Vancouver Island timber

[Alex Low]

Ahoy,

I have just spent the last week on the phone negotiating some timber prices for a future project. It has been rather gong-show like - to say the least. Before I sign any papers, I thought I would post in here to see if anyone has any established relationships with local mills that they would recommend. I am only looking for Vancouver Island mills as shipping kills the price tag - and there is lots of Fir and Cedar around here.

Up to 30's lengths and the usual VG, clear, no heart, no sap.
Both Red cedar and Fir.

Anybody?

Thanks,

Alex

[SaltyD from BC]

I believe Dove Creek Timber on Piercy road out of Courtenay specialises in high end timber - mostly for export but if you haven't checked them yet I would. (They buy logs up this way right from the log sorts and sure get some lovely wood).

Probably the cheapest way with the market what it is would be to buy your own logs from private owners. Then hire somone with a mobile band saw or other mill. That would be a lot of dicking around though. And you'd definitely need to make sure the mill dude knows what he's doing!

Care to share the kind of prices that you've been quoted Alex? I know I almost fall over when I hear what good wood goes for these days... (Consequently I have a wee bandswaw mill of my own) ;)

[Alex Low]

Salty,

Hold on for a ride - you ready?

My partner and I have spoken to well over a dozen different mills, suppliers and individuals. I wont mention any names but we have been quoted wildly divergent prices:

Fir - Spar grade - 30' lengths -(no knots, no heart, no sap - pitch pockets less than 3" long) was quoted at $15bd/f, then got that down to $10 - now have some for $5.50. I still think that is quite high, but my wages holding up a phone line are starting to add up - if the project was a few years away, I would buy a log.

Fir planking - Started at $11bd/f for 2x8x22'. I have that down to $3.80bd/f - this is clear, vg, old

Red cedar planking - started at $5.50 still working on that one - should be $3ish.... - clear, vg, old

The real crushing blow has been the keel timber: 8"x18" - can't get anyone to do it for less than $6bd/f. There has been talk of a cut with some knots in it for 2.50 but I will believe that when its in my pile.

Haven't started on Yew, locust or oak for ribs yet. I know a load of locust that just went in a Coquina around these parts was picked up for a 1.50bd/f but that sounds like a smokin deal that won't be up again anytime soon.

How does that grab you?

Alex

[SaltyD from BC]

Ouch :eek: I mean like ouch all around :eek:

But reading prices in the city and especially stateside you've prolly got a decent deal there. I just can't get my head around it. We're surrounded by gorgeous wood but god help the idiot that thinks he can just go grab a log off of crown land. I've seen cypress, nice fir you name it, short pieces albeit it on burn piles of fresh logging blocks. Could I scrounge the odd bit of that asks I of the companys and the government? No.

Really pees me off. Anyways good luck with your quest. How much yew do you need, I'm guessing small amounts for braces, knees and stuff no?

[Alex Low]

Its truly unbelievable - esp. when they log old growth, the yew - being not viably merchantable - gets tossed on the slash pile and burns.

We need about 200 bd/f of Yew - double that if we have to cut around knots... want to frame with it.

Westwind in Victoria has a huge Yew log in their warehouse... I wonder how much $$$

[SaltyD from BC]

I love yew wood. I have a small stash myself. A buddy is a blaster out Winter Harbour way and tells me of a lovely log that he's working on getting. About 30 ft before the first branch he tells me which is just nuts...

[eleventhirtyfour]

Don't we all have a few yews in mind when we get thinking? I have at least 5, strategically placed around the Island, that I dream about being
around at the right time. I hear those winter winds are getting stronger...

PS- Low, have you talked with Pete on Denman yet?

[Mrleft8]

I don't think you'll want VG stock for your planking stock. Check what price they want for flat sawn, or diagonal (There's a term for this, but it escapes me right now) sawn stock.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Uh . . . I'm in the Seattle area, are you complaining about 3 - 5 dollar bf clear VG softwood prices?
Cheers

[Alex Low]

Haha! Mr. Belland makes it to the forum! I haven't talked to Pete yet, that was supposedly on Brown's list of things to forget about it...

Eric - not complaining - it just pays to phone around. I have been told that not so long ago that the stuff was $2/bdf if you talked to the right people. In fact I have been told that price is still around if you have the time and patience.

I am really just trying to avoid paying what contractors in the Whistler-McMansion circuit pay for their 'door grade' fir that gets chopped up into 24" pieces for blinds... thats all. I am on a different pay scale!!!

Alex

[Nanoose]

Westwind...if you know how to bleed $$

To replace our main mast recently, we bought a log from a Log House builder. Just another idea...

[goodbasil]

Go and talk to someone at B.C. Hydro.They have miles of land tracks for future use. There is a wood merchant in the valley, (Fraser Valley) who gets all of his stock from B.C. Hydro land. I don't know who you can start with but the investigation may be worth the effort. I'd start by talking to a road crew you may come across.

[dennisbur]

Anyone can take timber off of crown land for free if they get a permit. Mostly it's for firewood however, you don't need to tell them you have a 30 foot fireplace.

[soba]

With the demise of our local logging, alot of the roads are being decommissioned.

Talk to the guys who do road work for the logging companies...Bridge deck and wood from bridge frames is excellent...and generally free, if you can find a truck to haul it with. I broke a flatbed hauling 4 big wrc beams from Woss to Sooke.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Alex,
It's a good thread, glad you brought it up. I'm learning. Thanks.

[dennisbur]

commodores crafts boats www.commodorescraftboats.com (http://www.commodorescraftboats.com) in Richmond, BC mills all their own wood. The website states they have 50,000 bf on hand at all times and that they will mill wood for your whole project plus they have traditional plans as well. sorry, but I don't know about prices.

[gert]

ever consider "re-cycled" lumber?

link above:
http://www.commodorescraftedboats.com/?p=company

[Alex Low]

Thanks for all the responses.

As for recycled or bridge timbers - perhaps some people could weigh in on this...

I have been told, by multiple sources, that you don't want to put recycled, or old logs into boats (for example logs that have been downed and under a bridge for 30 years etc.)

Here is why - the 'life' or the resin or something has gone out of them. They become brittle over time and lose a huge amount of their resilience and working life.

I haven't committed to testing this theory, but I do know this: when I get a new piece of Fir - even if it has been kiln dried - that was standing in a forest a month ago - it has that smell, and its harder to push through the saw - I didn't really notice this until it was pointed out to me.

Where as I have scavenged lots of wood off the beach, some really old 80 rings/inch cedar that is light and dusty and brittle when broken....

I am not making any statements - but some opinions would be great.

There is a lot of cheap, old growth, recycled bridge timber stock available - I have seen it for $1 and $2 bd/f - anything that seems to good to be true usually is...

p.s. - I am speaking for hull structure and rigging - interior and cabinetry is a different story.

[soba]

The board we split off the bridge timber is nice...resinous, and springy enough that I think I could plank my Seabird without steaming!! But I'll steam anyway.

Seems better than the stuff I saw at westwind, and the timbercheck put the moisture at 20%.

I just went out and counted...62 rings per inch. Smells like a sauna. Mmm.

I'll be curious to see what you find/ go with.

[SaltyD from BC]

There are two types of bridges that the loggers build with logs on the coast. For longer spans they use logs for stringers with gaps between them and heavy timbers for cross ties. Then they deck it with planking of 4 by 12s or so. You see less and less bridges built this way lately - they normally go concrete and steel now.

For shorter spans over smaller creeks they still build a log/earth bridge. Several heavy logs are used for stringers and are winched tightly together with cable. Then a heavy filter fabric is laid over that. Then a couple of feet of gravel or shot rock, then usually some finer gravel or rock for surfacing.

So in the later case you've pretty much built a humidor. Zero sun gets at the logs and they're kept in a constant damp environment. I've seen pretty old bridges like this taken out. Rot is an issue depending on log species but there's often very nice millable wood left. :cool:

With the timber decked structure however, oh ya, all of the wood will dry right out get beat up by the sun. I'm not a wood expert, but I would tend to think like Alex - you wouldn't want overly dryed brittle wood used structurally in a boat.

[epoxyboy]

Jeez, I did that hike along the West Coast Trail back in '91. The quantity of huge cedar logs washed up along the coast - especially at the Sook end - was unbelievable. At those prices does anybody salvage them?
I especially remember the smell - like when you saw a cedar board, but so strong it was almost overpowering in places.

Pete