charcoal briquets and epoxy

[boylesboats]

Hey guys and gals (not you Dutch)..
I was playin' with an idea adding filler in epoxy..
I like to have a nice glueline for this project, and I want it to stand out..

Anybody ever mixed pulverized charcoal briquets in epoxy to get a nice black colored glueline?

I am hoping this would work as filler and glue up..

[paladin]

works fine...add a litle sulpher and KNO3 at the same time....or KCL04

[crawdaddyjim50]

The Gougen bros. use carbon black as a pigment. They did it to replicate seam tar on teak decks. I would think that finely ground charcoal would work. But you can get real black from the hardware and it is fairly cheap. Look for graphite.

[Tar Devil]

works fine...add a litle sulpher and KNO3 at the same time....or KCL04

And wait for it to "kick off?" :)

[Canoez]

We buy a powdered version of carbon black (Lamp Black) that is intended for mixing with epoxy - you get a jet black color. I'll take a look for it in the logbook tomorrow.

A little goes a LONG way.

[redbopeep]

You can get some Lamp Black (carbon black) in a jar about the size of a pint jar at art supply stores for just a couple dollars.

[boylesboats]

Graphite powder is not I wanted.. it okay for slickin' up bottom of boat.. but I am not working on the bottom..
I am gluing up breast hook

No no no no... no saltpetre and sulfur guys... I got lots of that in the baseme..... Uh oh :eek: oop! I didn't say that or did I say that? I don't need to blow things apart while gluing it up...
Oooo man.. what a wasted effort

I got a old electric coffee grinder, and big bag of charcoal briguets.. Since I already have the stuff here, why should I go to art store and get some lamp black?....
But, isn't lamp black is soot from inside oil lamp chimney?

Another thing is easy to get a hold of is "bone black"(charred animal bones)... sometime it is found inside charcoal filter of your drinking water filtration systems.. No, I am not kiddin'... You mean they didn't tell ya? Google it up sometime...

[redbopeep]

I'd rather have a barbecue with my charcoal and use a nice, inexpensive, easy to obtain fine powdered carbon black from the local art supply store.

But it seems like you're done with the barbecue for the season...

[boylesboats]

I'd rather have a barbecue with my charcoal and use a nice, inexpensive, easy to obtain fine powdered carbon black from the local art supply store.

But it seems like you're done with the barbecue for the season...

Actually, somebody brought over a bag of Kingsford during family cookout last month

I use real wood like apple and hickory... I don't like that wood by-products in my smoker/grill..
Yup! I even cook outdoor while it freezin' and snowin'

[Canoez]

Larry, I'm sure the charcoal gives good color, it's the binders and what-not that might be in the charcoal as an additive - who knows how it will affect the epoxy.

The stuff we use is from an outfit called Ferro. It's their F6331 black.

Ferro Corporate Headquarters
1000 Lakeside Avenue
Cleveland, Ohio 44114-7000
Telephone: (216) 641-8580

Give them a call and I'm sure they can point you to a distributor. The stuff is pretty cheap and a small amount will be a lifetime supply. Think the container was around $15.

[redbopeep]

Actually, somebody brought over a bag of Kingsford during family cookout last month

I use real wood like apple and hickory... I don't like that wood by-products in my smoker/grill..
Yup! I even cook outdoor while it freezin' and snowin'

So if you didn't pay for the charcoal, chuck it, give it to charity, whatever...

But, you'll probably like using carbon black that is packaged as a pigment already. :)

[Hughman]

briquets have a lot of waste products in their composition, fuel oil, oxidizers, misc combustibles, etc. The chemistry is unpredictable, and the reason people use real charcoal is because they object to the noxious and toxic deposits on their food.

try it for color on a scrap piece, but it would be hard to make a case for long term bonding stability

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Hey guys and gals (not you Dutch)..
I was playin' with an idea adding filler in epoxy..
I like to have a nice glueline for this project, and I want it to stand out..

Anybody ever mixed pulverized charcoal briquets in epoxy to get a nice black colored glueline?

I am hoping that would work as filler and glue up..

I laminated a guitar neck using double diagonal Carbon Fibre in epoxy - made for a nicely visible black glue line about a sixteenth wide.

DO NOT TRY TO HAND PLANE THIS - but it cuts OK with power saw or router bits.

[boylesboats]

I still haven't ground up charcoal yet.. I am waiting to see if anybody comes up another options... But graphite is out of picture..

[Jay Greer]

When we bought "Bright Star" the deck seams were obviously in need of reefing and repaying. Seams were cracked and some material was missing. At the time, I thought that it was just old seam compound.
Now, I curse the person that thought blackened epoxy was a good idea!
Not only are the seams still in need of reefing and repaying but that epoxy is harder than granit! Wood, in this case, teak moves; epoxy doesn't. The wood pulled away from the epoxy and, so far, normal, reefing tools won't touch it. I have power tools that will, most likely, work. But, right now we are interested in sailing! My advise to anyone who is planning to keep a boat for more than ten years is to avoid the above described method of filling seams!
Jay

[boylesboats]

When we bought "Bright Star" the deck seams were obviously in need of reefing and repaying. Seams were cracked and some material was missing. At the time, I thought that it was just old seam compound.
Now, I curse the person that thought blackened epoxy was a good idea!
Not only are the seams still in need of reefing and repaying but that epoxy is harder than granit! Wood, in this case, teak moves; epoxy doesn't. The wood pulled away from the epoxy and, so far, normal, reefing tools won't touch it. I have power tools that will, most likely, work. But, right now we are interested in sailing! My advise to anyone who is planning to keep a boat for more than ten years is to avoid the above described method of filling seams!
Jay

Not about filling seams... It about bonding (gluing) pieces together.. and wood isn't Teak..
Beside that, Teak very oily to glue.. Epoxy does not bonds to Teak very well

[switters]

At this point I think it would be best for you to try it out and let us know how it worked. I use powdered coffee tins to mix epoxy in. Sometimes a little coffee is still in there when I mix, it seems to bond just fine.

[Jay Greer]

Not about filling seams... It about bonding (gluing) pieces together.. and wood isn't Teak..
Beside that, Teak very oily to glue.. Epoxy does not bonds to Teak very well I am glad to hear that you are not using teak. You didn't mention what wood you are using nor where the seams will be.
I still would never use epoxy in conjunction with teak, especially for creating black seams on a deck.
Jay

[jerry bark]

here's an idea: take some cotton cloth and convert it to charcloth then grind that and use it. no worry about additives, pure cotton converted to carbon. just make a mini retort out of an empty can of some sort and nestle it in a pile of that kingsford that you hate.

cheers
jerry

[norseman]

Hi Boyles, I used an electric coffee grinder and a couple pieces of charcoal to make a graphite mix for the hatch here. You can see the rear of it, it's only a motor hatch so no biggee if it doesn't last. But so far so good. Seams are about 6mm wide and 10 mm deep,everything glued and payed with graphite/epoxy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2528832868_115ba1732d.jpg

[boylesboats]

Okay guys here the start..
After I ground a couple of chunks, sifted it through flour sifter..

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/blackisblack.jpg

All I need to do now is add a little cabsoil silica along with charcoal into mixed epoxy...

[boylesboats]

Hi Boyles, I used an electric coffee grinder and a couple pieces of charcoal to make a graphite mix for the hatch here. You can see the rear of it, it's only a motor hatch so no biggee if it doesn't last. But so far so good. Seams are about 6mm wide and 10 mm deep,everything glued and payed with graphite/epoxy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2528832868_115ba1732d.jpg

Very contrasting.. I like it..

[boylesboats]

Okay... I mixed a batch of epoxy, little of grounded charcoal, bit of Cabsoil Silica... It is blacker than black..
And here is this glue up...
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/Breasthookandblackenepoxy.jpg

Note: Be sure to mask surroundng areas.. Charcoal will stain..

[switters]

so far so good, the breasthook looks good too. Thanks for posting the pic.

[boylesboats]

I struck off excess epoxy, removed tape... Now I got to do is wait till it sets up, grind and sand the breasthook flush... I made it to sit 1/4" higher, so I can crown it toward gunn'ls..

[switters]

follow up on the charcoal method?

dont leave us hanging here.

[boylesboats]

It sets up great, remained black.. I am still sanding it smooth.. I can't wait to lay some varnish down over it..

[boylesboats]

follow up on the charcoal method?

dont leave us hanging here.
Alright here is review.......
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/Breasthookandblackenepoxy.jpg
Okay here is the results, after sanding with 80 grits.. I got a bit more sanding to do, with 100 grits..
It shaped and sanded like woodflour.. I added Cabsoil Silica in this batch just to be on the safe side.. In the pictures below there is fine black lines where breasthook is attached to gunn'ls
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_00016.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_00017.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_00018.jpg

[switters]

way to get outside the envelope and share, I was wondering if the charcoal would stain the hell out of the surrounding wood when sanded but it looks like that wasn't a problem.

[boylesboats]

way to get outside the envelope and share, I was wondering if the charcoal would stain the hell out of the surrounding wood when sanded but it looks like that wasn't a problem.

Upon grinding it to shape.. I start by grinding where the dust blows away from the work..
After I wipe the area to check the progress, I noticed there hardly any blackening on a white paper towel.. I am surprised.. With graphite, it'll marks the hell out of your work area..

But anyway.. I switched to Random Orbits Sander with 50 grits, then to 80 grits. still no signs of black anywhere, but in the glue joint itself..

[Tar Devil]

It sure looks nice!

[boylesboats]

It sure looks nice!

It feels good too... It fits lifting hand very nicely

[woodboat]

Just to add a twist, I use Portland Cement as an epoxy filler to get a nice deep gray seam. Has worked well for me in the past, and I intend to do this to some (home-made) pine decking I am currently installing and will be staining with a red (cranberry) stain prior to clear coating with epoxy followed by three coats of Cetol M. Should be interesting result imo - if I can find this thread in three weeks or so, I'll post the results. ...

btw... the Cetol will 'muddy' the stain (and the gray lines) so the contrast will be minimized - an effect I am looking for since my seams will not be uniform (due to my lack of skill and equipment). ...

[boylesboats]

So portland cement really works?..

[JimD]

Nice looking breasthook, Mr Boyle.

[boylesboats]

Nice looking breasthook, Mr Boyle.

Thank JimD...
I already have second coat of Spar Urethane applied today.. Sorry that I didn't take a snapshot of my progress.. I gotten carried away applying Urethane to slotted gunn'ls as well.. Gettin' it all sealed in first two coats...
Geee, I do not enjoy painting, even when bending over lookin' under that breasthook while brushing that crap on... Woooooo, what a head rush....

[pila]

I did the toe rails on my old boat with 4 oz glass cloth and West System epoxy/507 clear hardener after staining. It was beautiful, but I put only three coats of varnish over it, and the sun got to it within about four months. Now the 4 oz glass can be seen, so now I have to rip it off and do it the old way. I used Epiphanes varnish, which is supposed to be good stuff for UV, but just not enough coats I would guess.