speculation design

[Daniel Noyes]

I hope to begin building a boat on speculation in my spare time (ha ha). I will be building in a one man shop and hope to be involving local seascout group in parts of the build. Want to have the boat ready to sail or sell by this fall (400+- hrs.)
Im interested in...
Ideas on designs, traditional, modern, construction method.
Why is that design the best "investment" (ha ha).

Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[kenjamin]

The Caledonia Yawl is very popular for hauling around troops of scouts and they look great too. Building time is estimated to be between 350 and 450 hours. From the Classic Marine site, I believe these are the designer's (Iain Oughtred) own words:

The Caledonia Yawl is a very adaptable design; the boat is easily rigged and sailed single-handed, and is also spacious, stable and comfortable for family sailing. With the generous sail area, efficiently set up, she will perform well in sheltered waters and will keep sailing when many other boats will be hassling with the outboard or taking to the oars. And with her great reserve buoyancy, full ends and strong sheer, she is an exceptionally sea kindly little vessel, quite capable of serious coastal cruising (in experienced hands of course), and will stand up to a bit of heavy weather with relative comfort and safety. The two optional sailing rigs are quickly adapted to any likely conditions. The balanced lug is the simplest to set up and to handle for a short-handed drew; it retains something of the style of the powerful dipping lugs carried by many traditional Scottish craft, but is far simpler to operate. The jib - gaff main - mizzen rig is a little more complex to set up, but is still easily handled, and quickly adjusted to suit the breeze. The short main mast is easily stepped; it presents minimal windage when the sail is reefed; in severe conditions the boat still balances and gets to windward under jib and mizzen alone.

[Daniel Noyes]

great suggestion. I think the size is spot on, 18-22 ft is where I think I will get the best return on my investment. I feel that a boat shorter than 18' really takes about the same amount of time to build and uses nearly as much material but is far less boat when it comes time to sell it. The Cal Yawl does seem to be very popular lately and with a boat on spec. short turn around time is important. I assume comercial builders would work out a fee per boat to go to Mr. Oughtred...
I do like the idea of an open boat though, beach cruiser/daysailer type.
Will I see you again this year at Mystic?
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com
will I see you again this

[Daniel Noyes]

Ok so I think I have 5 candidates rangeing in size from 12-26 ft and from slow to 20 mph cruising speed.
1: Gardner/ Ephriam Clark "AXA's wherry" 12' dinghy from Gardners small boats book.
2: Gardner/ Chamberlain "Alpha Dory" 21' the ultimate sail and oar boat...all that and boat loads of history too, famous along the north shore of Ma.
3: (Me) Ipswich Bay 18, ive got all the design info, materials lists, patterns, etc. ready to go, and it is a sweet boat... I might have trouble letting go.
4: (Me) IB 26 a full on "spirit of tradition" class racer, built to the Mass Bay Yach Assoc. waterline class rules circa. 1900. a sharp bow raceing scow with bilge boards and rudders. ERR 2009!
5: Amesbury skiff/ lobstering skiff, 21', 30 hp out-board power, tiny cuddy for gear and portable head.

decisions, decisions!
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[merlinron]

i would think an ipswitch bay would be a decent prospect. it's a more recognizable "sailboat" in anyone's eyes (people looking for thier first sailboat,etc.) that or maybe an indian class, somewhat a look-alike. i've seen an indian class ghost by my in-laws' pier when i could hardly feel the slightest breeze with 4 or 5 aboard. i'm thinking in terms of a wider buyer appeal.

[Daniel Noyes]

Yea the Indian is quite a boat! really a great combinaton of nononsense design and gracefull beauty, and they sail so well. We have an old Indian on the Merrimack river tucked up in the marsh along a tidal creek. Where is your in-laws place? is it in Wisconsin?
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[merlinron]

yup it's on a small lake in central wisconsin. just a few minutes away from the late Ferdie Mymphius's boat yard. he built the boat i speak of sometime in the sixties. when he was still around, 20 or so yrs ago, i asked him about the boat on "our" lake, he said he built several at the time and in his opinion, it was, "one of the nicest, small water boats he'd built". i really do think it's a great boat. nothing complicated, a real good size, and a great first sailboat.

[Daniel Noyes]

Dory's make great lake boats. they are light and easy to haul and maintain, take hard use well, cary a good amount of weight for their size and perform well under sail. A local company here in Newbury sent thousands of sailing dories into the lakes of newengland during the 50's 60's and 70's and still builds boats for kids summer camps.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[Clinton B Chase]

Dan, I think you should build an Alpha-Beach....with me...we can start a website featuring the two boats being built side-by-side. It is looking pretty certain that I will start one next Fall at the earliest, the following summer at the latest. You are right, it is the ultimate sail-and-oar boat. Today I had kids out and the boat was loaded...5 kids, me, and gear. We got into a wavey area...a few looked concerned and I reminded them to let the boat move under them and the boat went through the waves easily. I plan on building a small downwind sail for this boat and get kids engaged in rigging the boat and sailing.

Dories are not difficult to sell...kids build several commissions every year at Compass.

Can you imagine the looks a sleek, well lined, Alpha-Beach would get at the SRR? My vision is to have multiple rigs, as the dorymen had, an alpha rig with shrouds for exciting sailing, a balance lug-yawl and maybe a dipping lug or sprit for upwind rows, downwind sails.

Another account of the dory: we took my little guy out in the boat for a long row....it got pretty choppy but the 21' boat strode over the waves...he was sitting in the stern seat -- the "cuddy" -- looking for seals and we simply were not nervous about the seaworthiness...couldn't be in a safer boat. For family sailing, the model with a dory is to row up wind, explore, and sail back.

I haven't even mentioned how enjoyable dory construction is....I don't need to tell you that! You tell us, if you were to do an Alpha-Beach, how would you plank it?

Cheers,
Clint

[Daniel Noyes]

OK lets.

I'll be at Mystic this weekend end for the WBS and will bring along my bevel square and see if I can check the Feet/frame angle at each frame of their Alpha. I think every thing we need for the build is right in the Dory Book. It would be great to get several Alphas up and running for youth competition along the coast, mabey a rowing leg and a sailing leg...
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[kenjamin]

No doubt that you can sell an Alpha on looks alone. Many is the time I've gazed dreamily at the Alpha in Gardner's Dory book. But as a stock boat to sell, Oughtred's John Dory fits much better in a garage, much easier to solo handle, and is still a terrific looking boat with good load carrying ability. I've come to realize, however, that building and selling wooden boats has got a lot more to do with passion than practicality. If good cedar were more available down here in the South, I think I would be more passionate about traditionally building Alphas. That would be a great smelling job to have!

[Clinton B Chase]

I here you on the cedar quality, Kenjamin. I am keeping my eye out and may be open to do all plywood and epoxy or perhaps the bottom and gbd in plywood (a nice skin of f'glass on the bottom for all the beaching) and the broads and sheer strake in pine or cedar.

At Compass we are building another John Dory and that is better for folks with limited garage space and for people who want to be able to handle the boat solo. Me, personally, I'll do an Alpha-Beach.

Dan, we'll talk more at the show. We have a nice alpha-beach already built that I want to fit out for sailing. Actually, we have 2 of them, but one is really rough and not lined off correctly.

Cheers,
Clint

[wtarzia]

A lapstrake outrigger sailing canoe; call it "east meets west" or something. Advertise it as an "green solution" (the most boat for the least wood: physics and geometry will back you up), the most adaptable (can be paddled or sailed, even rowed if set up well), the most transportable (towed behind a small 4 cylinder car on any kind of trailer, possibly car-topped, depending on size), and the most stowable (stowed compactly in yard or garage). Being a fast sailer will not hurt, either. Also, "the most unusual boat in your neighborhood" might be a selling point for some ;-) -- Wade