Electric Piccolo Canoe

[John A. Campbell]

A couple of years ago I built the "Piccolo" sailing canoe in glued lapstrake (a Bob Baker design) and have found it to be somewhat unweildy, probably due to my lack of sailing experience. I am thinking about converting her to electric using the smallest Minnkota trolling motor (30 lb. thrust) incorporated into the rudder. I would reinforce the aft stem and about 18" of the keel from the aft end looking forward with 3/4" marine ply and 6 oz. glass cloth. The rudder would follow the same design as the existing rudder but would have a vertical channel in it to accomodate the trolling motor shaft (1 1/4" diameter). The forward end of the rudder would be 2 1/4" thick as would the aft stem. The rudder would be tapered aft to achieve a reasonably nice appearance and only the motor would be exposed at the lower portion of the rudder with the c/l of the prop in line with bottom of keel. The shaft would be covered with mahogany as is the complete rudder. The control head of the trolling motor would be relocated inside of the boat for controlling motor speed only.....the rudder would incorporate a yoke which would be steered with foot pedals as is now the case. I know something like this has been done by others and would like to have some feedback.

I am especially interested in a recommendation for a hinge arrangement to connect the rudder to the aft stem......perhaps a pair of heavy duty piano hinges, one on each side of the rudder and stem ? Or is something else available designed for this type of assembly? The standard gudgeon/pintle arrangement won't work as the gudgeon would be too wide for the stem. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

I am continuing work on the electric Victor Slocum as time permits but wanted to get out on Lake Belton real soon in some sort of electric craft real soon without spending a lot of sheckles.

[Thorne]

The second part is easy -- several outfits make pintle and gudgeons for curved stems, or you can modify existing pintles into gudgeons with a simple hacksaw & powerdrill sex-change operation.

;0 )http://www.duck-trap.com/rfittings-o.jpg

Ducktrap carried something similar in the past -


http://www.woodenboat.com/forum//showthread.php?t=56587

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1507382

http://www.rigrite.com/Hardware/Rudder_Hardware/Pintles&Gudgeons.htm#Rudder%20Gudgeons


The first part we'll want to hear from some experienced canoe folks on. My uneducated guess is that the stem and bottom will be fine as they are == if they were strong enough for sailing, they'll be strong enough for the electric motor.

Shop around and see if you can find a used bow-mount Minn Kota -- they come with the foot controller and are easy to cut down as you describe. I have one in the garage and will get aroundtuit someday...

[RonW]

Check this out, you use a trolling motor but you take the head or control and move it to a convenient location, you don't have to twist around sideways to steer..

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/special/etm.html

[Thorne]

Here's a thread on cutting down trolling motors -

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19160&highlight=trolling+motor
http://www.stevproj.com/FrlcMtr2.jpeg

[Todd Bradshaw]

I kinda' wonder if you even need the rudder at all -- maybe just some sort of clean-looking mount for the cut-down shaft and the bulb/prop portion with ears that go to the pedals and a place up forward to stick the control/throttle assembly. When we put a trolling motor on a square-stern canoe, or one with a side-mount bracket we don't have a rudder and steering works great by just turning the motor.

By the way, you could get by with half that much thrust if you can find a smaller motor. We used to power my Dad's 14' extra-wide sportsman's canoe with two aboard using an old Minn Kota 35 which had about 18 lbs. of thrust. It would go at hull speed, or at least close enough to it that paddling hard to help the motor out, one time when we were trying to out run an approaching storm, didn't make any difference in speed.

[Woxbox]

I agree with Todd. You're making it more complicated than it need be. The motor comes with a clamp and bearing -- can't you skip the rudder and adapt that to the boat? Or is your main concern the aesthetics -- don't want plastic and metal hanging off the stern? If that's the case, you could probably take apart the clamp and install the bearing in a wooden bracket that could be attached to the stern in such a way that it would spread the stress around enough that you wouln't have to modify the boat at all. Put a wooden yoke on top of the motor shaft, and all that would be left showing would be the shaft below the bracket. Keep in mind that being able to tilt up the motor and having give in it if it strikes bottom are very good things to have.

[Tom Robb]

Piccolos are beautiful boats. I think I'd try to hide that utilitarian looking motor rather than spoil her looks - it'd be like combat boots on a honey in a bikini.
Piano hinges just wouldn't be right either. The hardware you've got ought to work. After all, it's not a firebreathing bass boat.

[John A. Campbell]

Thanks, guys, for the fine information. I drew the rudder today and have it so the wiring will not be exposed except where it passes from the rudder directly into the stem through a short piece of 1/2" plastic tubing......one would have to look pretty close to see it. I really want the rudder as a nice piece of varnished mahogany to complement the mahogany trim on the boat......really don't want to see anything resembling an outboard hanging off the stern although I recognize the risk of the rudder not having "kick - up" capability.

The rudder will be made in two "half sections" of 18 mm Okoume in a mirror image and with channels routed in them with an overarm pin router to contain the trolling motor shaft epoxied ( microballoons mixture) and the wiring raceway. There will be Honduras mahogany laminated to the Okoume to dress it up and add a bit more side strength. I'll be using the Rig-Rite hardware mentioned in Thorne's response and will have them ship the pieces undrilled so I can cut and fasten them to suit the installation. Also, I've decided to use a nice tiller to control the rudder......a slender one of mahogany or ash and with a bit of arc in it to add some class....something like the tillers used on Nutshell Prams

Once again.....many thanks to all of you for the fine information......I'll be posting pics (or more likely get someone else to do that for me) when the project's complete.

[Thorne]

Somewhere there are photos on the web of nearly the same setup, they ran the wires thru the tiller a ways, then dropped them to a twist-on connector that lead to the battery wiring.

Another unfortunate victim of the Imagestation scam, the great photos by Steve M. have all gone away, can't find a thing on the Internet or this forum that shows the motor built into the rudder.
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4790&highlight=rudder

And you can make the "rudder" a kickup one, as when the motor is running it will be pushing forward quite strongly. Only if you set up some sort of rotating motormount within the rudder stock to allow the motor to be turned 180 degrees would the kickup design not work.

[John A. Campbell]

Thorne, right now I'm enjoying a glass of Robert Mondavi merlot on an empty stomach having spent several hours successfully building a real nice looking rudder for electric Piccolo including the necessary routed slots for the motor shaft and wiring raceway. Offhand I can't see how a kick-up rudder could be incorporated since the trolling motor shaft is bonded into the rudder which, in turn, is pintled onto the reinforced stem. The stem on this boat angles aft at about 40 degrees and the leading edge of the rudder is, of course, the same whereas the trolling motor shaft is set at 90 degrees. However, if the merlot is not fogging my brain too much, I think a shear pin arrangement could be worked out which would protect the assembly very well. I have a RC model hydroplane that uses a device called a "strudder" (by Octura Models) that combines a strut & rudder and it uses a shear pin to protect the drive train and works very well. I think I will follow this shear pin idea on out and see where it leads me.....don't want a lot of "stuff" hanging on the stem to detract from appearance.....appearance is very important to me....but protection for the boat is a major concern.

Again, many thanks for all the fine input.....you guys are the greatest ! I shall have another glass of merlot to your health !......and looking forward to seeing many of you at the Woodenboat Show......will order my tickets in the a.m. ! !

[Steve Lansdowne]

Pintle/Gudgeon arrangement on my Wee Rob. Two similar gudgeons are on the aft stem. I'm also considering adding two amas. Sure would make it more stable.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1350/1409300543_9c1f2a7c60.jpg?v=0

[mcdenny]

Hey John, hope you are running the router before the merlot, not after ;)

How is the Victor Slocum coming?

[Todd Bradshaw]

No kidding. I hit a spinning router blade with the tip of my index left finger while feeding a piece of molding into a router table a couple of years ago (not good for a guitar player). I got away with a small cut and some sensitivity for a year or so, but the initial impact was like getting hit with a baseball bat on the end of my finger. I was just lucky it didn't pull my finger in between the blade and the fence and shred it. Not something I plan to repeat at any time in the foreseeable future......