Design for a chubby little canoe/kayak?

[davidrparker]

Last year I saw a website for a little kayak/canoe that was made from a couple peices of 3mm ply (or doorskin) and I have lost the link. Anyone familiar with anything like this?

Thanks, David

[switters]

a pirogue?

Mr Boyle or Mr dillon should be along shortly. Do you remember the length and was it flat bottomed?

[Thorne]

Go on --- tell us why!

You can make 'em short, but lose a lot of paddling power and some stability.

Doorskin will make a workable hull if glassed correctly, but you end up with a lot of time and money invested in a dodgy material. Here's shots of a friend's boat made from glassed skins.
http://www.luckhardt.com/holly_bough.jpg

[davidrparker]

Well, to roughly quote from a recent National Geographic article on treking in Bhutan, when asked by the author of the article why the local ladies wore these seemingly useless little hats, they simply replied "because they are just precious".

No good reason for my interest in this design other than "they are just precious".

Go on --- tell us why!

You can make 'em short, but lose a lot of paddling power and some stability.

Doorskin will make a workable hull if glassed correctly, but you end up with a lot of time and money invested in a dodgy material. Here's shots of a friend's boat made from glassed skins.
http://www.luckhardt.com/holly_bough.jpg

[kengrome]

Last year I saw a website for a little kayak/canoe that was made from a couple peices of 3mm ply (or doorskin) and I have lost the link. Anyone familiar with anything like this?Hi David,

Maybe you're thinking of Dubber:

http://www.kayakdesigns.com/



http://www.kayakdesigns.com/plansmanual.jpg

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

The doorskin idea gets mixed reviews. It will work but it will be heavier than you think because it takes a lot of epoxy to shore up the hull so you don't kick a hole in it accidently.
Except for a child, short paddleboats are not the hot set-up. Not enough waterline to get adequate glide. A long waterline boat will leave you panting in the dust without even trying. And shorties yaw with every paddle stroke. That's why the boat above has a rudder.
If none of that bothers you have at it.
Then there is the dollars. You can get a Old Town 9½ ft. "Otter" for $299 and it will be as good. If the "Dubber" is made from doorskins you would have to invest that much in the glass and epoxy.

[davidrparker]

That's the one, and yes, it's too short, would probably cost more in epoxy than some other designs but it sure is cute. Has anyone actually built and paddled one?

Thanks for the link.

Hi David,

Maybe you're thinking of Dubber:

http://www.kayakdesigns.com/



http://www.kayakdesigns.com/plansmanual.jpg

[rbgarr]

We build the Dubbers where I work. http://www.southportislandmarine.com/dubber.htm

As the car salesmen say "What do I have to do to put you in one today?":D

[JimD]

What are they like in a little chop?

[rbgarr]

What are they like in a little chop?

I'm too big for one so I don't know.

[edsutt]

Take a look at the Jam or Rip 8 at www.synergyboatworks.com (http://www.synergyboatworks.com). They may fit the bill.

[glenallen]

As CChuck said above, a short boat will wobble side to side with each stroke until your brains begin to drizzle out of your ears. You'll go two feet sideways for every foot you go ahead.
If you must have one of these short boats, build one and hang it in your rafters to look at, then build yourself a longer boat.
You can build a 16 or 19 foot long boat 24-30 inches wide that weighs only 45-50 pounds and it will be a pleasure to you rather than an aggravation. You can carry it with one hand.
I suggest you rent or borrow a longer kayak and paddle it for an hour straight ahead in a calm lake, then buy or borrow a 10-12 foot kayak and do the same. See which one scrambles your brains first.
Whichever choice you make, good luck.

[Pernicious Atavist]

Dubber...hmmm...I can see a sail on it....hmmmm....

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Dubber...hmmm...I can see a sail on it....hmmmm....

Can you spell SLOW?
I sail an 8' pram. I never leave the shore without my watch because getting anywhere more than a mile away takes a loooong time unless I am out in a gale. Most of my sailing is ruled by the watch. If I don't get where I'm going in X hours I have to abort and head for home so as not to miss supper.

[Todd Bradshaw]

First of all, I like long boats and after many years retailing canoes and kayaks I believe that when left to their own devices, most people will buy a boat that is not long enough to do what they want or need it to do very well. The classic 15' tandem canoe similar to those built for many years by companies like Old Town, Grumman, etc. is a prime example of a canoe that I personally consider relatively worthless.

However, at this point in time, there are a heck of a lot of people out there having fun paddling short, rather inefficient canoe and kayak designs ranging from sit-on-tops to shortened versions based on sea kayaks. To those of us who are used to boats which glide with every stroke, they are quite disappointing and slow, but you would have trouble convincing many of their owners that this was a problem. Speed is a matter of how far you intend to go and what you want to see and do as you paddle along. A small, solo boat for gunkholing and exploring often doesn't need to be fast.

It simply is not true that short canoes/kayaks automatically have terrible directional stability. Some do by being poor designs, some do on purpose, like whitewater play boats, but there are some short touring canoes and kayaks that track reasonably well. Due to their increased draft and lower length to beam ratios, they may never glide well or go very fast, but there is no reason to assume that you will be constantly fighting just to maintain directional control. If that is your experience, you simply haven't tried enough different designs or you need to brush up on your paddling skills.

I kind of like the Dubber, mostly because it's so damned strange looking. It seems to be a rather clever use of sheet materials to build a boat that is far from being a box. I haven't been able to pull up any pics or drawings showing a cross-section, but suspect it may be some sort of shallow V bottom and don't see any reason why that shouldn't be able to generate reasonable tracking for a short fat hull. The inward-sloping topsides would make paddling easier for a boat with that kind of beam, but might not be too great as the chop builds. Most canoes will take enough chop to swamp the hull in the area of the forward quarter (about where the bow seat is on a tandem boat) long before anything comes over the bow. In this case, waves will likely hit those sloping sides and come right up the ramp they form and into the cockpit, but I doubt the designer really had big chop in mind when he designed it. Sailing? I'm not so sure. At fifteen degrees of heel, that curving chine is a pretty strange shape to be sticking down in the water. As an interesting and unusual little canoeyak for poking around in small places or skinny water though, I think it might be kind of fun as long as you don't have to cross three miles of open water to get there.

[edsutt]

It really depends what you are going to use the boat for. A short boat isn't the one you are going to take cover distance quickly. On the other hand, my buddy and I took our Jam 8's and hiked a mile through the woods to paddle on a wilderness lake formed by a beaver dam. They are also great for exploring way up into salt marshes and going down mild rivers. When you are done for the day, you can stick the boat in your closet.

[switters]

Dubber...hmmm...I can see a sail on it....hmmmm....

That was funny:D,

[Pernicious Atavist]

No, really...a balanced lugsail...striped, red and white...with a yellow ducky forward

[davidrparker]

We build the Dubbers where I work. http://www.southportislandmarine.com/dubber.htm

As the car salesmen say "What do I have to do to put you in one today?":D
Do you build them with the rudder as shown on the plans?

[kengrome]

I kind of like the Dubber, mostly because it's so damned strange looking. It seems to be a rather clever use of sheet materials to build a boat that is far from being a box. I haven't been able to pull up any pics or drawings showing a cross-section, but suspect it may be some sort of shallow V bottom and don't see any reason why that shouldn't be able to generate reasonable tracking for a short fat hull.I tried modeling in it FreeShip and it looks like a v-bottom to me. Unfortunately this forum limits me to something like 80 kb of total uploads for my entire account -- not for each post -- and my 99.7 kb image makes it "Exceeds your quota by 20.2 KB".

:(:(:(:(

[Steve Lansdowne]

Little Dubber, and as I recall there is a slightly larger version also, has gotta be the funniest looking boat around, but it does seem to have its admirers and some virtues. I called it 'ugly' right to the designer's face a few years back at a boat show, and he was rather proud of how ugly it was!

[Todd Bradshaw]

I finally remembered what it reminds me of.......I was in an antique store in Minoqua Wisconsin a couple years ago and saw a couple of really cool old handles for beer taps that were made to look like canoes standing on end - except they were short, fat and somewhat distorted in shape - kind of like the Dubber. If it reminds one of beer, it can't be all bad.

[Tom Robb]

Looks to me like it's designed by someone who makes wooden shoes at their day job.

[kengrome]

Instead of hijacking this thread I've started a new thread to post some information about a little canoe design I've been working on. The new thread is here:

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1869181

[Ymepointer]

Here are a few pics of one my 12 year old son just finished building for a shop project. He says it works great and he has gotten lots of compliments on it.http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/ymepointer/Calebs%20Kayak/DSCF0008.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/ymepointer/Calebs%20Kayak/DSCF0006.jpghttp://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/ymepointer/Calebs%20Kayak/DSCF0006.jpg

[Ymepointer]

No, really...a balanced lugsail...striped, red and white...with a yellow ducky forward


P A,

I have discussed with my son the possibillity of adding sails to his dubber, and I was wondering about double bilgeboards on this design, any thoughts on how that might work?

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f227/ymepointer/Calebs%20Kayak/DSCF0009.jpg

[JimD]

God help you should that ridiculous chine trip for any reason.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Even as a paddleboat this is a very quirky design. Trying to convert it into a sailboat could be a hair puller.
My standard caveat is "you can hoist a bedsheet over almost any boat and it will go downwind but it's not a sailboat unless it will tack".
As an adult who still sails an 8' pram I like the idea that a NA came up with my boat and all I have to do is make it go.
I've monitored numerous threads where someone is trying to make a sailboat out of a hull that's unsuitable and most end up going nowhere or they end up taking so much time the owner loses interset.

[Ymepointer]

Thanks for the feedback. I was just wondering since Pernicious atavist seems to be a sailing canoe aficienado, and I recall that the building manual my son received from Peter hunt the designer indicated he had originally planned on it being capable of sailing, hence the kick up rudder, he provided an addendum to the plans showing the smaller fixed rudder you see in my sons dubber. I will email Mr. Hunt and ask him if he thinks it would work. There is some extra space on each side of the bulkheads for fitting bilgeboards though so I thought I would ask.:D

[Woxbox]

I've always admired that design for what it intends to be - a simple and handy little kayak that's easy to build and use. But the hull shape has no reserve stablity, since the sides are shaped for ease of paddling. An adult might have the weight needed to hold it down under sail, but I wouldn't be so sure about a child alone on board.

Now if you turned it into a 3-meter trimaran, you'd have something. Stability, more sail-carrying power, and a place to mount a pair of daggerboards. You could borrow ama and aka plans from any number of sources for the 3-meter tri class.

[Ymepointer]

Oh, I had not even thought about adding an ama, but I am sure it would work as a cat or tri. My fear was that it would tip too, though it is very wide for a Kayak,canoe, 32 inches wide by 7 foot long, it seems to have a lot of initial stability but the secondary stability drops like a rock once that chine sinks too far. Thanks for that feedback everone, I will discuss with Peter hunt and my son, as this was a shop project he build himself, anything else he might do would be up to him. I will ask Mr Hunt and see what he thinks.

[LeeG]

a 12'-13' waterline is more than long enough for easy 2.5mph-3mph cruising. If you're looking for a rec. kayak design try out a Necky Manitou 13 or 14 as a reference for good handling in plastic then see what is similar in ply.