which oil finish?

[DavidF]

Has anybody tried a rubbed-oil alternative to varnish or linseed? I'm not bothered by reapplying every year. But I don't want the shine of varnish or the black of linseed. I'm thinking of wood that gets regular wind and water but very little wear. Would genuine teak oil do the trick?

Thank you for your opinions and experience.
david

[Thorne]

"Wood" being what, exactly? What sort of boat, stored in/outdoors, etc? Applied to the outside, inside only, both? Why not paint?

I'm not catching your drift, obviously. Marine ply often requires different finishes than solid wood.

If the boat is stored indoors, I suspect that you could use a BLO / pinetar / Turps mix and not have it turn black for many years. You could also use a satin varnish and sand the final coat for a very dull finish if the "shine" is the issue...

Try searching the Forum for "boat soup" - lots of discussions.

[JC 72]

David, As Thorne said we need a little more info on your boat, wood type etc. How you plan to store it. Will it be covered? The current issue of WB has a good article on traditional oil finishes. The Author stated that genuine Tung oil will not blacken wood like Boiled Linseed. I sense that you would like a matte, or natural looking oil finish without the build up of varnish. The teak oil I used was very thin, with a slight orange hue. Can't tell how this would hold up, because I don't know enough about the conditions it will be exposed to.Deks Olje # 1 isn't shiny if you put less than the recomended no. of applications, but you sacrifice protection. A note on Deks Olje, it is no longer being made.

[SaltyD from BC]

Do you shave in vertical strokes or horizontal? Up to down, left to right or visa versas? Is your boat stored north/south or east/west? What's your zip code?

OK enough smart ass but jeez guys...

Watco Danish oil is a good place to start.

[Larks]

I've used quite a few different oils in house building both inside and out, but not in marine applications (as yet) but for what it's worth and if it is available to you I have found the various "Integrain" products to be standing up the best out of what I've used.

This is one that I've been using outside and so far it has been very good and if available to you it might be suitable:
http://www.duspec.com.au/duspec/file/AUDW0769.pdf
cheers
Greg

[hansp77]

I do a mix of 1:1 BLO and Pure Tung oil
then a dash of marine spar varnish, a dash of dryers and a good splash of Turpentine.
Wipe on, soak in, wipe off.
It has held up on my pushpit seat out in the weather pretty well.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t304/hansp77/Pushpit_on_the_boat-1.jpg

These are some gear shifter knobs I made last month with the same.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t304/hansp77/IMGP2848.jpg

[David G]

Do you shave in vertical strokes or horizontal? Up to down, left to right or visa versas? Is your boat stored north/south or east/west? What's your zip code?

OK enough smart ass but jeez guys...

Watco Danish oil is a good place to start.

Salty -

Watco Danish Oil will not hold up well to sustained exterior exposure. It might be just what the fellow is looking for given the right circumstances and priorities: stored indoors; sailed infrequently; temperate climate; fastidiously maintained; shaved vertically, from the top down; etc. Generally, though, not an optimum blanket recommendation.

Hence the list of questions, and requests for more detail.

For any of us to offer advice based up on such scant information is likely worthless, and possibly destructive. Think of a doctor trying to diagnose & prescribe over the phone when the patient is not forthcoming about his history, circumstances, general health, and prior/current symptoms. Sounds like a recipe for malpractice.


"Competence Matters" - (yes, I stole it)

[Thorne]

C'mon, E-vil Twin, let's double-team 'em!

BTW -- where did you find enough Competence up there to steal any?

;0 )

SaltyD -- How in earth can you recommend a finish for an unknown wood-like substance, stored in an unknown location, exposed to unknown amounts of UV / rain / water, etc? Watco might work on the interior of a marine ply kayak stored indoors, but not so good on the exterior of a fir over oak 50' trawler in Alaska, right?

We're only out of line when we start asking stuff like, "What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

[DavidF]

The details are scant because I was cheating: My question is not boat related (except that I always think about boats and I think a boatman's experience is relevant.)
I've built a nice large Japanese-style door out of western red cedar for a client. The door has accents of walnut, red oak, and yellow pine. The door faces North and is shielded by a very large (5-foot) overhand. It is also at least eight inches above grade. It will be installed in southern New Hampshire. Neither I nor the clients want a shiny (varnish or urethane) finish. Owners are happy to do a once-a-year rub down with teak oil, if that is the best bet.

I apologize for posting in the wrong place.
David

[Larks]

David, if Integrain is available to you I can highly recomend it for your door. I've used it on Syrian Cedar gates and New Guinea rosewood garden wall door as well as balustrades and other external doors under eaves , garden chairs and other bits and pieces and they look great and the finish is lasting very well .

[David G]

The details are scant because I was cheating: My question is not boat related (except that I always think about boats and I think a boatman's experience is relevant.)
I've built a nice large Japanese-style door out of western red cedar for a client. The door has accents of walnut, red oak, and yellow pine. The door faces North and is shielded by a very large (5-foot) overhand. It is also at least eight inches above grade. It will be installed in southern New Hampshire. Neither I nor the clients want a shiny (varnish or urethane) finish. Owners are happy to do a once-a-year rub down with teak oil, if that is the best bet.

I apologize for posting in the wrong place.
David

F - no apologies necessary. Good to know what we're really dealing with, though. In a lot of ways this application is, indeed, like a marine one. You won't have a lot of saltwater in the mix, but in all other ways it'll be quite similar.

You're scaring me. A large, Western Red Cedar exterior door? With some hardwood accents? OK, nevermind, you didn't ask about that. Finishes, that's what we're addressing (mutter, grump, mutter).

Finishes for exterior doors have long been a bugaboo for professional painters. For longevity sake, the best finish is opaque, and the glossier the better. But you don't want paint, you want clear. Then my choice would be a traditional spar varnish, the glossier the better. That won't work for two reasons. First, that's not what the clients want. Second, putting a hard finish over a very soft wood like WRC is setting the finish film up to fail. Kinda like a hard-boiled egg... any bump and the inside gives, leaving the shell to fracture. Once the film is compromised, moisture comes in, accelerating the failure of the finish.

OK, so we're down to oils. I lived in Manchester for 4 years, so I know the climate. Rain, snow, sun, humidity, lotso UV. Hard on a door! Thank goodness for that overhang. You've created a dilema: the more matte you make it, the less protection there'll be, and the more often the finish will have to be renewed.

So - with all that in mind, I'll offer several thoughts. First - I've no personal experience with Deks Olje, but this might be an application for it. Keep in mind that the rumour is it's going off the market. Second - I used Daly's Seafin oil in a similar (not quite as demanding) application, and it's holding up fine so far (after 3 years, and no refreshing). The overall look, composition & consistency would probably be very like the homebrew suggested by hansp77. Third - I'm betting that straight Tung Oil would work just fine. No mixing, just need to find some real 100% tung oil - the labels can be misleading. Fourth - and I know this isn't what you were asking for - if it were me... I'd use a good spar varnish. First, though, I'd give the whole door a liberal soak with Smith's CPES. I'm not normally a big fan of thinned, penetrating epoxies, but the CPES would probably penetrate just enough to consolidate the surface of that soft cedar so as to allow putting a hard finish on it without the boiled egg fracturing problem. Fifth - I don't know the circumstances, but on a professional level I try not to start a project without knowing exactly what finish goes on it. Finish is one component of the system, and the components should - if at all possible - be planned to work together. Sixth - WRC? For a front door? Really? This is boggling me.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

"Where passion leads or prudence points the way" -- Robert Lowth

[SaltyD from BC]

SaltyD -- How in earth can you recommend a finish for an unknown wood-like substance, stored in an unknown location, exposed to unknown amounts of UV / rain / water, etc? Watco might work on the interior of a marine ply kayak stored indoors, but not so good on the exterior of a fir over oak 50' trawler in Alaska, right?

We're only out of line when we start asking stuff like, "What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

Just rackin on you guys Thorne ;) And, there's general advice. And detailed advice.

So in the general advice colum I'll still say that I've had good luck with Watco with limited experience. This is on small wooden cleats only on a boat in the elements year round here. By good luck I mean total saturation of the cleats when installed to begin with held up for a year at which time I was fully prepared to and did add a bunch more coats. Which is what I'd expect to do with an oil only finish.

Mind you this is on yew wood so maybe that's part of the reason. And it doesn't get real hot up here. But very wet in the winter.

Thanks for the other ideas guys..

[SchoonerRat]

I like a hand rubbed finish for wood that is basically "out of the elements". I mix 3 parts turp, 2 parts boiled linseed, 1 part spar varnish. Flood the wood and rub with 400 or 600 wet or dry sandpaper, then wipe off the excess with a clean rag. Allow to dry for 6 or 8 hours then repeat. Use a minimum of 10 coats, more if you're patient. Can be recoated at any time with a minimum of prep work if not allowed to go bad.

Never tried this with WRC, but works well with oak, mahogany, teak.

[Bob Cleek]

"Teak oil?" Total BS. All of that crap sold as "this or that oil" is essentially the same: linseed oil, some turpentine to thin and ease penetration, maybe some UV sheilding component in the expensive stuff, and perhaps a mildew retardant (tributyltin). You want to pay a lot more and avoid mixing your own, be my guest. All have the same drawbacks. Oil on exterior weathering surfaces looks good for a short while and then turns to crap. I know, I was suckered into trying it once on teak. Experience proves there's only two finishes for exterior brightwork, a decent exterior gloss spar varnish, or nothing at all. Oil is for furniture, not boats. Take a poll if you don't believe me... I don't know anybody who's tried oil and been satisfied after the first couple of months. If you want to join us, be my guest.

[Larks]

"I don't know anybody who's tried oil and been satisfied after the first couple of months. If you want to join us, be my guest.

Maybe I'm the exception then, I'm still very happy with the exterior Integrain finish after 2 years in full weather (on gates) in SE Queensland where there are full extremes of sun, heat and rain (and cold by my sensitive warm climate conditioned standards). The gates are slatted Syrian Cedar (for weight) on a steel frame and the finish still looks terrific. Likewise with verandah ballustrade rails in merbau.

I'd offer to take some pics but am in Darwin at the moment, back home again in three weeks if you'd like me to get some and post them to give you an idea of the finish for your door.

[SaltyD from BC]

I for one would like to see pics :)

[David G]

Maybe I'm the exception then, I'm still very happy with the exterior Integrain finish after 2 years in full weather (on gates) in SE Queensland where there are full extremes of sun, heat and rain (and cold by my sensitive warm climate conditioned standards). The gates are slatted Syrian Cedar (for weight) on a steel frame and the finish still looks terrific. Likewise with verandah ballustrade rails in merbau.

I'd offer to take some pics but am in Darwin at the moment, back home again in three weeks if you'd like me to get some and post them to give you an idea of the finish for your door.

Larks - as far as I've been able to ascertain, the product is not available in the U.S. Do you know what the composition is? Typically all these products consist of: oil; solvent; resin; additives - of various types and in various proportions. Any clues on Integrain? Also, do you have a link?


"When we ask for advice, we are usually looking for an accomplice" -- Francois de la Rochefoucauld

[Larks]

Here is a link to the company web site - it is Australian
http://www.intergrain.com.au/ and there is a link to one of the data sheets in post #5. I've used the decking oil, DWD and Timber oil and have followed their prep' requirements religiously. The only negatives that I've heard from other builders (so far) on any of these products has been in regard to mould developing on decking if the prep' isn't followed (mainly in the wetter areas of the country though).
I'll see if I can get my wife to take and send through some close up pics of some of the jobs I've used these products on
cheers
Greg

[Michael Beckman]

"Teak oil?" Total BS. All of that crap sold as "this or that oil" is essentially the same: linseed oil, some turpentine to thin and ease penetration, maybe some UV sheilding component in the expensive stuff, and perhaps a mildew retardant (tributyltin). You want to pay a lot more and avoid mixing your own, be my guest. All have the same drawbacks. Oil on exterior weathering surfaces looks good for a short while and then turns to crap. I know, I was suckered into trying it once on teak. Experience proves there's only two finishes for exterior brightwork, a decent exterior gloss spar varnish, or nothing at all. Oil is for furniture, not boats. Take a poll if you don't believe me... I don't know anybody who's tried oil and been satisfied after the first couple of months. If you want to join us, be my guest.

Of course, if one doesn't care for the bright aspect of brightwork, oil works great.