the context that supported my reply.
I understand that we are talking about special and selected sailboats. But there are the top of the line hulls in powerboats with all wood transoms that have used both methods for names, even though they may not be to your likings. I will not list makers as its of no importance. Scorn if you wish. But to scorn anyone that dare asks the question with replies, discounting numerous sets of circumstances, and in most cases its not an issue of money is surely Elitest.

Now back to your regular programming.

[Concordia 33]

Hi,
Paul and I really appreciate all the comments on the forum. The Concordia Yawl is our first (and hopefully last) boat. We have no prior experience with many of the details that come with owning a classic wooden boat. We are not at all offended by any of the comments made and take them in the spirit that they were offered.

We had concerns right away when we were encouraged to use vinyl. We have tried to be as meticulous with all details throughout the restoration. She is going to be completely restored with a major refit by May. It seemed wrong to get this far and not finish her properly. There is just something about wood and there is just something about paint. Maybe it is the romantics in us but we want to attempt to get as close to her original condition as possible.

Lots of great discussion here. Lots of passion too. We definitely asked the right people for advice.

Thanks to all,
Sharon and Paul

[rbgarr]

I wouldn't put vinyl letters on a Concordia either.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Well there you go, I just have a plain old Chris Craft. Doesn't matter.:D

[Lew Barrett]

Nah, Peter, don't blame it on the boat. You cheaped out:D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Yet another reason not to go to Antique boat shows. I just can't measure up. Oops, wait, don't give a shiit.

[erster]

Yet another reason not to go to Antique boat shows. I just can't measure up. Oops, wait, don't give a shiit.
Why go to antique shows or own antiques when I am already a relic and require on going maintainance too to look pretty. :D Measure up you say> Heck I am beginning to measure out!!!!:D

[Jay Greer]

The offer always stands. Fly me, wine me, dine me and you get a work of art either carved or painted in gold leaf to grace your fine little ship.
Jay

[Lew Barrett]

Can't beat that. Jay will work for food! And you'll get a pro job!

[Todd D]

Personally I find nothing wrong with well done vinyl. I often use 22 ct gold leaf on vinyl for both lettering and cove stripes. Of course, I work on pretty small boats and have my own computer driven vinyl cutter :)

That said, a sign shop that does vinyl almost always stocks masking film that they can cut the letters into for you. A decent sign maker can easily compensate for the curvature of your transom. Incidentally, you can do outlines with masks. you just have to do the job in two or more stages. Just have the masking for all stages cut at the same time.

[Bob Cleek]

Erster, your vinyl lettering looks quite nice. You don't have to apologize for it or get all defensive. I think the point others were really trying to make is that a custom lettering job does look more "special." That's all.

Now, if you were going to ever replace those letters, why not consider having a signpainter put this on your transom:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Popsicle-rogo.jpg/180px-Popsicle-rogo.jpg

[BrianM]

I am a rank amateur. I have the artistic flair of a cat. Not knowing I was doing it all
wrong (I used an ordinary utility knife as found at any hardware store), I just picked a
font I liked in Microsoft Word, printed it out 1:1, and carved these number boards:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d738b3127ccebce9a66ae4c900000036100FZsWrly3Ym
Mind you, much of this carving was done on my recliner in the living room while
we got our "American Idol" fix. I carved so slowly, we went through 3 weeks of a season
to get it done. The lumber is just ordinary "pine" as found at big box.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d738b3127ccebce9bfdb25dc00000036100FZsWrly3Ym
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d738b3127ccebce9b01c658400000036100FZsWrly3Ym

You can print the letters out on clear "overhead projector" slide material.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d738b3127ccebc96f7afc47700000036100FZsWrly3Ym
The "After" shot. Excuse the wooded hull.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d738b3127ccebce9aefd656a00000036100FZsWrly3Ym

The "white" is actually Kilz latex primer. It's supposed to accept oil based once cured.
I never go around to painting with a white oil base, and it still looks fine after 5 years (2
of which were in punishing San Diego sun).

I believe with no prior experience, you could do a proper job of carving your
boats name in her transom. Or you can make up a name board at home while watching
yet more American Idol and screw it onto your transom at your leasure.
Take your time, plan it, its mostly in the layout. It's a fun project so don't get intimidated.
Gold Leaf of course to compliment your hard work.

[Jay Greer]

I commend you for your excellent work! You might want to explore further into carving Roman Letters by working with a 90 Deg. Vee Gouge.
Jay

[C. Ross]

Brian
Beautiful. Best thing ever to come out of American Idol. Gives me courage to carve my boat number once CG Documentation papers arrive.

[G.Sherman]

I get roll vinyl form Sign Warehouse and use the computer to generate
the lettering in reverse. An exacto blade and some patience gets you some reasonalbly good looking letters.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/Gaz02026/PICT0060-1.jpg

Fancier transom lettering was done the same way with the same black vinyl and some reflective gold sheet vinyl.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/Gaz02026/PICT0061.jpg

Even if they fail, once you have your templates, there is usually enough
material left over to last for years.

[G.Sherman]

I get roll vinyl from Sign Warehouse and use the computer to generate
the lettering in reverse. An exacto blade and some patience gets you some reasonalbly good looking letters.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/Gaz02026/PICT0060-1.jpg

Fancier transom lettering was done the same way with the same black vinyl and some reflective gold sheet vinyl.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/Gaz02026/PICT0061.jpg

Even if they fail, once you have your templates, there is usually enough
material left over to last for years.

[Robmill0605]

On my Hacker replica project, I'm going to try doing it myself with real gold leaf .
HANNA should not be too hard to do. It doesn't even enter my mind to use anything else after almost 1500 hrs of hard work.

I like the " don't send your daughter to the prom with a plastic corsage"
well said.

[S.V. Airlie]

I have used both on Uncas... First the plastic stuff and the second time gold leaf. I had no trouble with either one.. Of course Uncas wasn't a Concordia..;)
With a old faashioned transom, it was hard to see the lettering in either case. Out of the sun meant the plastic didn't crack.
Personally, I could not tell the difference except from 5" away.

Now with gold at its current price, I may have to go with the plastic again but it wil be faux gold leaf with probably a white border. Airlie's transom is varnished was was Uncas'.
Will see.

[Lew Barrett]

Without any desire to insult, and with no slam at any of the fine existing examples, I can see a difference. If it matters is a matter to be decided by each person. Horses for courses, as they say.
Is this important in the grand scheme of things? No. It's just a discussion of fine points, and something to have fun with when not worrying about the price of rice. But can an observer see the difference? I can.

Nice name board!

[Concordia...41]

Robmill - when you get ready to take the plunge [pun intended] pull up my "Gold Leafing for Dummies?" thread.

As always with this Forum, there was great advice :), a spirited discussion on varieties of gold leaf:rolleyes:, good information on suppliers, etc.

Seems like I bought a kit ($40 bucks or so) that had the sizing, yellow paint, leaf, etc. Basically just enough to make me dangerous :D

BTW - don't try it on a windy day DAMHIKT :rolleyes: :(

[Robmill0605]

Robmill - when you get ready to take the plunge [pun intended] pull up my "Gold Leafing for Dummies?" thread.

As always with this Forum, there was great advice :), a spirited discussion on varieties of gold leaf:rolleyes:, good information on suppliers, etc.

Seems like I bought a kit ($40 bucks or so) that had the sizing, yellow paint, leaf, etc. Basically just enough to make me dangerous :D

BTW - don't try it on a windy day DAMHIKT :rolleyes: :(


Thanks! I'll do that. Even if it's not perfect, it should be fun to do.

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

OK, I was going to start my own thread on a related topic, but, maybe I can hitch a ride here?

How can you remove vinyl lettering without damaging frozen snot? Yea, yea, I know... "how about a hammer and chisel?"

I'd heard that Easy Off oven cleaner could be used. It did take off some left-over glue from some old lettering that had been removed already. However, it just took the color off the vinyl. Here is what is plastered on both sides of the boat... now, you'll know why I'm so keen to get it off!

http://www.greatsoftware.net/sailing/Ripples.jpg

Would a heat gun (normally used for stripping varnish) work?

[easterngray]

3M makes a rubber wheel that you chuck in your batt. powered drill - removes vinyl lettering in a jiffy. Than use some "Goof Off" to remove any left over adhesive.

Not only are my letters vinyl... they're crooked. :) Alec

[Concordia...41]

Michael !!!!!

Holy Freaking Crap!!!!!

OK, let me quit laughing...

I've not had vinyl letters that didn't easily peel off with a wave of a heat gun and my finger nail. That being said, the dock box is a horizontal surface that's probably gotten more UV damage than the boat sides. Plus you've already gotten after it with with Easy Off :eek:.

Whatever you do (and I suggest the heat-gun approach), you'll want to use a little Aqua-Buff or similar 3M product with a buffer because there's going to be a shadow on where the letters were.

BTW - Things like Easy Off, Pledge (some folks use it to clean Eisenglass), and Soft Scrub have no place in your boat cleaning materials!

Keep us posted!

Cheers!

P.S. I saved that picture under "Things Not to Do" :D

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

Thanks Alec and Margo,

I knew there had to be an easier way.

I promise that the rest of my boat cleaning materials have always been "green"! The Easy Off was just a recommendation from a guy that did this for a living.

I can see a shadow on the transom where the original name had been, so I'll look for the Aqua-Buff before I do any re-lettering (probably vinyl!)

Hey, I'm going to be in Florida soon, though, unfortunately, not near St. Augustine. A friend has asked me to crew on a delivery of his gaff schooner from Key West to NYC. Yee-ha!