Pine Radiata aka Monterey Pine

[Steve Lansdowne]

I saw some of this in a big box lumber store today. It was select and not too heavy. I'm wondering if it might have application for spars and/or oars on a Melonseed. I'd never seen it before.

Here are the specs.

Bending Strength 11020 5700 psi
Max. Crushing Strength 2660 6038 psi
Impact Strength 18 22 inches
Stiffness 1140 1330 1000 psi
Work to Maximum Load 9 15 in-lbs/in3
Hardness 820 lbs
Shearing Strength 1700 psi
Specific Gravity 0.48
Weight 40 32 lbs/cu.ft.
Density (Air-dry) 32 lbs/cu.ft.
Radial Shrinkage (G->OD) 3 %
Tangential Shrink. (G->OD) 7 %
Volumetric Shrink. (G->OD) 11 %

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123&highlight=radiata

[John B]

This country is covered in it. Its the default construction building timer, not rot resistant and often hard to get in good clears. Local oarmaker , who makes all of NZ's stock chandlery type dinghy oars , makes them out of it.
One of our very eminent yacht designer builders built a lot of racing class dinghies out of it by the cold moulded method. Can't imagine building a spar from it though.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
It's the same here. The most common building material for house framing, now superseding our own native hardwoods. All plantation grown and mostly pre-treated with copper-arsenic compound (or whatever they use these days,) which is supposed to make it rot-proof but which can't always be relied on because of sometimes-shonky application methods.

As John says, it's very hard to get clear lengths of it, and while you might get enough for oars you'd be lucky to be able to get sufficiently long clear lengths to make spars from it. But if you could find the right pieces they'd probably serve as well for a dinghy as oregon would, and be cheaper into the bargain.

Mike

[Steve Lansdowne]

I'll likely be gluing up the spars from shorter / narrower lengths anyway. I'll check into the local douglas fir availability and keep the pine as a backup plan.

[Bob Smalser]

I'll likely be gluing up the spars from shorter / narrower lengths anyway. I'll check into the local douglas fir availability and keep the pine as a backup plan.

Compare the numbers side by side with Doug Fir. Radiata is just as heavy but is considerably weaker in a number of critical factors, and even DF is a second choice to spruce in the strength-to-weight ratios so desireable in a mast. Add to all that the radiata might be extremely rot prone if it's 3 rings per inch fast-grown stock, and I suspect it's a poor choice for your puspose.

[John B]

Yeah Steve, for a country covered in it as I said , we traditionally and still now depend on PNW doug fir( which is called Oregon here) for spars. Oregon being second choice to spruce but more rot resistant and able to take the knocks.
I can't imagine anyone using it ( radiata)for a mast or other spar here.

[Gary Dierking]

There are very few places in a boat where Radiata pine would be suitable (possibly a shelf in the galley). It worst characteristic is its instability. It swells and contracts a great deal with changes in moisture.

Gary

[Steve Lansdowne]

Thanks for the info. I'll cross it off my list!

[PeterSibley]

I'm going to stick my neck our and say that if you have ,good straight logs or poles , reasonable ring counts ,say 4 to 5 per inch or less it would be fine for pole masts or spars .There are better but if it is what you have ...so be it .

[Steve Lansdowne]

Peter -- I assume you mean 4-5 rings per inch or MORE.

[epoxyboy]

I thought Monterey Pine is what we call Macrocarpa (in NZ), and is a good boat building timber if you can get straight clear lengths. Radiata pine on the other hand is softer, weaker, less rot resistant and not fit for anything other than house framing - and then only if its been dunked in nasty chemicals.

Pete

[Duncan Gibbs]

Common name: Monterey Pine
Botanical Name: Pinus radiata

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

.
EpoxyBoy, your Macrocarpa is Monterey cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa,) not Monterey pine.

Filching from an Aussie timber site, AS/NZS 2873:2000 Timber - Classification into strength groups does not include a strength group for Macrocarpa as it's "a brittle wood and it is difficult to dry and grade accurately."

Information from New Zealand gives Macrocarpa a density of about 485 kg/cu. m. Using this, AS/NZS 2873:2000 would assign a provisional strength group of SD8 for seasoned Macrocarpa, the lowest available. This means boards would have an (Australian) stress grade of F8 to F4, depending on the characteristics of the piece.

With short spiral grain and brittle nature, generally a stress grade of F4 is used for anything other than the best clear pieces.

Macrocarpa is a relatively durable softwood and NZ sources claim that is suitable for H3 applications -- ie exposed above ground.

I agree with Peter's comments, by the way.

Mike

[seanz]

I thought Monterey Pine is what we call Macrocarpa (in NZ), and is a good boat building timber if you can get straight clear lengths. Radiata pine on the other hand is softer, weaker, less rot resistant and not fit for anything other than house framing - and then only if its been dunked in nasty chemicals.

Pete

That's what I thought too.....then I had a bit of a look around and Macrocarpa is in fact Monterey Cypress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_cypress
Commonly known as cypress in Oz and macrocarpa in NZ.

Good as a boat building timber except it can't (according to a book on common NZ timber) be steam bent.

Now, back to Pinus Radiata, which if used in the construction of any boat will explode and seriously wound all present with it's toothpick like shrapnel.
:D

I see Mike has beaten me to it....I'd just like to add that the cypress has a reputation for problems stemming from the use of the tree in single species shelterbelts. There is a lot of wind stress on the trees but apparently the plantation grown timber is a much nicer product.
Haven't seen the plantation stuff locally so I'll just keep picking over the stacks of sleepers for 'good bits'.
Edit: The 'good bits' are for garden furniture and assorted projects, not for boat building.

[john welsford]

Macrocarpa is known in its home range as Monterey cypress, ( Cupressus macrocarpus) and comes from the same area of California as the Pinus Radiata otherwise known as Monterey pine.

I've successfully used Pinus R for masts, but its a tad heavy and not particularly strong. Rot resistance is moderately low but thats not much of an issue if the boats dry sailed and kept painted.

If anyone is planning to use Pinus in a boat, try to pick wood from the outer area of the log, that is the largest radius growth rings as the wood from the outer layers of an older tree is much more dense, harder, stronger, more rot resistant and more stable than that which comes from nearer the core.

JohnW

I thought Monterey Pine is what we call Macrocarpa (in NZ), and is a good boat building timber if you can get straight clear lengths. Radiata pine on the other hand is softer, weaker, less rot resistant and not fit for anything other than house framing - and then only if its been dunked in nasty chemicals.

Pete