Belize

[TimH]

Saw a show on TV last night where a couple sold their home in Florida and moved to Belize. Bought a nice beach house on a small island. Apparently the official language there is English and the average high temps year round are from 69 to 81.


Thats enough to get a person wondering why they live dreaming about nice weather half of their life.

[TimH]

Anyone been there?

[Nanoose]

Good friends went for 2 weeks over spring break. Had a wonderful time.

[TimH]

was it expensive?

[Nanoose]

Tim - I'll get ahold of them and pick their brains a tad.

[TimH]

Tim - I'll get ahold of them and pick their brains a tad.

if you happen to talk to them. No rush I am mostly curious. But ya never know.

[Nanoose]

Interesting googling 'belize real estate'....lagoon lot for about $80k (USD).

ya think Florida is flat!

[Captain Blight]

I had a friend who lived in Belize for a few years, '98 to '03 if I recall correctly. He said it was amazing, that there is a big English (former British Honduras, remember) and American expatriate community, but if you wanted to live there, you really needed to be able to switch gears. you can't just run out to Home Depot or Office Max to get what you need. Sounds like if you loaded your boat down with saw blades and other carpentry basics and Post-its and ballpoint pens and like that, you could sell it off, to people who really need that sort of thing, and probably pay for your voyage.

[mmd]

It has been decades since I have been to Belize, but I have had experience living in similar latitudes in the not-so-distant past. In my experience, it requires quite a change in attitude if you are going to stay in a place like Belize for any more than a nice vacation. Lefty found out about this when he attempted to set up a carpentry school in Tobago. The phrase that I heard so often that it became a mantra during my time in St. Vincent was:

"Mon, you got to stop t'inkin' like a Nort' American. Dis be de Islands, mon!"

The rules are different there, and they won't change them for you.

[TimH]

The rules are different there, and they won't change them for you.

What rules would I possibly not be ok with?

[Nanoose]

Getting a bit back from my friends, Tim.

"Beautiful. Great people. HOT!"

[TimH]

according to the web high temps are 69 in winter 82 in summer.

Seem to have a problem with tropical storms though.

[Three Cedars]

Got a cousin that has lived on the offshore islands for the last 12 years . It is tough to deal with the humidity for about 3 - 4 months a year especially for Canadians who will suffer. Electrical appliances wear out , leather rots fast , pillows get moldy all due to the high humidity.

The interior of the country is better as a bit of elevation makes it slightly cooler.

More diseases there like typhoid and hep A. Then there is malaria and dengue fever.

Quite an interesting country , being a former British Colony it has a legal system that is ahem ... better than the rest of Central America

[TimH]

he must like it to stay for 12 years.

[seedy]

This site might be helpful... http://www.escapeartist.com/

[Nanoose]

That site was good, seedy.

Tim - from my friends who went the last half of March:
$1 US to $2 Belize. Food cost more than here. It's hot. It was about 30 or more when we were there (Tim - that's celsius...lessee...in the 90-95 range). Not near as humid as Caymans were. It was quite comfortable where we were by the ocean cause it was always breezy. We sweated lots. It's not cheap to buy there. We met several Canadians who were there looking for and buying property. It's not touristy where we were although I guess there are parts that are very touristy.

[TimH]

maybe I wouldnt like it. Wikipedia says its the least populated of all the south American countries though.

[Nanoose]

It looks pretty nice. Can you go for an extended time to see how it 'fits' before comitting to a move? Or even for an unextended time?...

[TimH]

I would visit first of course, but you would have to stay for a year or more to get a good feel for it.

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

I saw that same show, actually, it's got me hooked so I've programmed my DVR to record all the shows... there was one on recently about a woman who did the same thing down in the Dominican Republic. I don't know that I'd like to be that close to Haiti, but, the DR looked pretty nice, and the prices were even better.

[TimH]

it gets a person thinking doesnt it? :)

[Nanoose]

I lived in Hawaii for 18 months...nice, but...I missed the seasons.

I think in Belize (Floriday, whatever) I'd miss the mountains.

Probably more of a NorthWesterner than I like to admit! :)

[paladin]

San Pedro Sula, Honduras is 40 miles from the sea at the edge of the mountains....large ex-pat community there, fairly good services, banking, airport, and a quick way out for major medical service, fair local service.

[Three Cedars]

he must like it to stay for 12 years.

Some people think the grass is greener some other place .

Taxes are low there , you don't have to pay for heating, food is cheap or free at times, dental service is a lot cheaper. Automobile parts and repairs can be troublesome as is driving into Belize. On the negative side is getting typhoid ( twice ) and surviving hurricane Keith.

[TimH]

I lived in Hawaii for 18 months...nice, but...I missed the seasons.

I think in Belize (Floriday, whatever) I'd miss the mountains.

Probably more of a NorthWesterner than I like to admit! :)


would you miss the lack of summer though?

[Rigadog]

We were there a few years ago, and I was on Ambergris cay when there were just two low-key motels an a couple of bars. We went down to the Placencia area when we went a few years back. It was very nice. We did a couple snorkel trips, and a boat trip up Monkey River (and yes there are monkeys and crocs as well). We stayed in a little cabana on the beach, about $35/ night. Locals were friendly. Little Mayan kids walked around selling handicrafts. We got to know them by name and they invited us to visit their village near the mountains. We went. It was a great experience. One family gave us their newly built thatched rood home. We slept in hammocks and all the kids in the village gathered around a candle to hear us tell Grims fairy tales and sing nursery rhymes. We went with a bunch the next day to an amazing waterfall for a cool swim. I'd like to return and visit other villages, and also get out to a Caye for a night or so. Recently I was thinking it might be nice to go down there and maybe get a few acres of land. Maybe those who are interested, some of us wood boat people, should team up, pool resources, and get a good-sized bit? I'll start a thread to that effect maybe.

BTW. The Belizians build nice wood sloops. I think David Crosby, or Bob Dylan had one built down there. When I was there in my 20s I checked out a few. I met some fisherman who offered to take me all the way down the reef, but my girlfriend at the time became ill and we couldn't go. It would have been a real experience

[fstrumpf]

My wife and I stopped there a couple of years ago during a cruise.

We are interested in an eventual retirement investment.

We went on a tour of Mayan Ruins, very inteesting.

During the tour, our guide was really promoting incentives to locate on Belize. For an investment in a bank, certain tax incentives would be offered.

However, after a day touring, we were uncomfortable with the guards with automatic weapons and the concertina wire arround municipal building and schools.

We took it off our list for future concideration.

Fred

[Pernicious Atavist]

Sounds nice, doesn't it! Have considered it for awhile. Not as hot as it is here, and never as cold. Nice cost of living. But, doesn't Belize get 'cane-whacked several times a year?
And a chance to slow down a bit (more).

[Rigadog]

Instead of looking for a lot in such a place, we could get a number of people together, and get a much better deal. It might be nice to be involved with wood boat types in such a venture. Can we agree that we don't need a golf course? We could set the thing up as a sort of loose community, have a central clubhouse, pool resources, keep an eye on each other's stuff when not in the country, maybe share a sailboat, and a skiff.

Love to hear anyone's thoughts on the subject.

Here are a few listings:

By the sea:

http://www.emeraldfutures.com/beach_19.72acres/welcome.html

Mountains:

http://www.emeraldfutures.com/4parcels/hummingbird.html

River:

http://www.emeraldfutures.com/18acres_esperanza/river_frontage.html

[TC]

We were there in Oct 2006 and it was the HOTTEST place we ever hope to go, and unbearbly humid. Going to the Cayes was just as hot, but with a hot, humid breeze. The ocean offered no relief: a swim was like jumping in a warm bath.

Crime is pretty high: a friend's girlfriend is soon due back from a 2-year stay there and she's loved it, However, she got mugged in Belize City a couple of weeks ago and got pretty beaten up. She's travelled/lived in a few 3rd world countries without any trouble, and though she thought she was being really careful, two guys came out of nowhere. She knows it could have been a lot worse but it's kind of soured her on her time there.

That said, we had a great time, no trouble with crime, met a lot of lovely local people. Don't expect a lot of fancy restaurants. Even in the good places the food's pretty simple, boring even, unless you're getting fish which is everywhere and pretty cheap. Fruit is ridiculously cheap: we bought a dozen large grapefruit for $1 (US) and they were as sweet as oranges. A friend we stayed with made grapefruit wine after buying 50 lbs of them for a few bucks. It was a pretty good drink.

Beer: Belikan is the national brew and it's pretty lousy -- "like water spoiled" to quote a Euro-comment I read in recent news about the Budweiser deal; the worst beer I've had in a hot country.

Belize has a small population, 250,000 IIRC, and everyone seems to know everyone else. We even got to meet the prime minister, and we're nobodies.

Travel by bus is easy and cheap; we went to Tikal in Guatemala in less than a day (one way) for under $20 a person.

It is beautiful and attractive in lots of respects but I could not retire there.
Tim

[woodbutch]

I've been there, far different from Fla,

it is tropical and is humid, but of all the Central American countries its the only one I'd consider living in. Most who come and leave Belieze just dont handle the culture shock, the people and laws are far friendlier then any other C.A. country.

Yes there is crime, there also is crime here.

Go visit, and then compare to other places.

The english speaking is a big plus.

Jake

[schlaboatnic]

We just got back from 9 days in Belize. This was our second trip down and have spent the majority of the time out in the cayes. Flew into Belize City and then out to Abergris Caye. Chartered a boat and sailed down the reef and finally ended up in Placencia. The outer islands are wonderful, but mostly parks, small fishing villages or are private and entirely owned by wealthy US or Belizeans from what I could tell. One night we anchored on the lee side of South Rendevous Caye. We swam ashore and met the caretaker of the island. He was a friendly Guatamalan and told us the owner's goal was to eventually build a resort. Most of the resorts on the small islands consisted of a few huts and a bar. The larger islands (Caye Caulker, Ambergris Caye) had bigger fancy resorts, some services, but not a whole lot, which was fine with us. We only had a day and a half in Placencia, but would like to go back and spend more time. We would like to eventually be spending 2-3 months a year there after kids are moved out, etc. probably in a town like Placencia or San Pedro. No desire to spend much time in Belize City. Weather was warm (80-95), humid, people were nice, English is the language, but the natives mostly speak a form of Creole to each other. I happen to like the Belikin beer, ice cold was quite refreshing in the heat. What we like is that it is mostly undeveloped, yet that seems to be changing, prices are pretty good, especially in the larger towns, snorkeling is amazing, graham cracker sand beaches (at least that's what my wife call them) good food, great people. We will be going back soon, probably 2 yrs, this time with kids.

[PatCassidy]

I was there in 1992 on Caye Caulker. A lot of burglaries of rooms while we were scuba diving. Big crack cocaine problem back then. I don't know about now. No police on Caye Caulker back then - none. Smoking joints the size of cigars was the national past time. The rasta guys were fine. The crack addicts were theives and worse.

Columbus Day 1992 - 500th anniverary - I'm sitting in one of the two bars and there is an argument around midnight. A knife is pulled. Time for me to go home. A friend and I take our drinks and walk about 100 yards along the shore and head out on the little rickety pier in front of my "cabin". Somebody runs by us and wakes a guy up who was sleeping at the end of the pier. He rushes by us and sprints towards the bar. 15 minutes later he re-appears with his friend and a machete. They walk by us. We say "hey" they say "hey". Now it is time to call it a night.

An hour later a British Army helicopter lands nearby. Seem that it was this fellow's brother that had the knife pulled on him. My sleeping "dockmate" runs back to the bar with machete and kills the offender. Splits his skull open. An eyeball rolls out of his head. A day later there is still the patch of dried blood in the sand where he died in front of the bar.

Ends up he was from El Salvador and been deported from the US three months earlier.

Have fun in the Wild West!

[TimH]

so carrying a gun would be recommended I guess, assuming thats legal.

[Three Cedars]

Maybe avoiding bars late at night is a better option.

[TimH]

yea...I dont go to bars anyway.

[switters]

was there fishing in 2004, same report as TC. The fishing is great, stay out of Belize city due to crime, I didn't think the Belikin was that bad but ice can be hard to come by in some places down there.

[Bill Griffin]

Happy to see this thread, I've been thinking about going to Belize for the fishing next winter/spring. I hadn't heard that crime was such a big problem though. I'm wondering what the oil prices will do to air fares, the last time I looked the cost of a ticket wasn't that bad.

[mmd]

Originally Posted by mmd
The rules are different there, and they won't change them for you.

"What rules would I possibly not be ok with?" - TimH

Maybe we're suffering a misunderstanding of our common language and the inaccuaracy of the typed word here, Tim.

It's not so much that there are rules that you won't like, so much as there are customs and cultural differences that may not seem right to you. These are subtle things, and sometimes difficult to explain, especially in as limited a communication medium as an internet forum. What I was trying to get across was that some of these cultural differences are an irritant to the expats; I watched some expats roll with the punches, and I've watched others drive themselves to distraction by trying to "teach" the locals of the error of their ways and to do them "properly". How well you will fit in with the local culture will determine whether living in Belize is a dream or a nightmare for you. The one thing that I have seen in many places in the Caribbean that doesn't seem to work well in the long run is to set yourself up in an enclave of expats who create their own little world (ghetto?) that runs by the rules of "back home".

Ok, I've thought of an example that may explain it. When I lived in St. Vincent, I hired two guys to come to my house every second week and do the yard work - cut the grass, trim the hedge, sweep the gutters, and such. I negotiated a price (with advice from my neighbours as to what to expect to pay and recieve) for the service and told them that I didn't care which day they came, but that they had to do the work every second week. They came to work very early in the day and sometimes finished before ten in the morning, sometimes they took all day - it didn't matter, as long as it got done. I later had a conversation with an American expat down the road about these two workers, and he was bitter to the point of spittin' angry about them, and warned me that I was to have nothing but trouble with them. Obviously, this concerned me, so I asked a good (neutral) friend about the situation. This friend - a native Vincentian - told me the tale: It seems that the neighbour had hired the two guys to do the same work I had hired them to do, but he told them to show up at 8:00 am on each Tuesday, and to use the tools that he had bought for the purpose. He became very angry when they showed up early, or late; he was irritated when they preferred to use machetes to trim the hedges instead of his hedge shears, and incensed when they used his shears improperly and broke them; and he fired them and threw them off his property when he found them taking a break in the shade when he felt that they should be working. I had no problems with these workers over a period of almost two years; the other fellow fired them within a month because he could not adapt to the local work ethic & culture. After a while, all the local workers learned how difficult this man was to work for and eventually he couldn't find anybody to hire to do work on his property, or had to pay exhorbitant prices to those few companies that did things "the North American way" (usually owned by expats). He eventually put his house up for sale and left the island, telling all and sundry how backward, uncivilized, and criminal the locals were. He failed to see that he was the problem, not the locals.

Another example, a bit shorter and to the point: I discovered early on with my employees at the boatyard I managed that if I gave instructions in my usual, Canadian, manner, I did't get very much done in the run of the day. But if I changed the delivery style of the very same instructions, things went along just fine. And the difference is subtle:

Wrong way: "Tito, would you please put those empty resin barrels out in the metal scrap pile before ten o'clock? Thanks."

Right way: "Tito, put those empty resin barrels out on the metal scrap pile at nine o'clock.

The wrong way did not give an exact time to do the required task, so Tito would procrastinate until he did not have time to do the job. Often, if my workers felt that they couldn't do the job as specified or in the time allotted , they wouldn't even attempt it. Secondly, at least in the Vincentian society at the time, the addition of "please" in a directive indicated that the person had the option to do or not, and often they would choose not. It took a while (and a lot of frustration) before I was instructed on the error of my ways; it took even longer to force myself to lose what I considered common courtesy in addressing my employees and become more direct and "commanding". I never did become comfortable with it, but it worked and apparently was not resented by my employees, as they all seemed to like me and I continue to keep in friendly contact with several of them.

Does this explain what I was trying to get at earlier any better?

[TimH]

hell, thats not specific to the Caribbean.....

thats the way it is here!

[mmd]

Have at 'er, then. You'll understand better what I am referring to when you are "in-country".