Waterbased Poly?

[esingleman]

I've been using this Minwax waterbased poly on some of my woodworking projects. For example I sanded and refinished my workbench with it, I use it as a sealer underneath paint for cabinets, and have used it for a top surface on tables among other uses.

The stuff dries in two hours and be burnished up for a second coat. Christ you can build up six coats in a weekend easy.

Although this stuff does not have any UV blockers, I was considering using it on my oars and spars maybe. Hell, if it ends up pealing back to the wood from UV damage, a quick sand an reapplication won't take too long.

Or is there a waterbased spar urethane out there? Something witha nice amber color that would dry as fast.

[Jay Greer]

Water based analine dye can be added to water based poly. It will give a pleasing color for several seasons but will eventualy fade. So will the color of the wood which will turn ash grey under the poly.
Jay

[esingleman]

What causes the grey color in the wood? I assume that if you put down enough coats there will be adequate moisture protection.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Systems 3 has a 2 part LPU clear coat in gloss and satin.

It is crystal clear and does not darken the wood like petroleum based varnish, but epoxy coating the wood first gives comparable color prior to clearcaoting.

Dries to recoat in under 30 minutes. Several coats doable in a day.

No stink, water cleanup.

[esingleman]

Systems 3 has a 2 part LPU clear coat in gloss and satin.

It is crystal clear and does not darken the wood like petroleum based varnish, but epoxy coating the wood first gives comparable color prior to clearcaoting.

Dries to recoat in under 30 minutes. Several coats doable in a day.

No stink, water cleanup.

Ok, but does it have UV blockers? because if it doesn't, then whatever you put under it will be suceptible to breakdown, right?

[boylesboats]

I've been using this Minwax waterbased poly on some of my woodworking projects. For example I sanded and refinished my workbench with it, I use it as a sealer underneath paint for cabinets, and have used it for a top surface on tables among other uses.

The stuff dries in two hours and be burnished up for a second coat. Christ you can build up six coats in a weekend easy.

Although this stuff does not have any UV blockers, I was considering using it on my oars and spars maybe. Hell, if it ends up pealing back to the wood from UV damage, a quick sand an reapplication won't take too long.

Or is there a waterbased spar urethane out there? Something witha nice amber color that would dry as fast.

That stuff is no go around water..
I used that crap before on interior projects.. I didn't like the result. It looks cloudy to me...
It doesn't have the body like oil based poly..
Ended up scraping the project and start over.. and use Minwax oil based poly..

System 3 have water-based products.. A bit costly thou...

[boylesboats]

What causes the grey color in the wood? I assume that if you put down enough coats there will be adequate moisture protection.

sun bleaching along with water causes the gray color.. it'll darken and deepen after every season

[kc8pql]

Ok, but does it have UV blockers? because if it doesn't, then whatever you put under it will be suceptible to breakdown, right?

Yes, System Three clear coat does contain UV blockers. It was originally formulated for applying over their two part waterborne LPU paint to give a high gloss wet look. It's more difficult to use than single part water based urethane though. It's more like using AwlGrip or Imron.

[Todd Bradshaw]

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/hf%20010%20copy.jpg

The can says that it's formulated to provide maximum UV protection for outside use. I used it last year on a couple of paddles and some canoe gunwales that I wanted a satin finish on and it seems to be working, although I generally don't leave varnished items out in the weather much. Application is similar to most water-based varnish, the biggest bugaboo being that it dries pretty quickly, so you don't have an awful lot of time to mess with it. You need to apply it evenly and move on. I even sprayed it when I put it on a mandolin neck and it went on very nicely and seems pretty hard. It dries water-clear. When I want it golden I add a few drops of amber tint made for that purpose for guitar builders. I bought the varnish at a home improvement store.

[boylesboats]

Todd,
I haven't noticed those at my local hardware store.. I ought to check into that..

[Wild Wassa]

I painted the exterior timber of our home, which is Douglas Fir, in a 2 pack waterbased marine polyurethane ... Aquacote Clear. I put it on the timber without a primer.

I think I made the right decision. Aquacote Clear is everything I expect it to be ... still perfect after 3 years.

Here on the edge of the Australian Alps, the temperatures can be extreme, +40C for weeks on end, down to -11C (the coldest recorded) in winter. But mostly -2 to -7C. The light is very intense here because of the clean air and the UV reading most days is from very high to extreme.

You need to buy quality 2 pack polyurethane if you want good results and you are looking at about $80 per litre ... if you want the good stuff. The cheap poly is just that, cheap and nasty.

I've just coated an interior timber floor in 2 pack water based marine polyurethane tinted with high stability pigments. I don't use analine dyes because of their low stability and their reputation for going patchy. I have great faith in the quality and longevity of 2 pack water based polyurethane for both interior and exterior use.

Warren.

[Paul Girouard]

Dalys Aqua Spar , nice amber cast to it. I've used it for drawer boxes , cabinet interiors , window surrounds etc .

Not sure how it would hold up outside , BUT it is sold for that use.

[AstoriaDave]

Also a devotee of the S3 2-part LPU, which I used exclusively on the Bartender I built. Yes, it does have UV protection. No, it is not difficult to work with, although because it is water reduced, you have to control the humidity when applying it. In my case, that meant spraying the shop floor with a couple quarts of water to bring the humidity to the 60-70% range (or higher). It dries quickly, which means rolling and tipping has to be done with dispatch. Also, I thinned to the max (about 25% added water), which made it easier to work with.

A buddy has used the MinWax one-part water-reduced polyurethanes and swears by them.

The only knock I might give the stuff is that it does not level as well as a solvent-reduced paint, but what can you expect if the reducer is only one component.

The 2-part LPU is extremely tough when it has reached full cure, much tougher than the one-part polyurethanes. Worth the extra hassle, I think.

[esingleman]

Thanks for all of the information and individual results. I really haven't read anything here that has convinced me to go with a waterbased poly over a traditional varnish other than curing time, and since I am mostly a purist at heart, I will probably just wait the exttra time it takes to just varnish.

I am going to open a new thread with a few varnish questions.

[Mrleft8]

Just me I'm sure but..... The very idea of using a water based finish on a piece that lives in/on the water seems counterintuitive.

[esingleman]

I am not an expert on paints, but the water is just the vehicle for delivering the solids, once it evaporates and the poly cures, cross-links with itself or whatever it does, water is not going to remove the finish.

I think someday we will eventually get to having a waterbased spar urethane for boat building that gives us most of what we like from varnish, because we are heading that way with al the environmental stuff. I just don't think the chemists are there yet, plus the boatbuilding community will need some history/data before it is fully supported.

[AstoriaDave]

I am not an expert on paints, but the water is just the vehicle for delivering the solids, once it evaporates and the poly cures, cross-links with itself or whatever it does, water is not going to remove the finish.Absolutely correct. If you use a water-reduced two-part LPU paint like System Three's, the cross-linker goes into the paint with each use, and remains viable for several hours (good for at least 2-3 coats out of that batch). Then you need to renew the cross-linker for more coats.

BTW, I am a chemist; most paint formulators are very aware of restrictions on VOC content of paints, especially for markets with compromised airsheds (eg., the LA basin), and provide products with low VOC, typically water-reduced materials. Sometimes it is very difficult to make this work, viz., Weldwood contact cement in the water-based formulation is not as successful as their solvent-based glue (red can) for some applications.

[merlinron]

although i've never yet used a water based varnish, i would think you're going to see more and more of it showing up on the shelves.
the latest and greatest automotive paints are water based and said to be gobs better than the more traditional stuff. Mercedes, and i believe BMW also, paints thier cars with a water based paint these days( maybe they all do now). most likeky they have stuff that you and i can't get ahold of at this time yet, but it's only a mater of time 'till the same stuff they use is commonly available. if it holds up on cars, i would think it would hold up on boats, given the neglect and abuse a car's paint surface recieves.

[boylesboats]

Only time will tell...
As the oil prices and the way its been... Oil-based paint may be the thing of past

[Canoez]

We used the Minwax 1 part water-base satin polyurethane on some kitchen cabinets. We were concerned about the yellowing of the oil based poly. It was applied over an oil-based stain.

It was pretty good, but as everyone notes, you have to be careful about how thick you build it up as you start to go milky with more than 3 or 4 coats. We applied it to a maple edge on the counter top and I was suprised about how well it did resist the water once cured. The finish seemed to be a bit soft, but otherwise was alright. Not great, but alright.

I used some of the Varithane brand that Todd showed on some furniture. Don't remember exactly what, so it must be OK.

I haven't tried it on exterior or immersed surfaces so can't say anything about that.

[Thorne]

Boyles -

The oil in paint is Linseed oil...so it shouldn't become any pricier than other farm crops -- they all take petroleum to produce.

[boylesboats]

Boyles -

The oil in paint is Linseed oil...so it shouldn't become any pricier than other farm crops -- they all take petroleum to produce.

thanks... I merely forgot all about linseed oil...

[Thorne]

Now in MY part of MO, we've got some big windfarms coming online, so that may reduce the amount of Arab oil (and $$) it takes to produce linseed oil...we shall see.

Back to the topic -- I'd sure like to see some of this stuff tested outdoors. I think it was Classic Yacht in the UK that is running some varnish tests, with pieces exposed outdoors continually for over 4 years now...

[boylesboats]

Now in MY part of MO, we've got some big windfarms coming online, so that may reduce the amount of Arab oil (and $$) it takes to produce linseed oil...we shall see.

Back to the topic -- I'd sure like to see some of this stuff tested outdoors. I think it was Classic Yacht in the UK that is running some varnish tests, with pieces exposed outdoors continually for over 4 years now...

Well my pirogue is not far behind.. It's about 4 years old.. It been outdoor in the weather all that time.. It have darken a bit to a nice amber tone..

Inverted to prevent rainwater from filling up the hull, turning it into a swimming pool for mosquitoes

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_0009.jpg


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/DCP_0007-1.jpg

and photo of bresthook on the same pirogue taken earlier today with the very same camera

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/boylesboats/Breasthook.jpg

It is 4 coats of Minwax's Helsman Spar Urethane...

[esingleman]

I have used the Helmsman's spar urethane on a test piece, but it is loaded with VOCs, and is not waterbased. If I had to choose between that and good old traditional varnish, I'd go with the latter.

[boylesboats]

I have used the Helmsman's spar urethane on a test piece, but it is loaded with VOCs, and is not waterbased. If I had to choose between that and good old traditional varnish, I'd go with the latter.

Nothing wrong with good old fashioned homemade varnish.. I am tempted to try it sometime