"If I started with a box" - Thought experiment

[jtrieck]

If I had a drawn a boat that was nothing more than a box 14' long, 72" wide, and 18" deep and my goal is to provide good standing stability for a fly fisherman, shallow draft, and a planing hull, what would be the first design alteration?

The boat would be used in small protected waters and slow moving rivers (<= Class I) and powered by a small outboard motor, a downstream- facing oarsman (for positioning in the river, not actually going anywhere), and electric trolling motor .

[kenjamin]

Why change anything???:rolleyes:

http://ford.physics.fsu.edu/tableboat.jpg

[Thorne]

Google 'garvey'...lots of good designs.

As for additions, a leg / waist brace for standing to fish, similar to what they put on River Dories

[AngWood]

A wineglass transom. No--sorry. I'd say first add some rocker.

[johngsandusky]

I'd sweep the bottom up at the bow, maybe tuck the sides in a little there too.

[Paul Pless]

As for additions, an ice chest;)

[Caleb Chia]

Starting with a box with dead flat bottom and the bow out of the water, am I right in assuming the total drag can be calculated from the skin friction and the angle at which the boat is moving through the water? (+the windage and assuming flat water)
So if the bottom has zero friction, and you are planing along at a flat angle, you can go at an infinite speed limited only by air resistance?

[openboater]

put rocker in the bow, put a point on the bow,

ahhhhhh, just build one of these

http://www.instantboats.com/skiff15.htm

[Steve Paskey]

If I had a drawn a boat that was nothing more than a box 14' long, 72" wide, and 18" deep and my goal is to provide good standing stability for a fly fisherman, shallow draft, and a planing hull, what would be the first design alteration?

The boat would be used in small protected waters and slow moving rivers (<= Class I) and powered by a small outboard motor, a downstream- facing oarsman (for positioning in the river, not actually going anywhere), and electric trolling motor .

Phil Bolger has been there and done that a LONG time ago. It's called Skimmer. See: www.instantboats.com/skimmer.htm

His version is 8 feet long and 4 feet wide. It's nothing more than a box, with some rocker on the forward end and an angled bow transom.

There's no reason why you couldn't build a longer version of Skimmer. But I wouldn't make it 6 feet wide as you suggest. It would be plenty stable at 4, and at 4 feet wide you could use the full width of a 4x8 sheet of ply on the bottom.

[Tom Robb]

Cupholders, lotsa cupholders, and maybe a boombox.

[Don Maurer]

Flare the sides, bow and transom. You will need about 15 degrees of angle on the transom for an outboard. Flaring the sides will give you reserve stability. Now if you make the bow a little narrower than the stern and bend the sides around to meet it it will automatically introduce some rocker. What you end up with is a jon boat, which is what you were looking for in the first place.

[JimD]

Starting with a box, build a second box:

http://www.riverbills.com/pic_of_the_day/062105_redneck_bass_boat.jpg

[boylesboats]

While you are fooling around with a box 14' long, 72" wide, and 18" deep.. Might as well look here (http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_cana.html) and save yourself a bunch of troubles
http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_cana.html

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I could point you to a 14' x 62" Garvey that weighs about 150 and draws 5" of water. The same hull comes in a 16' length, same width, is a little heavier and still draws 5" of water. Interested?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Starting with a box, build a second box:

http://www.riverbills.com/pic_of_the_day/062105_redneck_bass_boat.jpg

I don't think this dude was up to building boxes. I think those pink things are stacks of pink building insulation. Perfectly simple, simply perfect.

[kengrome]

Hi jtrieck,

I've noticed that you've started 7 new thread during the past few days -- yet you only followed up by posting a second time in one of them -- and you've never said 'thank you' to anyone who has gone out if his way to help you:

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1111636

I'm curious ...

Do your seemingly unrelated threads have a common goal? In other words, are you focused on something in particular -- one type of boat for example, or a boating trip you might like to take some day?

By the way, here's a friendly suggestion to help you get more out of these forums ...

Some people invest invest a lot of their time trying to help people like you who post thoughtful questions, and it is really much nicer when you acknowledge their free support by saying 'thank you' once in a while -- especially in the threads you've started yourself.

:)

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Glad you resurrected that pic Kenjamin, it was the first thing that sprang to my mind when reading the initial post.

Bottoms don't come any flatter than that, do they? Something about the audacity expressed in that photo, "who needs a boat?" that really gets me.

Moby Nick

[Rigadog]

Regardless of how we start, we all end in a box....:confused:

[jtrieck]

Thanks for all your responses - I didn't realize the posters would keep checking back! I figured I would basically end up with a jon boat, but I wondered if some of the creative types would have a twist.

The table idea might have some potential....!

[kengrome]

Thanks for all your responses - I didn't realize the posters would keep checking back!I think most of us get an email every time a new post is added to a thread we have posted in. I know I do. This keeps me informed about the discussion so I can join in again if I want to. It is always nice to hear from the thread creator after his first post, too. Thanks for coming back! :)

I figured I would basically end up with a jon boat, but I wondered if some of the creative types would have a twist.Well, I designed this boat to be the cheapest and easiest plywood boat to build which meets the needs of a former potential client. Unfortunately the guy changes his mind so often that he may never have a boat, but this will still be a good one -- for someone else:


http://www.bagacayboatworks.com/linkfiles/bassboat15-67.jpg


I immodestly refer to this boat as the "Ken Grome Bass Boat" ... http://pinoyboats.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

It has a garvey-type vee bottom forward that transitions to a flat bottom amidships, and the bottom is completely flat from the midship position all the way to the transom. In other words you can walk on this bottom -- comfortably -- which eliminates the need for a raised sole/floor and its associated hassle and expense.

This boat uses only 4 sheets of plywood for the bottom and sides, with as few joints as possible. The bottom is 4 feet wide and the side panels are adjusted to get the most out of standard plywood sheets. Side and bottom panels are butt-joined to make construction as easy as possible.

Another 4 sheets of plywood will take care of the transom, box seats along each side, gunwales, splash well aft, casting deck forward, and other odds and ends, most of which are not shown in this drawing. A few sticks of lumber will provide the bottom strakes, chine logs (if used), gunwales, etc.

Note that the as-yet-invisible box seats along the sides will add all the structural support the boat needs. Seats like these also allow passengers to move forward and aft so they can sit exactly where they might be needed -- for best speed or fuel economy or handling -- depending upon the specific goal at that time. Box seats also provide plenty of lockable storage inside them, and they encourage people to walk on the boat's centerline -- which is exactly where their weight should be located when moving around in the boat for safety's sake.

For economy this boat can be built using epoxy and glass tape only on the joints. For even greater economy the fiberglass can be eliminated completely, with chine logs and other reinforcements substituting for the glass.

dimensions:
---------------------------------
length = 15' 6"
beam at gunwales = 5' 4"
beam at bottom = 4' 0"
height at bowstem = 2' 6"
lowest side height = 1' 7.5"
height at transom = 1' 9.5"

displacements:
---------------------------------
595 pounds @ 3" draft
1335 pounds @ 6" draft
2155 pounds @ 9" draft

This boat will weight 250-350 pounds depending upon how it is built. Use less epoxy and glass for a lighter boat. It will last a very long time even when using the least costly construction method if you just dry it out well in between uses and store it in a dry place out of the sun -- under a tarp is fine if you provide for sufficient ventilation and air flow.

The boat will easily haul 6 people around safely in good conditions, but they won't be able to move around much. For fishing trips 2 will be comfortable, 3 may be acceptable, and 4 will feel crowded. The transom can be cut down to the proper height for the outboard chosen by the owner. Just keep the outboard relatively small and light weight, certainly no more than 40-50 HP. I suspect a 20-25 HP would be ideal.