fastest wooden sailboat

[gray duck]

Just finished building a Shellback Dinghy and lovin it! A real joy to sail.

Thinking of next project (shh! SWMBO is walking by and there has been a moratorium imposed on boat building - shop shut down temporarily due to lack of permit)

OK she's in the other room. Question: What is the fastest sailboat I could build around 17 feet (give or take)? Restrictions are that it needs to live on a trailer, capable of being rigged quickly, sailed by one person and two little helpers now only 4 and 6, capacity should be 4-5 adults, preferably with trapeze options, spinaker/asymetrical, bowsprit retractable, plywood constuction S&G, cold mold, or stipper. a catamarran would likely be too hard for me to store.

Basically what I want is (almost) the speed and excitement of an Australian skiff with a little more stability and safety. Typical conditions where I sail are 15 kts (ranging 5-20). Feel free to post pics of your choices/recommendations. Thanks.

[The Bigfella]

Tornado catamaran.

It would probably have been a wooden one that set the world speed record many years ago at 37 knots. Since exceeded. Easy to build. Two options for transport - tilt trailer or pull the beams and store flat on the trailer (takes an extra 20 minutes or so to rig then).

I've seen them sailed solo - but not in 20 knots.

[Wild Wassa]

'Tokyo Trash Baby', an i550. You can build one for about 4,000AU and fitted out for 10,000AU all up. On a trailer and fitted out to the max about 15,000AU. A Carbon mast would be the go.

You did write, the speed of a Aussie skiff. The i550's are a nasty bit of work. I've raced on Sportboats and doing 17 knots is just warming up.

If you are in Aus and want to have a race on a Sports Boat, to see if the speed actually suits you unless you have come from skiffs, because it is scary cool, let me know. I'll organize a ride on a Magic or an Elliot for you, if you are not able to do so. Or if you can contact a Sports Boat Skipper where you are, go for a ride, you'll not regret it ... the speed will blow you away. Sports Boats blow everything else away, except for a couple of cats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_FKI10sb4A ... at 4 min 20 sec into the vid, Trash Baby is ripping it up in the 2007 St Helena Cup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVwS543WfY&NR=1

http://livesaildie.com/2006/11/the-tokyo-trash-baby-tale/

Warren.

[Daniel Noyes]

free building packet.
We sail in Massachusetts, strip planked and ply hull, will plane in 12-15 mph breeze, spoon bow prevents sport boat type nose dives, not sure if you will want to mess with a spinnaker with kids aboard, but a mast head baloon jib would be fun broad reaching and running, Bill (owner) plans on trying one this summer.
dan http://dansdories.googlepages.com
http://dansdories.googlepages.com/55768x10.jpg/55768x10-custom;size:392,490.jpg (http://dansdories.googlepages.com/55768x10.jpg/55768x10-full.jpg)

[Duncan Gibbs]

Sorry Dan, but I think the i550 Sportsboats look just that bit faster than your design. How important is that silly looking cuddy to the design Warren? It appears to hide two "berths". I would assume that if you got rid of the cuddy and berths the boat would be lighter, and easier (less complex) to to build. I don't think it looks like too many (only one?) have been built so far. Where is Tokyo Trash Baby? I pressume you've sailed on her?

[Wild Wassa]

The cuddy, the small cabin stores all of the gear.

On the Micro Tonner that I crew, also 550, on a 3 sail reach or downwind we have 445 sqft of sail up on the 5 and a half metre boat. The i550 with the an asymmetrical kite, carries more up top. Sportboats have big sails, downwind an i550 carries 595sqft of sail or 55m/sq.

Measurement day at this year's Sportboat Nationals. Big sails ... win big races.


http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/WildWassa/MeasurementDay2.jpg


... and the cuddy is not just to store gear in at the end of day. Trailer Yacht Associations have strict requirements concerning safety gear and it has to go somewhere. You can save a lot of money being able to sleep on the boat, but with Sportboats, there are few boats more Spartan for the creature comforts than a Sportboat.

If you took the Cuddy off, you would have a Thompson 550 rocket ship look alike or a Dart looking thingo.

The i550 site http://www.i550sportboat.com/

Warren.

[gray duck]

Warren, thanks mate! She's the one. Perfect. The name will probably have to be "Permission Granted" - because that's what it'll take to let the dust fly again in the garage shop.

[Hwoodworks]

Fast as in sailboats. I have been thinking about fast sailboats. Are wooden sailboats really fast, really. I have a fibreglass sailboat , a Prindle 18’, you have to move the line between bravery and stupidity to get on one of these, But it is not wooden like your question.

I have rebuilt a International Star 1953 woody. Replaced part of hull, sisters 10 ribs, repaired wooden mast and boom, and refinish out side of hull white with a waves of small stars runing down the sides. (working on pic to show) The Star will replace that devil boat.

The Star was featured in, Boats for Free, in the WoodenBoat classifieds. Thanks so much to those that made this possible. You don’t know how much this has meant to me.

I think that the Stars are fast. Their numbers seen to indicate that they are. I am looking forward to getting to know this boat, and what it can teach me.

[SchoonerRat]

Yes, wood boats are fast. So are fiberglass. so are aluminum. Most of the fastest boats today are space age composits, they are light, stiff and strong.

There's a whole lot more that goes into makin a boat fast than just what she's made of.

[gray duck]

I agree with all above comments. My question was what would be the fastest boat I can build at home - ie out of marine plywood. For what I want Warren's suggestion of the i550 is a perfect match in all areas. But I might be evicted at the moment if I pick up a power tool that makes noise and dust. I'm in PPW - post project withdrawal.

[tbarrows]

Take a look at this boat, the PT 15. It is a speedster and might be just what you're looking for.

http://nwmaritime.org/news/news_128.shtml

-tom

[The Bigfella]

My question was what would be the fastest boat I can build at home - ie out of marine plywood.


If those are the only two criteria - fastest, marine plywood. Then there is only one answer. Tornado catamaran. Then again, add another 5' and a bit more beam and you could do a "C" class cat - many of which were built at home.

[Roger Cumming]

A Lightning.

[Duncan Gibbs]

Nah! I like the i550. But there's surely got to be a way of changing or reducing that silly looking cuddy whilst maintaining storage capacity, and I don't see any real need for the two berths:

http://www.geocities.com/cdbeckwith/iBoat/BuildPhotos_files/i550bf.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/cdbeckwith/iBoat/BuildPhotos_files/i550bl.jpg

[DGentry]

Hmmm . . . those cuddy cabins serve another, more important, purpose than gear storage or sleeping quarters! Not trying to be sexist, but if you ever want a female to come sailing with you a second time (for more than a few hours), there'd better be a place for her to pee in privacy. Of course there are many exceptional women, but, in my experience, many non-sailing ladies and girls are reticent to hang it all out over the side.

That I550 looks good, and the cuddy looks just right, to my eye.

I truly laughed out loud at some (not all) of the other suggestions people had for "faster" boats than this - but here's another one that is, from another forum:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/woodie%20sportboat.jpg_sml.jpg (http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2008/woodie%20sportboat.jpg)

Check out the article, and some more pics and a vid: http://www.sailinganarchy.com/article.php?get=1423

[Wild Wassa]

" ... and I don't see any real need for the two berths ..."

Buoyancy tanks.

Warren.

[Steve Clark]

Please don't think for a minute that an i550 is the best you can do out of wood. The number of faster woodies is almost endless. These can be as esoteric as International Canoes, Swift Solos, and A Class Catamarans. All are light quick modern designs that are compaable with home building. The IC is pretty much a one man beast, but the Solo and A Class can be happily sailed with a kid or two aboard.
Beyond this are very nice designs like Javelins and Cherubs that might be one or two generations old, but were pretty optimal for plywood construction.
On the other hand if you want to build a simple plywood "sport boat" then there isn't anything wrong with the i550. Just don't think it's going to be the fastest thing ever built out of wood.
SHC

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Tornado catamaran.

It would probably have been a wooden one that set the world speed record many years ago at 37 knots. Since exceeded. Easy to build. Two options for transport - tilt trailer or pull the beams and store flat on the trailer (takes an extra 20 minutes or so to rig then).

I've seen them sailed solo - but not in 20 knots.

What Tornado did 37 knots? - the fastest tornado I can name is Icarus - but that was on foils.
http://www.speedsailing.com/Background_records.htm
http://www.ussc.co.uk/history.htm

[The Bigfella]

What Tornado did 37 knots?


That's testing the old grey cells. I'll see if I can dig it out - but it was almost certainly something I had in print rather than electrons.

Here's the Tornado association site in Oz:


The total weight of the Tornado is around 160 kilograms (similar to the weight of the two people sailing it) and with an upwind sail area of 22 square metres and an additional 25 sqm of spinnaker down wind the Tornado's top speed is in excess of 33 knots.


http://www.aita.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=1

When we used to race on Sydney Harbour, we would overtake the Manly ferries - and they travelled at 18 knots. On a reach .......... call it a very rapid overtaking move. The flash bulbs would be popping from all the tourist cameras.

[Wild Wassa]

I'm restoring a floor in a farmhouse out in the sticks. The lady of the house went to play tennis this morning with ladies in the district and she mentioned that the person doing her floor is a boat restorer. One of the ladies said, "Invite him over to see the boat my husband is building. He might be interested. He should visit today because the deck is about to go on, being fitted this evening."

After lunch a phone call was received at the farmhouse as a reminder to come and see the boat.

Being a nice invitation to get, off I went after I finished at the farmhouse. Another long dirt road to negotiate, always interesting in this dry region. Hilly, winding and very dusty the trip was. Through the White and Yellow Box country, the Ribbon Gums and the Inland Scribbly Barks and plenty of bleached grassy open woodland looked good in the late afternoon and thinking I was going to see another plod boat being built, but still interested and wanting to be hospitable with the people in the district ... low and behold the build is an i550.

Never would I have guessed today that I'd come across this boat out in the bush. Life can hold amazing surprises.

Photos coming.

Warren.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Id like to see that, I have the plans but havn't started to build yet.

[Wild Wassa]

Sorry this post has been removed.

Warren.

[Ian McColgin]

The hyper rockets are great for those redblooded athletic enough but not really relaxing, especially with kids.

LFH drew a brilliant 17 foot centerboard knockabout that is hot enough for thrills but can be throttled back with the kids. I saw one made strip planked modified Cutts.

Visually it looks superficially like Dan's sloop above but with it's transom hung rudder and 4" draft when light she's easier to launch. A bird's mouth mast with a tabernacle completes the easy rig and launch requirement.

I'd put foam blocks under the stern and bow so that with Elfstrom bailers of transom shutters she'd be self-rescuing.

Sail fast.

[gray duck]

Warren - enjoyed your story - quite a surprise I'm sure. Thanks for posting the pics.
Ian - your points are well taken. My kids want speed and I hope that they are soon going to be athletic enough to help me handle it all.
How long do you think it takes to launch an i550?

[Wild Wassa]

Sorry, this post has been removed.

Warren.

[gray duck]

Warren - See if you can get Mr Davidson to join and post on the i550 site. His CB trunk modification is interesting. The following questions may be more for him but answer if you can. Is his board going to be longer - ie flush at the top of the cabin top when all the way down or will he have to use a cable? Thanks.

[Wild Wassa]

Sorry this post has been removed.

Warren.

[dewaegep]

Dear Warren,
you cannot imagine how interresting is for me all the information you submit to this thread. I´m new in the forrum, living in a very small island in Mexico, where there is NO sailing afition, neither boatbuilders and so on. The price of a new boat is too expansive for me, and a few weeks ago, I stat to see the option of building my boats. That´s why I start surfing the net, and end up with this forum. I had actually dream about the i550 last week, and was starting to investigate supplier in MX of the diferent product I will need to build the boat.
You just give me the push I needed to follow my dream, and will follow in this way. I hope you can send more photos and tips on the construction of the i550. Thanks a lot, (and also to all who contribute to this thread)

Patrick

[Wild Wassa]

Patrick, welcome to the Wooden Boat Forum Mate, and thanks for your kind words.

It is addictive being here on this Forum, so take care and good luck with your boats. There is only one complete site for wooden boats and you're on it.

Enjoy your stay.

Warren.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Thanks Wassa, they are great shots.
The plans have two versions, a long cabin with a short internal centerboard case, and a short cabin with longer centreboard case opening in the front of the cockpit.
I thought I would build the short cabin version, its interesting to see another take on the long cabin which tackles the same problem, i.e. no water coming into the boat from the centreboard slot.
The plans don't include the stringers, which are a good idea.
I like the "female mold" strongback.
I am seriously considering making mine with bilge stringers rather than S&G. Unfortunately I cant find the space or time to start building for at least a year, but its top of the list for my next boat.
The i550 is just the thing for old skiffies like me, A big fast self rightable dinghy, I am planning to get an old sixteen foot skiff and canibalise the rig, fittings and blades for this boat.

[bamamick]

Great thread. I was going to recommend the Swift Solo (the first thing that came to my mind was an IC, but you said 'more stability'). Now I see that it looks like you've made up your mind.

One thing I would like to mention before you do all of this: go sailing with some people. I don't know what your experience is, but the difference between a Shellback and this boat would be comparable to the difference between a Ford Escort and an F1 car. I have sailed many, many different classes of boats over the last 32 years. I got interested in the IC class, went and got one, and now I can't sail the damn thing at all. Oh, I love it and have every intention of keeping it. Every now and then I will carry it down to the water and sail it up and down the beach, but I couldn't get it around a race course if my life depended on it.

Just a suggestion.

Mickey Lake

[Mrleft8]

Yanno........... There's just something so............... "Right" about some boats and ply construction..... Those pictures of Warren's are all that and more!

[Keith Wilson]

Why for the love of God are you guys discussing monohulls? You want fast, build a little pywood cat with lots of sail, get out on the trapeeze, and hang on.

Here's one, which comes in a 14' single-trapeeze version as well as the 16' dual-trapeeze type shown. There are lots of others.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D125
http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/quattro16.htm

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/images/400125.JPG

[Peter Belenky]

The (aptly named) Richard Woods-designed Quattro 14 and Quattro 16 (and the simpler Pixie) look handsome, fast, and easy to build, but in terms of catamaran speed, theyre probably not the equals of the plywood
A-cat:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=49&theme=Printer (http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=49&theme=Printer)

Mosquito:
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/ (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/)
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nmcca/index.htm (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~nmcca/index.htm)

or Taipan:
http://www.taipan.asn.au/Tips%20and%20Tricks/archived_tips_frame.htm (http://www.taipan.asn.au/Tips%20and%20Tricks/archived_tips_frame.htm)

Not to mention the Tornado:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=6

[Daniel Noyes]

Why for the love of God are you guys discussing monohulls? You want fast, build a little pywood cat with lots of sail, get out on the trapeeze, and hang on.

Here's one, which comes in a 14' single-trapeeze version as well as the 16' dual-trapeeze type shown. There are lots of others.

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400%2D125
http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/quattro16.htm

http://www.woodenboatstore.com/images/400125.JPG


Because the original post specified mono...thats the only reason...why arent we discussing Yellow Pages tri hulls...because cats and other more extreme craft have a reputation for being finicky, but I dont think a cat is much more trouble than the sport boat type being discussed. I think a scow type hull might be a good compromise between sport and cat, the scow has most of the stability of the cat, simplicity of the mono hull and requires a little less effort to day sail at a similar speed. You could also get a bigger boat for $.
Dan
http://dansdories.googlepages.com

[tokyo]

Sorry Dan, but I think the i550 Sportsboats look just that bit faster than your design. How important is that silly looking cuddy to the design Warren? It appears to hide two "berths". I would assume that if you got rid of the cuddy and berths the boat would be lighter, and easier (less complex) to to build. I don't think it looks like too many (only one?) have been built so far. Where is Tokyo Trash Baby? I pressume you've sailed on her?

hey mate, the trashbaby is located in brisbane and sails out of RQYS mostly. there is a long cockpit version available which has a smaller cabin and longer cockpit with the keel being raised much like a thompson 7, i will try post some photos of one being built in newcastle when i get home for you guys to stare at. and as warren said, the bunks are extra bouyancy tanks.

[tokyo]

By the way guys. check out the video that has been uploaded so you can get a sense of how quick the little girl is!! if there is anyone in brisbane who is wanting a look at her let me know, more than happy to show you to her(though she does have a few little battle scars from hard racing! )

[Paul G.]

http://pathfinder.orcon.net.nz/images/flying.jpg

This looks like (wet) fun,

[Banjo]

if you want something a little larger but just as sporty, then how about a Mini TransAT?

http://www.dixdesign.com/didimini.htm
http://www.dixdesign.com/didi21rig%20mk2.jpg

[Wild Wassa]

The shots have been pulled, no further images of this boat will be posted here nor details on progress of the i550 being built will be posted.

Someone has caused the builder grief. The builder was kind enough to allow me to post here ... and the friendship has been abused by someone here on the Forum.

A shame, to ruin a potentially good picture thread for all to enjoy ... that is how it goes.

Warren.

[tokyo]

http://pathfinder.orcon.net.nz/images/flying.jpg

This looks like (wet) fun,

that definitely aint made of wood dude. try foam and carbon!!:)

[gray duck]

Warren - What happened? I was eagerly coming back here for update photos and saw your post. What kind of grief could have caused such a massive evacuation and pullout? send me a PM if you can't be public about it. A real shame.

[rhskcdn]

The shots have been pulled, no further images of this boat will be posted here nor details on progress of the i550 being built will be posted.

I'm disappointed by this. I lurk here on occasion and generally live vicariously through many of the projects posted in these forums. Family, school/work and student debt have me living in an inland apartment without access to a boat. These i550s look like a real blast.

[MiddleAgesMan]

The shots have been pulled, no further images of this boat will be posted here nor details on progress of the i550 being built will be posted.

Someone has caused the builder grief. The builder was kind enough to allow me to post here ... and the friendship has been abused by someone here on the Forum.

A shame, to ruin a potentially good picture thread for all to enjoy ... that is how it goes.

Warren.

If this someone posts here why don't you out him/her? I can't imagine how anyone could have made this into a negative and caused your new friend grief over his build....:(

[rhskcdn]

Just curious... how 'trailerable' are these sport boats? The mini designs I've seen (including the didi mini (http://www.dixdesign.com/didimini.htm) linked above) are rather wide. What about the i550s?

[The Bigfella]

C'mon Warren. What happened?

[Banjo]

Just curious... how 'trailerable' are these sport boats? The mini designs I've seen (including the didi mini (http://www.dixdesign.com/didimini.htm) linked above) are rather wide. What about the i550s?

Hmm see what you mean, the Didi is: Beam 3.00m (9'10")
Would have to get over width permits for that in my area, and only allowed on the road in day light hours.

[rhskcdn]

Joe Cooper (http://www.minitransat650.com/html/hood_wylie_.html) built a mini designed by Tom Wylie (http://www.wyliecat.com) with a higher beam to length ratio and a single rudder.

[Paul G.]

that definitely aint made of wood dude. try foam and carbon!!:)

its got a wooden thingy, you know that whatsit on the other bit over there...thats definitely made of wood!

[Hwyl]

The shots have been pulled, no further images of this boat will be posted here nor details on progress of the i550 being built will be posted.

Someone has caused the builder grief. The builder was kind enough to allow me to post here ... and the friendship has been abused by someone here on the Forum.

A shame, to ruin a potentially good picture thread for all to enjoy ... that is how it goes.

Warren.

Sorry to hear that Warren.

[2blackthumbs]

So Wild Wassa, if the builder allowed you to post the shots here, how come you were the one who pulled them. Surely if you have put them up with no copyright they are free game(?).

Is this a lesson to all, have you been back there, did you take anymore? Just pm (? is that right) to me. I'm wondering if I could attempt this too.

Only new to this and interested, but don't have the etiquette.