The "Shop" is full!

[Donn]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid37/p703a188e46696ebb4bd94a177766aea2/fd1b8817.jpg

Both projects are here now, and cleaned out. This afternoon, UPS will bring me a Milwaukee heat gun with 2 temperature settings, and an accessory kit which includes a spreader tip.

I've never used a heat gun to remove paint (or anything else), so any hints and tips would be appreciated.

More pics at Donn's Shop (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291186715)

[Art Read]

Oh, boy! This is gonna be fun to watch! As for stripping tips, try a search from a couple years ago(?) with Cleek in it. Seems to me he wrote a pretty good summation on the subject. I'm still just trying to get the first "finish" coat on! ;)

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I agree this is going be fun to watch the Sea Bright Skiff looks much better than your original photos of her she is going to be loverly. MUCH better looking than that Van oooh thats nasty

[ 10-29-2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Concordia..41]

Some guys have all the luck :rolleyes:

What do you plan to attack first with the heat gun???

You'll want a set of scrapers - Proprep is my favorite - IMHO you don't need all the different blades, I have both scrapers (large and small), but 99% of the time I use the blades that came with them. All the extra blades that I, of course :rolleyes: , just had to buy - convex, channel, crescent, etc. just sit in the bottom of the bag.

Actually, that's what I'm doing next. Just got all the hardware off a hatch. Extension cord is run and the bag of weapons is sitting on the deck.

Stopped by to let the dog out in the yard, and well, I've got to do something while I'm waiting on her to do her business..

Enjoy!

- M

[Wild Wassa]

Loon, just be aware that, the heat gun is a dangerous tool. By scorching timber that you might want to keep bright.

I've selected a gun with variable settings. As you gun along you will see why. I also use a hair dryer, sometimes this is all that's needed. My hairdryer has two settings, boofy and boofier.

The most important item is the scraper, more so than the gun. Also be aware that removal of paint is a pulling process not a pushing or chiselling process. You will soon understand what the term, 'to check out' means if you do.

My best tips are, don't get too confident when using the gun and contain the mess early.

Donn, I don't feel comfortable giving you advice. You give me advice. You, Meerkat and Dave H, have saved my computing sanity. I owe it to you.

Warren.

ps,Also, pray that you don't have polyurethane on the boats. I've given up praying, it doesn't work.

[ 10-29-2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Donn]

Joe...The Sea Bright looks better because it's sitting next to the Garvey. Just no comparison, looks-wise. The Garvey looks like an inboard coffin...very utilitarian, but a historic vessel in this area.

Margo...I'm starting with the deck of the Garvey, because I want to get it in the water first. I have a handful of scrapers (including the plastic handled ones, and I think I'll practice a little on some painted molding that I pulled out of the house, just to see what the gun'll do, before I point it at the boat.

Warren...why pray it isn't polyurethane? I think there's some on the Garvey, and I know it's on Loon.

UPS just got here. Time to try it out...which nozzle for paint removal...spreader, or reduction, or the gun alone?

[Hugh Paterson]

Tip 1 "Power to yer elbow"
Tip 2, Dont try to "soften" too large an area with the heat gun, the idea is to work on a small area at one time soften, scrape.... soften scrape.... soften scrape, I suggest you start with the clinker built skiff first, working along a plank at a time.
Tip no 3, dont linger in one area with the gun too long or hold it too near to the work (find the happy medium), I use my blowtorch 5 - 6 inches from the painted surface and the paint just about falls off, the electric model is a bit closer, its not got as much grunt. Try not to scorch the wood.
I use a scrasten scraper with the above mentioned pulling action, nothing beats them, I took umpteen layers of paint off a 42 foot boat last month in two days and only used 3 blades, on hardwoods I leave a "burr" edge on the blades when I sharpen them which helps with the removal of heavy layers of paint.
Have fun.....Soften scrape..... soften scrape :eek:
Shug.

[Hugh Paterson]

OOps almost forgot, use a good dustmask and wear goggles and an old hat snot and gumpfff goes everywhere.
Shug

[Wayne Jeffers]

Donn,

What Warren said about pulling, not pushing.

It's so easy to gouge soft wood by pushing a putty-knife type scraper. I like a Red-Devil hook-type pull scraper, about 2 1/2 inches wide.

Use the gun in your left hand to soften a patch of old paint about 2 1/2 or 3 inches wide and 6 or 8 long, then hit it with the scraper using your right hand. (Unless you're a southpaw.)

You'll get the routine soon enough.

Wayne

[Scott Rosen]

What everyone else said. It ain't rocket science. Last winter I removed polyurathane from my cabin overhead. It was a chore, but do-able.

Donn, you probably wasted your money on the extra nozzles. You'll only need the gun itself. I bought the spreader nozzle, tried it once and now it sits in the bottom of some bin somewhere.

Practice first on paint, not varnish. If you scorch the wood on a painted surface, it's not so bad--you'll paint over it.

[Donn]

Gun works great! I practised on the painted trim, and the paint came off readily, so I turned to the Garvey. The top layers came off easily, but the last layer didn't seem to respond...I heated and scraped and heated and scraped (yes, pulling) and heated and scraped...finally I started to see some fiber, and SURPRISE the deck is covered with fiberglass!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid37/p3cf3b454004bafcf38c6215b55051a88/fd1b8800.jpg

The deck I refer to is that gray shiny surface surrounding the cockpits and extending out the bow. It may not show in the pic, but it's extremely unfair (is that a term?)...all roly-poly, but with a pretty good paint job on it. Before I knew it was glass covered, my intent was to strip the paint, sand the wood, and repaint with non-skid.

Can I strip it to glass, then fair the glass with a sander, or do I have to grind off the glass and start over? I know it's heresy, but I don't mind that deck being glassed, as long as it's fair.

[ 10-29-2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: LOON ]

[ishmael]

Donn,

Green with envy over the Seabright. That photo at the top of the thread...!It just looks right. Beautiful boat.

Have fun.

Jack

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by LOON:

Can I strip it to glass, then fair the glass with a sander, or do I have to grind off the glass and start over? I know it's heresy, but I don't mind that deck being glassed, as long as it's fair.Maybe. If you're careful with that heat gun and the glass is not coming loose anywhere.

Bear in mind, though, that you'll be able to do a minimum of fairing without sanding through the glass. If it needs very heavy fairing, you may as well figure on stripping the glass, too.

Wayne

[ 10-29-2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Jeffers ]

[Memphis Mike]

Ya might want to consider covering up
yer concrete pad thar donn.

Take it from me, that mess don't come
off of concrete too easy. ;)

[On Vacation]

Would you be interested in my comments on the glassed garvey, Donn? If so we will need some more info.

[Donn]

Oyster...what do you need to know?

[Concordia..41]

Don't you guys think he should keep the heat off the fiberglass? If it starts coming unglued and lifting??? No practical experience, just doesn't sound like a good idea.

Other than the obvious threat of fire and/or permenant damage, two quickest ways to go wrong with the heat gun:

1. If you're working along a flat surface and you get to an inside corner or an edge (like the little bit standing pround around the cockpit). You'll be working along all happy and proud of yourself and all of a sudden the hot air hits the corner and the heat doesn't have any place to go. Instant scortch.

2. When you've got the heat gun sitting on its butt cooling off, never ever think you can reach over it or step around it to get something. As of about 4 p.m. I now have a spot on my left calf that'll match nicely the scar on the underside of my right arm... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BTW - I think we're all enjoying living vicariously through your projects :D

- M

[ 10-29-2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[On Vacation]

I will give you serveral things to think about and to look for on the decking area.
1.Tap the overall deck with a hammer lightly to see if you may have any delamination. The sound of a low thump will mean solid. The light "Ekk" will be delamination. This means you will need to break the surface and remove the voided area.
2. If the glass appears to be green in color, you will probably be able to peel it up without stripping it of paint.
3.Try sanding the paint with a 60 grit sandpaper and see if it gumms up.
4.If the glass is stuck to the deck, then rough sand it and prime it.
5. The corners appear to be tabed with cloth. Does the weave appear to be a canvas woving patern? If so it is finish cloth.
6 If the resin is green, it is polyester and you should be able to peel it off , also. If it is stuck , then take a small putty knife and get under it. Don't leave it there, if you are going to do it right.

This is a start.

[ 10-29-2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: oyster ]

[Donn]

Margo...I've already felt the bite of the heat gun, and it was from foolishly wiping the scrapings away...that fiberglass stay's hot for quite some time. I set the gun down, unplugged, to cool off on a cobblestone, well out of the way. I didn't use the stand-up feature, but set the gun down with the tip on the cobblestone...makes a great heat sink. It was cool in no time, and I changed nozzles to try the concentrator.

[Donn]

Originally posted by oyster:
I will give you serveral things to think about and to look for on the decking area.
1.Tap the overall deck with a hammer lightly to see if you may have any delamination. The sound of a low thump will mean solid. The light "Ekk" will be delamination. This means you will need to break the surface and remove the voided area.

The glass seems to be sound...I went over it closely, and there is no delamination.

2. If the glass appears to be green in color, you will probably be able to peel it up without stripping it of paint.

The glass appears to be very dark....sort of reddish in color.

3.Try sanding the paint with a 60 grit sandpaper and see if it gumms up.

I sanded the small area that I stripped with 80, and it didn't gum up...it faired pretty well...but there were a few exposed fibers.

4.If the glass is stuck to the deck, then rough sand it and prime it.

It appears to be a good thick coating, and stuck well...just wasn't faired, and since the paint is glossy, it really shows up. Maybe a matte non-skid paint job will look better.

5. The corners appear to be tabed with cloth. Does the weave appear to be a canvas woving patern? If so it is finish cloth.

If you're talking about the covering on the port bow corner, that's copper sheathing. The deepest part of the bottom planking is also sheathed in copper...the previous owner said he did it to protect those sections from ice...he used the boat year round.

6 If the resin is green, it is polyester and you should be able to peel it off , also. If it is stuck , then take a small putty knife and get under it. Don't leave it there, if you are going to do it right.

Definately not green, and I couldn't get under it with the point of a very sharp knife.

[On Vacation]

It could be polyester also if red, just a commercial grade.

I would just sand the total deck with 60 grit, if it is stuck the way you say it is, and prime it. Now we get into what paint are going back with?Fairing it is only as good as the planking under it. I don't remember what you said it was decked over with, but solid wood will not give you a fair deck. . You will cut through the glass if its finish cloth and the joints show highs and lows.

When you deterimine the paint you are going to use, then you can tape a pattern around the railing and roll the paint and non-skid together and then topcoat the second coat to seal it.

[ 10-29-2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: oyster ]

[DutchRub]

Get yurself a good quality paintscraper ( pull type) as well as something to keep it good and sharp-a sharp scraper makes ALL the difference in getting off the heat softened paint I personally use a dremel with a drum type emery cloth attachment to keep mine sharp- alot quicker and less effort than a bastard file-.
I have used a heat gun to strip epoxy off of boats as well-no glass was involved but it softened up the thick old epoxy enough to get under it with a putty knife and rip it off in pieces-beats the tar out of sanding or grinding it off

[ 10-29-2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Dutchrub ]

[Mr. Know It All]

Donn.....Are ya sore yet? :D Heat gun and scraping is hard work and a fine art. Have you figured out the plastic handled scraper won't work for long (melts). I had the same problem as you, with the first layer of paint sticking to the wood and being difficult to remove also. What paint you don't get off with the heat gun you have to sand off with an orbital sander. This gets especially tricky with plywood boats (like my Lyman) because of the thin vaneer of the face layer. Too bad it's not baseball season or you could listen to the Indians game on the radio while scraping. Hang in there and be patient.
Kevin in Ohio

[Donn]

dutch...I'm using pull scrapers, with plastic handles, and 4 sided blades.

Kevin...I only did a square foot of deck, and found fiberglass under the paint. The plastic handle didn't melt, and the bolt holding the 4-sided blade didn't seize.

I'm gonna suspend operations on the deck, and work on the hull tomorrow, it's wood with paint, so I'll get a different experience. I'll have to noodle the fiberglassed deck, because if I rough sand the glass, as Oyster suggests, I ain't gonna do it with the multi-master, and I'll need to buy another tool (Oh No!) like a 5" RO.

[ 10-29-2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: LOON ]

[Dave Fleming]

For sanding that feeberglaz stuff just make sure you get a sander that has an attachment for a vacuum. And wear one of those Tyvek coveralls with masking tape at all openings,plus a good dust mask and goggles too.
That stuff is 'perzon' if the dust/slivers/bits get into your skin. Don't ask me how I know this, please!
:rolleyes:

[Mr. Know It All]

Donn......What Dave said about covering up with safety equipment can't be stressed enough. Depending how old the paint is, it could have lead in it too. I got the worse sinus infection of my life working on my boat the first day. Nose hairs ain't enough :D . Working a few hours at a time is better than trying to do it all in one day too. As Dave would say..."in my opinionated opinion" this is the hardest part of restoration. Watch out for the bottom paint too. Sometimes that stuff can be really nasty and highly toxic. Be careful and have fun smile.gif . I'm looking forward to seeing your progress and thanks for posting the pictures.
Kevin in Ohio

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Actually, I love the little window glazers scraper made by "Richards".... it can be ground on the end to a couple of shapes .. so I have a few of them. They work absolutely excellently for pulling up fittings too... kinda shaped like an hour glass, with a lever end on one end and a veeeery thing flat putty blade the other ..but its tapered in thickness, and made of tempered steel. Lots of control.

[Memphis Mike]

Posted by KIA:
"Nose hairs ain't enough."

He's probably got more hair in his nose
than you got on yer head Kevin. :D

[Gary Bergman]

Invest in a good quality half-face respirator. Us construction guys find them a bearable lifesaver in unknown territory. I prefer Wilson medium. with purple cartridges

[Donn]

No protection except a glove on my scraper hand. I set up the shop vac so it was blowing the dust and scrapings away as I worked...remember..I'm working outside.

[Mr. Know It All]

You may be right MM :D but he's gonna see what I mean when he blows his nose.
Kevin in Ohio

[Roger Stouff]

Hey, Don! I like 'em. You're getting bad as me, dragging home these poor devils. smile.gif

R

[nedL]

Donn, they look fantastic! I'm green with envy :D You've got a couple of winners there. The Hankins looks much nicer all cleaned out.
As a note on stripping the paint with a heat gun. I believe that when the paint is bubbling & lifting, the 'lifting action' actually comes from the expanding water vapor & air that is in the wood fibers directly under the paint. As a result you need a pretty unbroken film of paint for it to work well. As you get down to the first layers of primer that are actually soaked into the wood the primer may not bubble & lift like the top layers because the primer layer is much thinner & porous which allows the expanding air to move through it rather than lifting it.
This is also why heat guns don't work as well on painted metal surfaces - there is no expanding air under the paint to cause the bubbling.
Good luck! smile.gif

[Memphis Mike]

The Garvey is a strange looking boat.
I take it the flat bow is designed to
ride above the water??????? :confused:

[Donn]

Mike..the Garvey is indeed strange looking, but a common workboat style around here. Lots of clam tongers use them, but most are flat bottomed, and outboard powered. That top deck is for working from, and rides well above the surface.

[Stephen Hutchins]

Donn,
My way of paint or varnish removal: Buy small red devil scraper, ditch stock handle and replace with a 8 or 9 inch wooden handle this should take only a minute or two: (drill a hole and cut end of handle with bandsaw to the hole) the long handle will help to keep from burning yourself and it will feel better than the plastic one. After you sharpen the blade, hold the edge of the heat gun with one hand right against the front edge of the scaper being held by the other. Heating and scaping is done in one movement. Keep the gun and scaper moving, if you stop or go too slow you'll burn the wood. This is the fastest way to use the heat gun that I've found so far. It looks like your in for some fun. I hope this method makes it even more enjoyable for you.
-Steve

[Dave Hadfield]

I bought a heat gun for stripping my spars, tried it, and didn't like it. Not enough heat.

So I took a scrap piece of thin sheet metal and bent it around into a fan-shaped flame-spreader and crimped it onto the end of a propane torch. This worked much faster. Tons of heat!

Frankly, I found it was easy to avoid scorching. It did help to have a chair at the right height and a comfortable body posture.

I didn't set anything on fire, I hardly scorched anything, I went through many layers of tenacious old paint zip-zip-zip and I finished the spars bright.

I meant to use the torch on the end of a hose, running from a larger (11lb?) propane bottle (instead of from a throwaway, which is heavier to hold and which needs to stay more or less vertical) but I never got around to it.

The scraper needs to be sharp. If it's dull, your arm gets sore.

I used a face mask with charcoal (?) filter, suitable for dealing with noxious fumes. You really shouldn't breath the vapours from melting old paint. It probably defines toxic.

I like both your boats -- each for it's own role.

As for the garvey, if the resin is still keeping the glass firmly attached, why mess with it? Scrape, sand and paint it again. If it's not quite fair, use a very low-gloss paint. Your other boat is the Cadillac.

[Donn]

Margo...thanks for the Proprep suggestion. Got mine yesterday (with all the blades, despite your warning. I have alot of molding in the house to strip, too.), and what a difference between them and the cheapo orange store scrapers. I'm already thinking about ordering extra handles, so I don't have to mess with those teeny screws as often.

[Wiley Baggins]

Donn,

As Gary and Dave said, a "real" respirator (outdoors or no) is a good idea. Given that you are a "bearded lady," you may need to get a positive pressure unit that filters remotely (belt mounted filter/pump) and blows clean air across your face. Less restrictive than the half-face units listed, and can be had with a face shield (if I remember correctly).

Great looking skiff!

[ 11-27-2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

[Donn]

Wiley...I only did a brief search on supplied air respirators, and they're quite an investment. $80 for a hood, $80 for 25' of hose, and $700 for the AABA (ambient air breathing apparatus). I think I'll take my chances...maybe use a blower to remove the fumes. At my age, after smoking cigarettes for 25 years, cigars for 10, and stripping and refinishing countless antiques, my lungs have gotten quite a punishment already...I doubt if a little more will put me over the top. Something else will get me.

[Wiley Baggins]

Donn,

Good call. Local ventilation is a great and cost-effective option. Sometimes you just need a cedar bucket, not a gold toilet seat (with warmer).

[David N.]

no x-pert here , but I did just finish taking the paint off the topsides and bottom of a Thompson 17', for me the heat gun worked just fine also I used a very flexable putty knife , the heavy knives seemed more prone to digging in ( operator error I'am sure ) while the thin blade would not . As to the paint if it just started to blister and before it changed colors then I would scrape ( I pushed ) , I would not scorch the wood ( I started on the bottom ) this seem to take off the top coats , the primer then came off with another quick pass . ( the primer does not blister , or the primer that was on this boat did not ) and the bottom paint gets real sticky . a good mask is a must , even with a dust collector . After that I sanded with a air long board using 80 grit .
And it was just like work !!

[Lewisboats]

Just a newbie here but I am wondering why no one has suggested fairing and smoothing the top of the deck with thickened epoxy? After all the paint is removed, of course. This would also seal it properly, and help to fill any leftover low spots. Sand, prime and paint after.

Steve