Sailing the Northwest passage...

[Spin_Drift]

Checking into buying a sailboat on the East Coast. If purchased, we need to get it to Alaska.

Two ways possible, north through NW passage or south through Panama canal...

Length of boat we are interested in is about 52' from the tip of the bowsprit to the aft end of the dinghy davits. Waterline 38'.

Anyone have experience on these routes?

Info and advice?

Seems that we will be selling our boat here as we just got a quote for shipping... From Kotka to Anchorage over €15,500.00... plus the price of a custom built trailer and hauling her to Kotka and hauling her from Anchorage to where we live. (translate that to dollars:eek:)

[P.L.Lenihan]

Northwest passage? I didn't think that was a viable route for small boats unless global warming is really working faster up there than here.
Sorry,no other advice/suggestions other then to say,go up the West coast.

Peter

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Berrimilla is about to give it a try west to east.
Bolg is here.

http://awberrimilla.blogspot.com/

[martin schulz]

I didn't think that was a viable route for small boats ...

What is a small boat?
The DAGMAR AAEN is an ex-fishing boat with LoA of 24m (including bowsprit).

http://www.arved-fuchs.de/nwp/expedition_e.htm
http://www.arved-fuchs.de/nwp/images/test1.gif

[Spin_Drift]

Just trying to see if buying this sailboat is feasible.

She is the second boat that has interested us. The first one was a Sea Witch called The Voyager but unfortunately we were not able to secure long term mooring for her (while doing the necessary repairs to be able to sail her to Alaska) and she had to be moved immediately after purchasing.

Now this boat in question is located on the East Coast USA and has to be sailed to Alaska.

Maybe through the Panama Canal and then up the west coast is the only way... Just looking for all the options... Frankly I was shocked when Kalevala suggested the NW Passage...:eek:

Link below tells the passage is opened...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070917-northwest-passage.html

[Ian McColgin]

If you can get the permissions, the trans-Siberia sea route is probably fastest, especially if you can provision and fuel for a non-stop and if you have enough crew to really take advantage of the daylight. But a nice cruise south and around would be most pleasant and would be quite cost-effective if you make it passage style with only a stop, at most, on each side in addition to the stop for the Canal itself.

Sounds like fun.

G'luck

[Gary E]

your NUTZ buy something LOCAL

even if "local" is far away SEATTLE

[bamamick]

Spin, there is every kind of boat under the sun in either Vancouver/Victoria or the Puget Sound region, and a delivery would probably be far less expensive that what you are proposing in your first post.

That being said, I do have a friend who had a Westsail 32 delivered from Alaska to Mobile, so it's not like it hasn't been done. I suppose the wild card is what you'd pay for the east coast boat?

Think about the PNW thing.

Mickey Lake

[MiddleAgesMan]

For a unique perspective of the NW passage read about Lynne Cox's swimming adventure here

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/25/midmorning3/

or in a recent issue of The New Yorker.

[Gary Bergman]

hmm, just buy my other boat in Sausalito, and it becomes easy.....I'm about to get between a rock and a hard place, so I'll entertain most any reasonable offer....

[goodbasil]

I expect that you already know when sailing up the west coast of North Amercia your against the wind. Most people find it easier to sail to Hawaii then back. It's not called "beating" for nothing.

[Jay Greer]

The first Cal246 "Fram", was designed by Hale Field to be transported across the North American Continent on the Trans Canadian Railroad. For this to be possible it needed to fit through the various tunnels when loaded on a flat car. If your boat will fit, this is both a fast and direct way to get your vessel from the Atlantic Sea Board to the Pacific Coast.
Jay

[Michael s/v Sannyasin]

Recently, some school kids sailed the NWP, and they could do so because of the unseasonably mild winters over the past few years. So, it would be theoretically possible, but not probable. Even with the right conditions, it is a major undertaking.

Have you looked at all the other options, such as those drive-on/drive-off boat transports? You float the boat on, then they close up the gate, pump the water out and your boat is on a stand.

[SchoonerRat]

The first Cal246 "Fram", was designed by Hale Field to be transported across the North American Continent on the Trans Canadian Railroad. For this to be possible it needed to fit through the various tunnels when loaded on a flat car. If your boat will fit, this is both a fast and direct way to get your vessel from the Atlantic Sea Board to the Pacific Coast.
Jay
Jay,

Interesting note on the Cal 246. I spent a lot of years commissioning Cal boats, and spent a couple of years as customer service manager at Jensen Marine in the early '70s. I never heard the name Hale field associated with the 46 or any other Jensen product. Was this a redesign, or was I mistaken about Bill Lapworth designing the 246?

As to the original question, I always believed that the NW Passage was a mythical route that has been unsuccessfully searched for. I have also heard that recreational boats currently attempting to transit the Ditch are experiencing delays of weeks or more.

If you are looking for a trip, by all means, go for it. But if the trip is just a means for getting your boat home, the Pacific Northwest is a proverbial candy store for somebody looking to purchase an old wood boat. Shopping closer to home might be your best option.

[Bruce Hooke]

A few thoughts about the arctic route. Please note that is based on casual reading and some familiarity with the arctic in general, but not on any direct experience with sailing in those waters. I have been to Baffin Island and I have kayaked in Greenland, but that's it...

1. Even with global warming you can still expect to encounter a good bit of ice and I don't think you can count on getting through in one year. So, you would need to prepare both yourself and the boat for the potential of having to winter over. Of course you could fly out ($$$) but the boat would need to be ready to be frozen in for the winter. At the least, the boat would need to be one that can handle a bit of butting into ice because even under the best conditions you are going to be plowing through some ice pack from everything I've heard.

2. From what I've read, and from the few spots in the arctic I've been too, it seems like the wind can be very light a lot of the time in the summer. So, I suspect you would need to be ready to motor a lot of the way through the NW passage, which means carrying a lot of fuel. Yes, there are places up there where you can get fuel, but they are likely to be far apart and very pricey.

3. Once the fall storms kick in then you have the reverse problem...too much wind! The coast of Labrador is also rather notorious for stormy weather even in the summer. In western Greenland the fall storms started in about mid-August.

4. To get an idea of ice conditions up there, watch the ice maps that the Canadian Government puts out: http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/app/WsvPrdCanQry.cfm?subID=2003&Lang=eng Note that right now, in late June, most of your route is still filled with either fast ice (solid ice sheet) or loose ice that covers 80% or more of the water's surface. In other words, if you were up there now you would probably be hanging out in northern Labrador waiting for the ice to break up. That might not happen for another month, at which point you would have a month or so before the fall storms start to make it pretty rough going. And remember, that is not a month of open water sailing...that is a month of picking your way through the ice, and picking your way through some waters for which the available nautical charts are pretty sketchy in terms of detail and navigational marks are pretty much non-existent except for occasional big cairns.

In short, sailing the Northwest passage could be an amazing journey, but the reason to do it would be because you want to sail in one of the world's last great wildernesses and go to someplace that only a handful of people get to go to, not because it is the most efficient way to get a boat from the east coast to Alaska. When buying a boat you would need to make suitability for arctic waters a top priority and you would need to outfit the boat for arctic expedition conditions.

[Kaa]

I guess the gist of it is that if you want to have a major adventure -- it's a great idea. If you just want to move the boat from point A to point B -- it's pretty silly.

Kaa

[Bruce Hooke]

As to the original question, I always believed that the NW Passage was a mythical route that has been unsuccessfully searched for.

Oh, its there all right...Roald Amundsen made the first transit of it back in 1903-1906. By then the idea that there would be a nice, neat ice free route around the north side of North America had already been laid to rest. There were hopes that there would be a route out the western side of Hudson Bay leading to somewhere south of Alaska, but of course there is not.

[SchoonerRat]

Oh, its there all right...Roald Amundsen made the first transit of it back in 1903-1906. By then the idea that there would be a nice, neat ice free route around the north side of North America had already been laid to rest. There were hopes that there would be a route out the western side of Hudson Bay leading to somewhere south of Alaska, but of course there is not.The windward passage is there. The Panama Canal is there. The Inland Waterway is there. These routes are clearly marked on charts, they are constant in their position.

Any passage through the "NW Passage" is capricious at best. The route is just as likely to close up behind you as it is in front of you. You cannot find your way through by chart. It can take years to get through. To say that the NW Passage exists is a bit of a stretch in my mind, and any attempt to navigate it for any reason other than "adventure" is folly.

[willmarsh3]

It looks like more people are doing the NW passage successfully. Here's one:
http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/articles/Feb08/CloudNine.htm

It would definitely be a trip for a lifetime.

[PatCassidy]

If I lived in Alaska I would neither buy a boat or date a woman who lived on the east coast.

[Spin_Drift]

Well, thanks for the input. Excellent and interesting info here. As I mentioned earlier, when Kalevala mentioned the NWP, I told him it would be too dangerous and you have confirmed what I thought.

Maybe it would be better to try and find THE right boat on the West coast and leave this one be...

Thanks again...:)

[johnw]

How big a boat? I don't know what's happened to trucking costs with the fuel being more expensive, but you can move a surprisingly big vessel on a flatbed trailer.

[Bruce Hooke]

The windward passage is there. The Panama Canal is there. The Inland Waterway is there. These routes are clearly marked on charts, they are constant in their position.

Any passage through the "NW Passage" is capricious at best. The route is just as likely to close up behind you as it is in front of you. You cannot find your way through by chart. It can take years to get through. To say that the NW Passage exists is a bit of a stretch in my mind, and any attempt to navigate it for any reason other than "adventure" is folly.

You are seeing this solely from a sailor's perspective whereas this is ultimately a question of geography. There are plenty of straits, passages, etc. that show up on maps but that cannot normally be navigated in a boat, but that does not mean that if you went there by some other mode of transportation you would not find the geographic feature in question. Nares Strait between Ellesmere Island and Greenland is a good example...much of the time it is so jambed with pack ice that no boat could get through, but the geographic feature is still there.

With the Northwest Passage, the only aspect of it that is "mythical" as far as I can tell, is the old dream of an ice free passage south of the actual Northwest Passage.

[Spin_Drift]

How big a boat? I don't know what's happened to trucking costs with the fuel being more expensive, but you can move a surprisingly big vessel on a flatbed trailer.

It is about 52' from the tip of the bowsprit to the aft end of the dinghy davits. Waterline 38'.

:)

[S/V Laura Ellen]

I heard an interview of a couple that completed the passage (Canadian route). The comment that they made was that if you attempt the passage you have to be prepared to lose the boat. The couple from the interview had abandoned their boat at one point, but found it a day later.

[SchoonerRat]

You are seeing this solely from a sailor's perspective whereas this is ultimately a question of geography. There are plenty of straits, passages, etc. that show up on maps but that cannot normally be navigated in a boat, but that does not mean that if you went there by some other mode of transportation you would not find the geographic feature in question. Nares Strait between Ellesmere Island and Greenland is a good example...much of the time it is so jambed with pack ice that no boat could get through, but the geographic feature is still there.

With the Northwest Passage, the only aspect of it that is "mythical" as far as I can tell, is the old dream of an ice free passage south of the actual Northwest Passage.

Sorry, I didn't mean to answer from the perspective of a sailor. Or the perspective of a geographer. I was answering this from the perspective of somebody who was thinking of making a passage. Some people have done the NWP successfully, while many others have failed. I felt that the answer that Spin_Drift needed to hear was that there is no actual NW Passage that is clearly marked and is open and clear for a designated period of the year. It's not like bouncing from one marked bouy to another up the Inland Waterway.

I have done a lot of deliveries. The NW Passage doesn't even rate a thought as a delivery route for a yacht. I'd rather do the Horn--and you couldn't get me to the Horn on a bet. But at least with the Horn, you can read about the approach, you can see charts of the getaway---

You could even look at color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. But you won't see any of that for the NWP, at least not till global warming gets a bit worse.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pick nits, but that's what I meant by "mythical"

[johnw]

It is about 52' from the tip of the bowsprit to the aft end of the dinghy davits. Waterline 38'.

:)

Hmm. I'd try the Panama Canal if you can't find what you want on the left coast. It's warmer, and you're less likely to lose the boat.

[Spin_Drift]

hmm, just buy my other boat in Sausalito, and it becomes easy.....I'm about to get between a rock and a hard place, so I'll entertain most any reasonable offer....


Gary, Please clean up your PM box. It's full...

Thanks, Spinner

[Spin_Drift]

hmm, just buy my other boat in Sausalito, and it becomes easy.....I'm about to get between a rock and a hard place, so I'll entertain most any reasonable offer....

Please clean up your PM mail box. It won't take more messages...

[redbopeep]

It can be done quickly--if you're up to the adventure and have an open mind...a young group of Polish folks did it in about a month:
http://www.amundsen.pl/english/

What was great about their passage is that they used their tender towing a line to a paraglider to "scout" the ice ahead and find their way through it. This made for exceedingly fast and safe passage. Thinking outside the box.

[Bruce Hooke]

Sorry, I didn't mean to answer from the perspective of a sailor. Or the perspective of a geographer. I was answering this from the perspective of somebody who was thinking of making a passage. Some people have done the NWP successfully, while many others have failed. I felt that the answer that Spin_Drift needed to hear was that there is no actual NW Passage that is clearly marked and is open and clear for a designated period of the year. It's not like bouncing from one marked bouy to another up the Inland Waterway.

Fair enough... and a very good point. Sorry if I got nit picky in response.