John Gardner "Penobscot Salmon Wherry"

[Summersnow]

Hello All,

I've noticed you've got a lot of newbie sailors here, so I should feel right at home having only been a passenger on a couple of sailboats.

My first newbie question (I've got lots) has to do with plans in John Gardner's book "Building Classic Small Craft". On page 183 the lines are included for the Penobscot Salmon Wherry, but no table of offsets. So I found a CAD program for Macintosh and started translating the lines to a CAD drawing. Are there copyright or other legal limitations on such activities? If not, would it be OK to post PDF's of my progress for comment here?

Just a couple of notes: The last time I did a 3 view drawing was in high school in the late 80's, and I've only been looking at boats and boat plans since June. The first building project my executive committee (wife and 3 daughters) will permit me is Bolger's Nymph, but only after I finish remodeling the attic into two bedrooms (about 1 more month to go). Depending on the success of that build, the wherry would be next, after much more reading.

Thanx
Rob

[ToddFwbf]

Not knowing a lot about drawing lines I feel uninhibited about offering a suggestion. Why not build a half-model based on the reproduction of the lines to double check everything, then with lofting you should be OK.

Also, I'd be a little leery of enlarging the image from the book unless you're sure that the publishers carefully kept aspect ratios correct and that your scanner or copier can do the same.

My 2 cents.

Todd

[Thorne]

Welcome to the Forum!

Can't answer your question about copyright for the Gardner design, but hopefully others can. The only issues that I'd be concerned about would be making such drawings publicly available, you should be able to do what you want in the privacy of your own computer.

Always good to have another Mac user aboard...

[TerryLL]

Always good to have another Mac user aboard...


Macs rule!

[Summersnow]

A scale is included with the drawing, so I am not enlarging it with a copy machine. I am lifting dimensions with a pair of dividers, inputing the lines as splines in the CAD program and attempting to fair the lines by eye.

As for aspect ratios, I am not worried about the horizontal measurements because the scale is laid out horizontally. However, you made me realize I needed to compare some of the known vertical measurements (like waterlines) against the scale to check for changes in aspect during publication. They appear very close to accurate, but it is a fairly small drawing, and I am not comfortable with more than about 1/2 inch accuracy on the scale.

Build a half model. I should of thought of that. Thanks.

Rob

[Summersnow]

Well, I was hoping some of the designers who hang out here would chime in. Also, it is not a direct copy I am generating, so I thought a statement giving credit to John Gardner for the original and marking my version as derived from plans given by John Gardner (with page numbers, etc.) would suffice.

An even better option (from my perspective anyway) would be for me to email a PDF copy to a couple of members familiar with this sort of activity for their open comment.

[TerryLL]

Take a look at the copyright notice at the front of the book.

"...no part of this book may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means.....without written permission from the publisher."

That's a pretty all-encompassing prohibition that gives the publisher legal recourse if you use the contents in ways the publisher deems unacceptable. In actual practice, many of the designs in Gardner's books are in the public domain, because the designs evolved over generations of boatbuilders and no single person can claim ownership. I and many others have freely used the designs in Gardner's books to build boats, both for our own use and for commercial sale.

Even though the design might be in the public domain does not mean you can electronically reproduce the page and republish it.

Written permission would be the safe route.

[Rick Tyler]

Macs rule!

Two in one day... religion and politics belong in the bilge.

[Rick Tyler]

My first thought is to find plans or at least offsets. This led me to this promising source: http://www.duck-trap.com/wherries.html. Perhaps they could help you?

[Thorne]

I'll admit that I agree with Rick Tyler. Duck Trap Woodworking has some fantastic plans, boatbuilding books & DVD's for some really lovely plank-on-frame wherries. The Christmas Wherry is my fave.

http://www.duck-trap.com/cwlugsail.jpg


As for those rumours that Steve Jobs is God - they are wrong.

Steve Jobs Names God as Successor

By Brian Briggs (briggsb@bbspot.com)

Cupertino, CA - Rumors about Steve Jobs's health have caused many to wonder who will be his replacement at Apple. Since his return to the company, no clear successor has emerged. Jobs announced today that God would be taking his place when he steps down as CEO of Apple.


"I did an exhaustive search, but no one else was up to the task of replacing me. To tell you the truth, God really isn't either, but he's as close as I'm going to get," said Jobs. "I have no plans of leaving soon, but I want the worries to end."


God said He looked forward to taking over the company as well as help from Steve. "Steve will be close by me soon to help me out if I have any questions. Oops, I probably wasn't supposed to say that. He's going to be fine. Don't worry."

[Summersnow]

Thank you for your help. I will not be sending these private use drawings out for comment, but if I run into one of you, well .... ( I guess I would have to recognize you first, then mob you with questions ... All in good time I guess).

For the time being I might start studying half model construction.

Thanx again,
Rob

[Summersnow]

The Christmas Wherry is the boat which started me looking at these plans to begin with. I started lifting the plans to get an idea of the complexity of the task, and to see if I could draw an orthographic of the plans and get a feel for the way the boat would look. I didn't realize the concept of a "fair curve" would be such a stickler. When (if) I get an orthographic view done, that I will post.

Thanx again,
Rob

[TerryLL]

Two in one day... religion and politics belong in the bilge.
Hey Rick,

I couldn't agree more. But my choice of computer has nothing to do with either religion or politics. It's just another tool, like my Powermatic tablesaw, which also rules, or my Delta bandsaw, which also rules. Macs were mentioned twice in the thread I posted to, and I was simply responding with enthusiasm. Lighten up dude.

[JimConlin]

You might find more on that design at the Ships Plans Dept. at Mystic Seaport.

[boatbear]

Welcome aboard Rob.
I scaled up the plans for my Sea Chanty swampscott dory from the itty bitty lines drawing in Gardner's Dory Book. I did it in a similar way to yours, but by hand. I converted to metric by using a calculator in the first step and drew the plan at 1:10 scale. I was able to fair the lines pretty easily at this scale and then filled in a table of offsets. From there I lofted full size onto sheets of thin chipboard on the shed floor.

I am a proficient Autocad abuser now, but would still do this sort of thing by hand. Spline curves look nice but I have little trust in them. When you are planning to build a boat from wood, a flexible batten that bends like wood is required to get fair curves. Nudging points on a spline is awkward, to say the least.

I suggest that you periodically print your lines drawing and find a flexible batten (I found a length of plastic angle - 12x12x1mm (1/2"x1/2") had just the right stiffness for the task) and check your splines for fairness. Good luck with your plans, and your negotiations with the formidable committee.

[TerryLL]

Hey Rob,

Can you tell us about the CAD program you're using on your Mac to do this line translation. How well is it working, and what's the learning curve on getting proficient with the program?


Also, you can always get feedback on your drawings by emailing them to members instead of posting them openly. There's lots of talent and experience on the forum, though it may take you some time to find it. Boatbear did an exceptional job on his Sea Chanty, and he started with not much more than what you have on the Penobscot Wherry. Don't be shy about asking for advice.

[Ben Fuller]

The drawings in John's book have scales with them and were intended to be lofted before building. The Ames may be available as a regular drawing from Mystic; I don't recall. A redraw is your drawing, and if you loft either by computer or on a table and publish there would be no problem.

Bear in mind that the Salmon Wherries are designed for a load and float pretty high with only one person rowing them.

[Thorne]

You've probably already found these links -

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum//showthread.php?t=10525

http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/detail.php?t=subjects&type=browse&f=subject&s=Wherries&record=0
http://mobius.mysticseaport.org/grabimg.php?wm=1&kv=137252