Anyone bought pix from boatpix.com?

[ron ll]

Yesterday while crossing Puget Sound a small helicoptor hovered around us and snapped pix of the boat. Their website was painted in large letters on the pontoons. Going to their website then explains that they will send you the prints and you buy what you want or send them back. (Sounds like a fun business model for them. :) ) Has anyone here bought pix from them?

[Yeadon]

I've never heard of this ... how much are the photos? With the price of fuel these days, that's got to be a tough business model.

I'd probably get pretty irritated if a small helicopter hovered over me while I was out sailing, but then, I'm pretty crotchedly for only being 35.

[ron ll]

Don't know the prices. I was in a powerboat but I did notice they caused some rippling on the water for a very short time. I assume they would be sensitive to sailboats. But then maybe the whole thing is just a cover for Homeland Security. :D

[Pernicious Atavist]

They'll sell you pics of your boat they acquired without permission. Now, will they sell those pics to others without a commission to you? See, that's wrong. Since they're not covering a news event, they don't have permission to sell your image without permission. Paparazzi get away with it because celebrities are 'news,' but chances are you don't fall into that category. Now, they may yell First Amendment, but that guarantees things other than selling images for a profit. Sounds like they owe you something....

[Kaa]

They'll sell you pics of your boat they acquired without permission. Now, will they sell those pics to others without a commission to you? See, that's wrong. Since they're not covering a news event, they don't have permission to sell your image without permission.

That's not true. Barring obvious privacy violations (as in, taking pictures through windows of what's happening inside the house), anyone can take pictures of other people as well as their boats and sell these pictures.

The general rule is that the so-called "editorial usage" of images does NOT require permission from the subject, while the "commercial usage" does. Before you get too excited, note that "commercial usage" is defined as advertising and using the image in other ways to sell some product. Selling photos to magazines and websites, selling photos to be framed and put on the wall, selling them as art, whatever it means, -- all of that is "editorial usage".

The short version is that selling pictures of you and your boat even without your permission is perfectly legal.

Kaa

[Yeadon]

You're out sailing in the middle of Puget Sound. That's a pretty public place. Anybody can take a photo of you and sell it.

Say you're inside your shop, with a sailboat that has a very innovative design, and you're trying to keep it private, then that's a different story. (Though if you leave your bay doors wide open ... and they stand in the middle of the street and take a photo, then things get a little sketchy.)

I suggest a cloaking device.

[Noah]

The word on Sailing Anarchy is that they are a bunch of bastards -

They take the shots of you, and you ask them to mail them to you so you can see them.

You then decide hmmm, I don't want to pay for them, and like a good person you send them back.

Turns out 9 times out of 10 they will say they never got the pictures back and charge you for all of them. You dispute then they send it to a collections agency just for fun.

Your credit gets ruined, you don't get your pictures, and you spend months trying to work it all out - all because you thought it would be nice to get a picture of your boat.

There was a reason folks cheered when one of their helicopters crashed recently (nobody injured).

Also, if you are racing they can really screw up your wind by flying way too low - it sucks.

[Yeadon]

There's some lousy word-of-mouth marketing for you ...

[gert]

If it were a decent picture I'd buy it in a minute.
I would love a picture of Carina under sail in a good breeze healed over.

[Bob Cleek]

Well, if they are flying below the required ceiling and causing problems by doing so, they are looking at some serious fines. A complaint to the FAA together with their registration number should get some quick action! (I'd expect Paladin would know the ins and outs of this, since he's a long time pilot.)

This "business model" is old as dirt. Some photographers used to shadow the racing fleets, get a copy of the entry list or show up at the after race party and sell pictures. Some of these photographers were extremely good. Dianne Beeston, now moved north, was once the premier boat portraitist on SF Bay. Her photos are cherished by htose who have them. She was the Ben Mendelowitz of her day. Heck, Becken of Cowes started out the same way. The chopper is a new wrinkle, although there are guys around taking aerial photos of houses and trying to sell them to people all the time. I hardly think you could get a good photo of a boat from up in the air. The lower the angle, the better. Becken actually had a special camera built that he could hang over the side of his boat to get below the rail shots!

BTW, the accepted practice is to provide PROOFS of photos offered for purchase. The proofs have "proof" written across them, or sometimes deeply embossed in them, so they are good for nothing else. I've never seen anybody want their proofs back. If the stories are true, these guys are either crooks or don't know what they are doing.

[Hwyl]

Seconding what Noah said.

[Pernicious Atavist]

I happily stand corrected!

[Concordia...41]

Yeah - they had some pictures of us in the Miami - Key Largo race last year. The prices were pretty high - something like $25 for a 4x6.

When they went over I was in the companion way handing up beer :D

Didn't figure they got any real good action shots - unless of course - passing around chips and salsa counts... :rolleyes:

After hearing the above, I'm even gladder I didn't bite.

- M

[John B]

I third what Noah says .Very bad rep on SA.
It sounds more like the way they do business rather than the taking of the photos, although I suppose the more aggressive they are in business terms may reflect in how aggressively they fly as well. Lots of talk of windflow ruined in racing etc.

Still, the best hang it on the wall, talk about it, look at it repeatedly photos I have ,have been taken from choppers.
One fantastic one of Waione out of a series in 35 knots in about 2000 and a set of great shots of Riada taken in the coastal classic race last year.
Took one of those to my sailmaker and said seee,,, see what I mean about that main.:D

Came across the Waione one hanging in a shop earlier this year as it happens, that was a buzz.
" do you sell many of those"
"Yeah, mostly to tourists"
ahahahaa.

[Saltiguy]

A few years ago they photographed my boat, and I contacted their website. As I recall, they wanted $300.00 for the photo - with NO proof. They really expected me to buy it sight unseen! I e-mailed back, told them I thought they were crazy and suggested that I would consider paying a maximum of $100., after seeing and approving a proof. They agreed, but then added the deal-breaker. My boat is a commercial charter boat, and if I was to buy a photo, I was going to use it in my advertising brochure. They knew that, from the photo, and said there would be additional and on-going charges for advertising usage. Good-bye! I thought they were a very strange and difficult company to deal with.

[crawdaddyjim50]

That's not true. Barring obvious privacy violations (as in, taking pictures through windows of what's happening inside the house), anyone can take pictures of other people as well as their boats and sell these pictures.

The general rule is that the so-called "editorial usage" of images does NOT require permission from the subject, while the "commercial usage" does. Before you get too excited, note that "commercial usage" is defined as advertising and using the image in other ways to sell some product. Selling photos to magazines and websites, selling photos to be framed and put on the wall, selling them as art, whatever it means, -- all of that is "editorial usage".

The short version is that selling pictures of you and your boat even without your permission is perfectly legal.

Kaa

Only if there are no identifiable people in the picture. If you can tell who it is then there must be a release signed or there can be a suit.