router reccomendation

[chergui]

I'm looking for a router to fix my rail cap which I discussed in this posting (http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72670&highlight=repairing+caprail).

I was hoping someone could give me some advice on a suitable router. My main concern is jointing the rail cap accurately so I can laminate an outer piece on to replace the damaged section. I'll need a good edge guide and will be hand holding it. I would like something powerful enough that it won't get bogged down on hardwoods and do a bad job. I will use it for furniture projects in the future after this. I've never owned a router before and only used one a couple of times. I liked the Festool router (light, with dust collection) but it's rather pricey at $450.. the one advertised in the WB all the time.

Thanks for any tips.

[Jim Ledger]

As far as doing what you want to do, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference what kind you use. Any router needs a method of guiding the bit accurately, be it an edge guide or bearing bit or template. An edge guide will be of no use for any work with a curve.

So, the point is, it's not the router, but the method of guiding it to do the job that's the issue. Can you describe the problem or better yet, post a picture?

[Paul Scheuer]

The bogging-down issue can usually be handled by making multiple passes. No need to get it all one in one pass. I tend to listen to the speed and adjust the depth and feed accordingly.

[kc8pql]

The bogging-down issue can usually be handled by making multiple passes. No need to get it all one in one pass. I tend to listen to the speed and adjust the depth and feed accordingly.

Agreed. If fact, shallow multiple passes usually yields a better surface, reduces the chances of splintering and is safer.

[chergui]

As far as doing what you want to do, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference what kind you use. Any router needs a method of guiding the bit accurately, be it an edge guide or bearing bit or template. An edge guide will be of no use for any work with a curve.

So, the point is, it's not the router, but the method of guiding it to do the job that's the issue. Can you describe the problem or better yet, post a picture?

I restored the pictures in the link in the original posting: http://www3.telus.net/chergui/misc/

I think all the info is in that posting so I won't repeat. But I'm unsure about how much power the router should have. Some are 1.5, some as much as 4. I don't need a top end one but I don't want some piece of junk either. Been there and done that with other tools.

[JimConlin]

What I see in the photos is a section of toerail that's been bumped loose and bruised a bit. What's needed beyond removing the afflicted part, stripping it, re-bedding it , maybe patching in a small dutchman and refinishing?

[S B]

Pick one up at Can tire, it's not the router thats important but the bits. You need one with 1/2 and 1/4 collets. It isn't difficult to set up a guide for the router to follow, just takes a bit of experiment ,to get it right. If my experience is any help to you, let the router take a little bit off at a time, they do a better job and you don't smoke the bit in the process.

[David G]

chergui,

Not sure exactly what you're gonna use a router for here. If I'm guessing right - from the description and fotos - about the scope of work to be done... a good quality router in the 1.5 - 2.25 hp range will be perfectly adequate. It's also the size that is most generally useful.

Specific recommendations. There are a lot of good routers out there. These are the three I know best and have been happy enough with to buy repeats of:

Porter Cable 690 - has been a workhorse in the industry for a lotta years. Basic, tough. Oldest tech, and noisiest of the three.

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690LR-Fixed-Horsepower-Router/dp/B00005QEVQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1210907419&sr=1-1

Bosch 1617 EVS. - Also solid. Quiet. Love the feel of the wood handles. Bosch may be my favorite mfgr. in general.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-4-Horsepower-Variable-Speed-Router/dp/B00004TKHV/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1210907419&sr=1-9

Milwaukee 5615-21 - These are the easiest to one-hand, with that unique, nifty strap. Very quiet. Seem rock solid.

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-5615-21-1-3-BodyGrip-Router/dp/B00005Q7D7/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1210907612&sr=1-33

The only other factor you might want to consider is whether you want or need a plunge router. If you envision yourself getting into more woodworking - esp. furniture - it might be useful. If so, you might consider the kits that come with both the fixed (standard) base, and a plunge base for the same motor. I know both the PC and the Bosch I mentioned offer that option.

For a serious professional, who uses his tools hard, and has exacting standards, the Festool is probably a good thought. For a woodworker new to routers, probably not worth the money.

[soba]

My vote for the Bosch.

I use routers a lot for my work...the porter-cables were good, but they are heavy, and at one point I burnt out 3 in a row...which is when I tried the Freud brand. They are really powerful, but also heavy and NOISY! The Hitachi I bought (3 hp) is a good one too, but it generally stays in the router table. My hand goes to the Bosch the most, and the plunge base is simply the best and easiest to set and use.
Never used a Festool, as they have only recently become available in my area. I also have a Craftsman router that simply won't die, although it only takes 1/4 " bits, and nearly everything I have is 1/2".

just my $0.02

[chergui]

Well, the first problem will be to get the rail to lie flat again. I don't know why it is uplifted. I thought maybe the screw had broken but I couldn't tell. There was all sorts of gunk in the square drive screw heads and I had to drill them out. I can force the rail down by hand, and I'm unsure if a screw will make it lie flat again. But I removed two screws beyond the damage so I could wedge the rail up and clean up under it. The rail lifted up the same way. So it may just go down again with screws. I'll find out this weekend. If not I will have to epoxy it down. And I'm unsure of how to go about clamping it down.

The rail is made up of 4 pieces width-wise. So the outer piece that is mangled from hitting the boat beside me, I'm going to route off and then glue on a replacement piece. I see no other way of jointing it than with a router. It's not going to happen doing it with a hand plane unless I take the entire thing off and do it in a shop, which isn't an option.

I'd be very interested in clamping ideas and jigs for the router to help get a nice joint.

For clamping I was thinking of building a small frame basically with 2x4's. Run the frame back into the cockpit where I could clamp it in place. That would give me something rigid and raised off the deck so I could add some hold-down clamps (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=31150&cat=1,43838 ) to it and apply pressure to the uplifted portion while it's glued in place. Seems like overkill but if it doesn't go down...

[Ron Williamson]

If I'm seeing it right,the last piece is glued to the outside and hangs below the sheer.
If this is the case,you only need a ball bearing guide on the bottom of a straight router bit.
The boat itself will guide the bearing.
R

[Mrleft8]

Well.... Just to muddy up the water a bit.... I'd go with a DeWalt plunge router. The straight edge on the base will make using a batten for a staightedge/guide easier, and more accurate.

[Brian Palmer]

I also have a Craftsman router that simply won't die, although it only takes 1/4 " bits, and nearly everything I have is 1/2".

just my $0.02

Glad to hear this. I just bought an older one for $30 that was made in the USA.

Brian

[chergui]

If I'm seeing it right,the last piece is glued to the outside and hangs below the sheer.
If this is the case,you only need a ball bearing guide on the bottom of a straight router bit.
The boat itself will guide the bearing.
R

That's right, the rail overhangs the shear and was rounded with a roundover bit. Do you have any links to a ball bearing guide that I could look at?

[Ron Williamson]

http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=285
Be aware,it may be better to use a fence/batten/ guide,like they said above,especially if the sufaces aren't square to each other and you intend to route away the whole rail.
The consequences from over cutting are much harder to fix, making the cure worse than the disease.
This is my router recommendation

http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_27_40028_-1_684400_192199_192137
It's a lot of router,but it's pretty sporty especially compared to the equivalent Porter-Cable,which is pretty clunky.
R

[Mrleft8]

The bearings are part of the router bit. It's a roller bearing on the end of (just under) the cutters. Or conversly there are bits made with bearings just above the cutters for use with top templates.

[Mrleft8]

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=42-204&search=Flush%20Trim%20Router%20Bits Voila!

[kc8pql]

Are you sure you want to do this repair yourself? From your questions you seem to have limited experience with routers. A cap rail with compound curves and other than right angles may not be the best thing to start with. A router can do a lot of damage in the blink of an eye. Maybe you know a local woodworker who would be willing to help?

[chergui]

Are you sure you want to do this repair yourself? From your questions you seem to have limited experience with routers. A cap rail with compound curves and other than right angles may not be the best thing to start with. A router can do a lot of damage in the blink of an eye. Maybe you know a local woodworker who would be willing to help?

Yes, very limited! I'm not going to attempt it haphazardly. I may even put it off for a while and just get the rail re-fastened first. Because the rail cap overhangs the shear, I think this is possible. The bumps and bruises to the outside of the rail aren't all that deep actually. There is only one part underneath the overhanging rail that is ripped right out but it's not that noticeable. The only problem with leaving it is that it will look extremely ugly, mostly because the rail was absolutely perfect. If I re-varnish it, it's just going to look bruised. There are other dents on the same side that I will also one day replace. I may as well figure this out now because it's inevitable that I'll have to do this in the future anyway. I do know a cabinetmaker who loves sailing and could give me a hand.

[neilm]

Fine Woodworking did an article last year on routers and their pick was the Trinton 2.5 hp. I bought one and think it's fine. I do have problems seeing my work however but that is probably common. The big advantage is you an change the bit in a router table. You can order it from Amazon.com

Neil

[kc8pql]

I do know a cabinetmaker who loves sailing and could give me a hand.
There you go. Ask him if he'd mind taking a look at it and give you some ideas about how to fix it. After looking at it, he may have a method you haven't considered.

[Yeadon]

I've been thinking about a new router, too. Something that's a little easier to set to depth than my old Sears.

I would probably get a Milwaukee, or a Bosch. Everything I've ever used by Milwaukee feels rock solid. Everything I've used from Bosch just feels good in the hand. Both are important qualities. If anything, I'll probably just watch Craigslist until a sweetheart deal pops up for a $100 or so.

That said, Jim Ledger was right, the truth is in how you guide the bit.

[Nicholas Carey]

I've got two routers, the Bosch 1617EVS and the P-C 890 (One I bought and one I won in a contest at Woodcraft). They've both came with two bases, fixed and plunge.

They're both quite nice. The Bosch fixed base is very nice. Comfy wooden handles, low center of gravity. The P-C 890 has some very nice features, though -- depth is adjustable from the bottom, for instance, so it's a nice router for the router table.

I'd say you can't go wrong with either of them.

[ssor]

If all you need to do is round off a repair, a spoke shave and a small plane will probable serve with a couple of good gouges . Make haste slowly. Sometimes hand tools are the best way to approach a problem.

[RodB]

Take a look at the following url, I think you will find it very informative. You can hardly go wrong with the Dewalt 621 if you only have one router. Lots to consider and Pat Warner covers all of it.... Good luck.

http://www.patwarner.com/

http://www.patwarner.com/dw621.html

http://www.patwarner.com/621_offset.html


RodB